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  #26  
Old 05-11-2020, 07:31 AM
Starship Enterpris Starship Enterpris is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
BTW speaking of Chuck Taylor, here is an excellent video with words of wisdom from someone who really knew his s---.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iryhgwFXrp0
Absolutely one of the best firearms videos I have ever seen. I did not realize what an intelligent, well-spoken and humble man he was.

Thank you very much for posting that, sir.
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  #27  
Old 05-11-2020, 08:40 AM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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Nobody reads anymore. The two best magazine columns ever, were "Cooper's Commentaries," at the back of every Guns & Ammo, and Ed Zern's "Exit Laughing" at the back of every Field & Stream.

Best part of the '80's & '90's for me.
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  #28  
Old 05-11-2020, 09:49 AM
Old Grey Hare Old Grey Hare is offline
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Originally Posted by The War Wagon View Post
Nobody reads anymore. The two best magazine columns ever, were "Cooper's Commentaries," at the back of every Guns & Ammo, and Ed Zern's "Exit Laughing" at the back of every Field & Stream.

Best part of the '80's & '90's for me.
Oh, people read. I bet more people read this dreck https://www.mediamatters.org/nationa...ending-slavery

than they do any of today's gun rags or gun blogs.

I had no idea the left had such a dim view of the good Colonel.

Then again, I don't go out of my way to read leftist drivel.
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  #29  
Old 05-11-2020, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
I know this is a tread about Jeff Cooper, but two of Taylor's comments were spot on - the one about not relying on your hardware to make up for a lack of software (i.e. correct mindset), and also the one about competition shooters really not knowing all that much about real-life combat, no matter how good they may be on the competitive circuit.

I would think Jeff Cooper would've agreed on both points. And yes, definitely the last one as well.
I think the founder of the Southwest Combat Pistol League, and International Practical Shooting Confederation, would believe there was "real life" value in shooting competition?
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  #30  
Old 05-11-2020, 10:27 AM
tipoc tipoc is offline
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I think the founder of the Southwest Combat Pistol League, and International Practical Shooting Confederation, would believe there was "real life" value in shooting competition?
The two things are not in contradiction.

Cooper was a central founder of modern competitive shooting. After the founding of IPSC Cooper, and others, began to note the tendency of of the sport to become more and more an equipment race. Meaning that the emphasis was for speed and the guns, holster, ammo pouches belts, etc. became more geared to that speed in a competitive arena and less about practical day to day techniques, situations guns and gear. So they formed IDPA to try to restore some of that to the competitive field. Cooper also promoted his school from which many others grew.

Now that divergence was in many ways inevitable. Cooper and others recognized that but also wanted a solid foundation for shooters to learn day to day practical skills with the hone of competition to test those skills.

I don't usually carry a 5" or 6" compensated pistol, with optics attached and a speed rig with four or five competitive mag pouches attached to a belt with me when I go out to a movie. There are different skill sets.

tipoc
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  #31  
Old 05-11-2020, 10:45 AM
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Rob Leatham said in a recent interview that IPSC competition was created as a way to improve combat shooting techniques in a competitive environment as opposed to having to have people actually kill one another. That is definitely true. I think where competitive shooting lost its way (and not just with IPSC and IDPA... even cowboy action shooting has gone down this rabbit hole) is the fact that in the end it's just a game, and too many people get into it for the sake of the game and it devolves into playing to win, instead of developing life-saving skills. As a result the equipment changes and soon any semblance of reality disappears. That's why we are now stuck with exotic IPSC race guns that look like something Han Solo would use, as well as tricked-out CAS single-actions where competitors just thumb super-light hammers and shoot spit wads at steel targets ten feet in front of them.
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  #32  
Old 05-11-2020, 11:29 AM
Snapping Twig Snapping Twig is offline
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Loved reading their material!

I had to reread JC and EK every so often owing to their way of speaking, but at the end of the day I understood.

JC made the color code. Brilliant!

If I had to choose a favorite, it was Skeeter. I absolutely counted the days until the latest rag was available to read his stories.

I even developed a 44Spl load in his honor, less than his load but way more than factory, butter smooth and hard hitting.
The Snapper load is 6.5g W231/HP38 under a 250g Keith/SWC. Give it a try, see if you don't agree.
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  #33  
Old 05-11-2020, 11:47 AM
tipoc tipoc is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
Rob Leatham said in a recent interview that IPSC competition was created as a way to improve combat shooting techniques in a competitive environment as opposed to having to have people actually kill one another. That is definitely true. I think where competitive shooting lost its way (and not just with IPSC and IDPA... even cowboy action shooting has gone down this rabbit hole) is the fact that in the end it's just a game, and too many people get into it for the sake of the game and it devolves into playing to win, instead of developing life-saving skills. As a result the equipment changes and soon any semblance of reality disappears. That's why we are now stuck with exotic IPSC race guns that look like something Han Solo would use, as well as tricked-out CAS single-actions where competitors just thumb super-light hammers and shoot spit wads at steel targets ten feet in front of them.
True.
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  #34  
Old 05-11-2020, 12:48 PM
kwo51 kwo51 is offline
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I have a foot tall stack of SWAT mags I still read .I like Louis Awerbusk's writing also . We need less expensive local classes . It would be nice to go spend $1ooo for a week in the desert but not in the budget. All these men will be missed.

Last edited by kwo51; 05-11-2020 at 12:51 PM.
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  #35  
Old 05-11-2020, 02:23 PM
Huski92 Huski92 is offline
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Wish I would have taken a class when he was there. Missed opportunity b


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  #36  
Old 05-11-2020, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Old Grey Hare View Post
I had no idea the left had such a dim view of the good Colonel.
I'm quite certain the good Colonel couldn't have cared less what the leftists thought about him, especially since he rightly knew they are the enemy of a free USA. Like a wise man once said, if you have enemies then it means you actually stood up for something.
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  #37  
Old 05-11-2020, 02:42 PM
Old Grey Hare Old Grey Hare is offline
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I'm not worried about what *he* thought of *them*, I'm worried about what that kind of leftist writing does to their vast audience of 'believe-anything-we-tell-you' lemmings.

Y'know, the ones that later go on and vote.

That's what I'm worried about. The brainwashing.

I know he didn't hold the left in any kind of favorable light, and viewed them as what they are -- a threat. I don't have photographic memory but I have retained some measure of what he wrote in the 80's.
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Last edited by Old Grey Hare; 05-11-2020 at 02:43 PM. Reason: typo fix
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  #38  
Old 05-11-2020, 02:54 PM
SpringerXD SpringerXD is offline
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My favorite Col. Cooper quote:

"As we used to teach in the spook business, carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you."

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  #39  
Old 05-11-2020, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Old Grey Hare View Post
I'm not worried about what *he* thought of *them*, I'm worried about what that kind of leftist writing does to their vast audience of 'believe-anything-we-tell-you' lemmings.

Y'know, the ones that later go on and vote.

That's what I'm worried about. The brainwashing.

I know he didn't hold the left in any kind of favorable light, and viewed them as what they are -- a threat. I don't have photographic memory but I have retained some measure of what he wrote in the 80's.
The left already considers all of us gun owning conservatives to be a bunch of racist, misogynistic inbreds. Cooper simply didn't ever try to hide his feelings for the sake of political correctness. I didn't particularly agree with a lot of things he said, especially when he went on his anti-minority or anti-female rants. However I respected his right to say it, no matter how abrasive or "offensive" it may have been. You cannot have a free country with open expression of ideas and at the same time penalize or ostracize people who say things you don't particularly like. Either we have freedom of speech in this country or we don't.
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  #40  
Old 05-11-2020, 03:15 PM
Jimboinwv Jimboinwv is offline
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Thanks for such a great thread...I’m sorry I missed Mr. Cooper’s birthday...in so many ways, my Dad and Mr. Cooper are the reason I’m a “gun guy”...this conversation made me go find something...let me share it with you...




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  #41  
Old 05-11-2020, 03:22 PM
PBag PBag is offline
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Jeff Cooper was a gentleman
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  #42  
Old 05-11-2020, 03:32 PM
rliebeck rliebeck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
My favorite Col. Cooper quote:

"As we used to teach in the spook business, carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you."

That is the greatest quote of All Time!
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  #43  
Old 05-11-2020, 03:38 PM
rliebeck rliebeck is offline
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One of my greatest regrets in life is that I never got to meet Jeff Cooper. I did finally get to train at Gunsite in 2017, after dreaming about it since 1979. It was a great experience -- but -- not the "Cooper" experience. I did get to meet and train under Chuck Taylor (many years ago), and I will always treasure the experience.
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  #44  
Old 05-11-2020, 04:37 PM
Rock185 Rock185 is offline
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I met the Coopers in '80 when I was at Gunsite for the 250 class, and again when I went back a year later for the 499. The Colonel was quite a guy, out on the range every day. He wasn't bashful about squaring us away if we weren't doing something quite right. And I'll never forget how gracious Janelle was when we all went up to the sconce after the shoot offs on Saturday.
Chuck Taylor was our main instructor for the 250, and Clint Smith for the 499. I'll never regret having met and trained with those folks.
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  #45  
Old 05-11-2020, 04:39 PM
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What on Earth was he trying to do in that pic? Take out a tactical squirrel???
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  #46  
Old 05-11-2020, 05:36 PM
Rock185 Rock185 is offline
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dsk, Probably just demonstrating that shooting situations might not always occur on level ground. In LE, I was sometimes on or over fences, and came close to getting my back side shot off a fence one night
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  #47  
Old 05-11-2020, 05:43 PM
Jimboinwv Jimboinwv is offline
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That is the back cover of the book...he has climbed/jumped over those two boards tacked to the tree at one end...you probably fired that station from behind them...and someone with a camera thought that would make a great picture...
And had he been shooting at a squirrel, my money would have been on him making the shot.


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  #48  
Old 05-11-2020, 06:33 PM
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I attended the "free submachine gun class" (exactly as advertised) at Front Sight, and regardless of what you think of that enterprise, the founder told the assembled of attending a class at Gunsite; he shows up dressed head to toe in camo, wearing a Desert Eagle in a shoulder holster, and when Cooper saw him, he asked one of the instructors to, "Take that gentleman outside and get him squared away."
Man, was that funny, for anyone, like me, who'd been reading Cooper since the '70s.
Actually, one of the first articles of Cooper's that I read was in Road & Track magazine; he used to campaign a Porsche 356, I think, back in the day.
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  #49  
Old 05-11-2020, 06:45 PM
Starship Enterpris Starship Enterpris is offline
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Yes, the PERSONALITY (combat chiropractor) was in my 250. A couple of times a day there's a brass call. This johnson would always go under the overhang and hydrate while the rest of the class (mostly LE0 worked policing up the brass in the sun.

One of the instructors told johnson to go and do his share of the work. Hie reply was "that's what we have cops for". This was over heard and disseminated.


I wonder if he ever did figure out why his gucci range bag stank so much.

Could it be because every cop on the line took turns peeing on it?


Nah, not possible.

Last edited by Starship Enterpris; 05-11-2020 at 06:53 PM.
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  #50  
Old 05-11-2020, 06:59 PM
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Cooper simply didn't ever try to hide his feelings for the sake of political correctness. I didn't particularly agree with a lot of things he said...
If the leftist rag had asked Cooper why he said all of those non-PC things, they would still have branded his explanations racist etc. But, he would have been right, at the heart of the matter, on most of his observations.

I could defend my statement with a bit of Southern African history. To fully explain, and dare I say, justify some of Cooper's statements. But that large can of worms would deviate from the point of this thread. I leave with a rhetorical question about whether those counties have flourished or faltered, since their liberation. Most of us know the answer. That does not mean we support slavery. And neither did Cooper.
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