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  #1  
Old 10-02-2019, 01:18 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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556 or 300 SBR?

My next project, a lightweight SBR w/ can, tuned for sub ammo.
That said, should it be a nato556 or a 300blk?

What say you?
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  #2  
Old 10-02-2019, 01:30 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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If shorter than 11.5 use .300 and always be supersonic or you are wasting the whole point of a rifle round. If you want subsonic build a .45 ACP gun instead since it will have better terminal effect
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:41 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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its really a CQB/SD type of rifle. subs should be ok for this, no?

when you say "11.5" is that w/ or w/o can?

From the sub ammo available, seems like 300blk would be preferred although it will be just under 500ft-lb of muzzle energy.
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  #4  
Old 10-02-2019, 02:00 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by 1911_Kid View Post
its really a CQB/SD type of rifle. subs should be ok for this, no?

when you say "11.5" is that w/ or w/o can?
Without, raw barrel length. Subs are just less effective then pistol rounds is all, plenty of gel tests have been done on it already so if you are going to build a rifle might as well make it a real rifle. A can takes all the bite out anyway, the action slamming is about as loud as the super sonic crack anyway
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  #5  
Old 10-02-2019, 02:09 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Without, raw barrel length. Subs are just less effective then pistol rounds is all, plenty of gel tests have been done on it already so if you are going to build a rifle might as well make it a real rifle. A can takes all the bite out anyway, the action slamming is about as loud as the super sonic crack anyway
so, are you suggesting 556 SBR w/ can using non-sub ammo?
perhaps a 10.5" carbine + can?
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  #6  
Old 10-02-2019, 02:47 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by 1911_Kid View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Without, raw barrel length. Subs are just less effective then pistol rounds is all, plenty of gel tests have been done on it already so if you are going to build a rifle might as well make it a real rifle. A can takes all the bite out anyway, the action slamming is about as loud as the super sonic crack anyway
so, are you suggesting 556 SBR w/ can using non-sub ammo?
perhaps a 10.5" carbine + can?
Yup, or blackout if you want really really good close in power. My .300 SBR is an 8 inch and it kills 3-500lb hogs with ease with most hits resulting in an instant stop
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  #7  
Old 10-02-2019, 03:36 PM
VoceNoctum VoceNoctum is offline
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300blk if you want the option of sub or super, but if they even make subsonic 5.56, you wouldn't want it.

You could build a 300blk gun, with a .30cal QD silencer (like Deadair SandmanS or such). If you then don't like the caliber, you can remove the barrel, buy a 5.56 barrel and mount and use basically every other part from the first build (including 30 cal silencer) on the new build.

A 300blk subsonic is similar power level to a 45 acp, but with better bullet design for distance and it's quieter due to less gas. You also then have the supersonic option which is a proper rifle round.
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  #8  
Old 10-02-2019, 03:46 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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Originally Posted by VoceNoctum View Post
300blk if you want the option of sub or super, but if they even make subsonic 5.56, you wouldn't want it.

You could build a 300blk gun, with a .30cal QD silencer (like Deadair SandmanS or such). If you then don't like the caliber, you can remove the barrel, buy a 5.56 barrel and mount and use basically every other part from the first build (including 30 cal silencer) on the new build.

A 300blk subsonic is similar power level to a 45 acp, but with better bullet design for distance and it's quieter due to less gas. You also then have the supersonic option which is a proper rifle round.
if its a form-1 SBR how can you just switch uppers? the ATF info seems to say you can't do that.

if i go wylde chamber i would just use std 223/556 ammo.
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  #9  
Old 10-02-2019, 03:58 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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Yup, or blackout if you want really really good close in power. My .300 SBR is an 8 inch and it kills 3-500lb hogs with ease with most hits resulting in an instant stop
8" pistol gas.
would you do 10.5" in pistol gas too?
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  #10  
Old 10-02-2019, 04:13 PM
EL Perdido EL Perdido is offline
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Originally Posted by 1911_Kid View Post
8" pistol gas.
would you do 10.5" in pistol gas too?
No
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  #11  
Old 10-02-2019, 04:17 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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No
not even for .300 subs?
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  #12  
Old 10-02-2019, 04:30 PM
remanaz remanaz is offline
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I am no expert in gas ports or barrel making or heck even building these things. I have built 9 of them and know what worked for me. I have both a 10.5" and a 9" both are pistol gas ports. Both work well for both subs and supers. I go with what the barrel manufacturer felt was appropriate. I bet you can find many examples of both configs working for both subs and supers.
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  #13  
Old 10-02-2019, 04:35 PM
EL Perdido EL Perdido is offline
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Originally Posted by 1911_Kid View Post
not even for .300 subs?
Disregard, I thought you were talking 5.56 in 10.5 length
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  #14  
Old 10-02-2019, 06:52 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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I normally build the gas system for super only so the recoil is as low as possible and the gun has no cycling issues. You can fire subs but you will need to hand cycle the bolt or have an adjustable and big gas port.
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  #15  
Old 10-02-2019, 07:22 PM
WalterGC WalterGC is offline
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Love this thread! I'm learning sooooooo much!!
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  #16  
Old 10-02-2019, 07:46 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Buy a 30 Cal suppressor and do both. All it's going to cost you is another upper.
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  #17  
Old 10-02-2019, 07:46 PM
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STORM2 STORM2 is online now
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Just remember owning an SBR is like donating an organ. There is no escape button. It’s worth 20% of what you have in it BEFORE your stamp arrives and that would take a year to recover IF you found a buyer. We own two and wish we had done it different.
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  #18  
Old 10-03-2019, 06:25 AM
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Faawrenchbender Faawrenchbender is offline
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A registered lower is worth about $100. Its the same value that a new quality lower receiver sells for. There is no great value lost if one decides to sell.

As far as the topic at hand, not taking cost of ammunition into play, a .300 BO would be a more effective SBR. 9” is the sweet spot for the caliber.
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  #19  
Old 10-03-2019, 08:22 AM
M-Peltier M-Peltier is offline
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Originally Posted by 1911_Kid View Post
if its a form-1 SBR how can you just switch uppers? the ATF info seems to say you can't do that.

if i go wylde chamber i would just use std 223/556 ammo.
The ATF requires notification for permanent changes to the registered specifications. Swapping an upper (and still retaining the original upper) is not a permanent change. Some examiners recommend written notification to the existence of additional uppers, but there is no legal requirement to date that I have found. Do what you feel comfortable with, but I personally have no reservations about having multiple uppers for a single SBR lower.

wylde chamber = any 223/5.56 ammo
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  #20  
Old 10-03-2019, 11:04 AM
smarcus smarcus is offline
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For subs 8-9 inch 300BO is the only way to go. Plus you can use supers like the Barnes 110 black tip supers when needed. But unless you reload the ammo is going to be exspenve and that may mean it doesn't get used much.

For a general purpose SBR I like an 11.5 inch 5.56. Specifically I went with a KAC CQB 11.5 MOD 2. Subsonic 5.56 is really just .22 rimfire so it makes no sense to build a 5.56 for subs. (I also have a 8.2 inch 300BO and an 11 inch 6.5 Grendel, and 10.5 inch 9mm)
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  #21  
Old 10-03-2019, 11:07 AM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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Originally Posted by smarcus View Post
For subs 8-9 inch 300BO is the only way to go. Plus you can use supers like the Barnes 110 black tip supers when needed. But unless you reload the ammo is going to be exspenve and that may mean it doesn't get used much.

For a general purpose SBR I like an 11.5 inch 5.56. Specifically I went with a KAC CQB 11.5 MOD 2. Subsonic 5.56 is really just .22 rimfire so it makes no sense to build a 5.56 for subs. (I also have a 8.2 inch 300BO and an 11 inch 6.5 Grendel, and 10.5 inch 9mm)
I am thinking 10.5" wylde carbine w/ a can.
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Old 10-03-2019, 02:58 PM
VoceNoctum VoceNoctum is offline
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Just remember owning an SBR is like donating an organ. There is no escape button. Itís worth 20% of what you have in it BEFORE your stamp arrives and that would take a year to recover IF you found a buyer. We own two and wish we had done it different.
The engraving might lower value a little bit, but otherwise you can simply return the firearm to pistol or rifle configuration and sell it as such. It is advisable, but not required, to notify ATF that you are removing it from the registry and a return letter is always handy.

It's not a machinegun.

An AR15, just toss the receiver in the safe for future SBRness, or whatever since they're worthless anyway.

But, like my Beretta ARX100. I filed a EForm1 to make it a SBR. Once approved, I put the 10" barrel in it. If I want to make it a non-SBR rifle once again, I slap the 16" rifle in it and it's not an SBR anymore. I could sell that rifle if I felt like it, and it'd be just like any other rifle, not an SBR. If someone wanted to make it an SBR again, they would need to form1 again. (Or I could sell it via form4 as an SBR if desired.)
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  #23  
Old 10-03-2019, 05:22 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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any objections to a 10.5" 223-wylde 1:8 carbine w/ can?

any compelling reason to not use 1:8 and use a 1:7 ?
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:36 PM
Hawkeye fan Hawkeye fan is offline
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any objections to a 10.5" 223-wylde 1:8 carbine w/ can?

any compelling reason to not use 1:8 and use a 1:7 ?
I don't have any objections.

My SBR is a .223 Wylde, 11.85" and 1:8 twist barrel.

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  #25  
Old 10-03-2019, 10:36 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911_Kid View Post
any objections to a 10.5" 223-wylde 1:8 carbine w/ can?

any compelling reason to not use 1:8 and use a 1:7 ?
I don't have any objections.

My SBR is a .223 Wylde, 11.85" and 1:8 twist barrel.

Nice, man you are making it really hard to avoid getting a second upper from LWRC for a "pistol" build after seeing how nicely setup your guns are. I kinda want a real short one too since my "pistols" are .300 and a 5.56 version has appeal to me
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