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  #76  
Old 05-22-2019, 12:17 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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Originally Posted by HT77 View Post
Why do you think the Constitution supports the right of Congress to subpoena someone's tax returns just because they hope they can find something to politicize?
It really isn't up for a vote nor does it matter what I think about it.

I think you have to look at why congress put it in the tax code, not why anyone would think what they would do with that authority. Clearly up to congress (elected by the citizens) to decide. Not up to the president to decide either, probably why it was written the way it was.

Quote:
Section 6103(f)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code (IRC) reads:

Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary [of the Treasury] shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.
That's going to be a hard one to maneuver around.
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  #77  
Old 05-22-2019, 12:27 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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Originally Posted by GunBugBit View Post
If you think Hildy has nothing to hide, you are very naïve.
The Clinton foundation has already been investigated by congress. It's still in operation. Whether or not she has something to hide I wouldn't know. I don't know if Trump has anything to hide either, but I think we're aboot to find out. eh.
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  #78  
Old 05-22-2019, 01:00 PM
HT77 HT77 is offline
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Originally Posted by LostintheOzone View Post
It really isn't up for a vote nor does it matter what I think about it.

I think you have to look at why congress put it in the tax code, not why anyone would think what they would do with that authority. Clearly up to congress (elected by the citizens) to decide. Not up to the president to decide either, probably why it was written the way it was.



That's going to be a hard one to maneuver around.
Not really. There are court cases that limit Congressional demands such as this to something that is a legitimate purpose of Congress. Fishing for things that can be used by the media to create a political controversy likely doesn't qualify for that. Trump is properly challenging the subpoena because this would be a dangerous precedent.
  #79  
Old 05-22-2019, 02:01 PM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
Congress should see his returns to determine if he is under foreign influence. The state of New York should see his returns and review them for potential tax evasion on his properties. His statement regarding releasing his returns when an IRS audit was complete was a lie. Now the goalposts have been moved by stating the election proved that no one cares about his tax returns. That too is a lie.

For a guy with nothing to hide, he sure is spending a lot of time and effort preventing the IRS from releasing those returns......and there's only one explaination for that behavior. He knows that what's in that tax return is the end of his presidency. There is no other reason. It now appears as though he'll have to proclaim "Executive Privilege" in order to prevent their release. He will do so as the alternative scares him more than the public and legislative backlash from him claiming executive privilege.
Ha, with all the people in the IRS and many of them lefties. If there was anything of substance it would have been leaked a long time ago.

And talk about moving the "Goal Post" the Lefty swore up and down that Mueller was their man and they had so much confidence in him. Well, they didn't like the conclusion's, so let's call a "do over".

On the House investigation, POTUS just went through almost 3 years of being investigated and should tell the House to Go bleep themselves just like he is doing (Mueller's crew was all angry democrats and if there as anything there it would have been uncovered). The Lefty's are just doing it to continue the witch hunt with no basis. Let them fight it out in court, POTUS would be a fool to "willingly" play a part in the Lefty's political theater at this point.

These people are animal's looking for financial record's (which have absolutely NOTHING to do with his presidency) not only about POTUS, but his kids, and his freaking grandchildren! They need to me fought by any and all legal mean's.

Not for nothing my friend but you sound just like Nancy P. She said the same thing today "he is covering something up". That is your right of course, but be careful what you wish for. It is not going to happen, but the end of Trump will be a guaranteed Lefty Pres. in 2020, possibly loosing the senate, and in the worse case the end of the Republican party for some years. Say goodbye to your guns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HT77 View Post
So you think the IRS, with nearly unlimited resources, isn't enough to scrutinize his tax returns? I guess you also believe that the Mueller investigation was so limited in scope that what Congress is now doing, misrepresenting the Mueller report to justify another witch hunt, is reasonable and legitimate. Justin Amash, is that you?
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Last edited by combat auto; 05-22-2019 at 02:37 PM.
  #80  
Old 05-22-2019, 03:39 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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Originally Posted by HT77 View Post
Not really. There are court cases that limit Congressional demands such as this to something that is a legitimate purpose of Congress. Fishing for things that can be used by the media to create a political controversy likely doesn't qualify for that. Trump is properly challenging the subpoena because this would be a dangerous precedent.
All this may be mute. NY just passed a law to turn over Trump's tax returns to congress if they ask for them. So now he has another front to defend. He can sue the NY state legislature but it wouldn't be based on a violation of any law. They wrote the law and the governor said he will pass it.

Federal law says the IRS can't disclose a person's tax record to anyone but congress but we aren't dealing with federal law here.
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Last edited by LostintheOzone; 05-22-2019 at 04:18 PM.
  #81  
Old 05-22-2019, 04:04 PM
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LW McVay LW McVay is offline
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The Trumphaters here are just pathetic.
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  #82  
Old 05-22-2019, 04:21 PM
HT77 HT77 is offline
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Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post
The Trumphaters here are just pathetic.
I don't understand their point. Do they actually take people like Nadler and Pelosi and their media associates as anything but partisan political hacks? Nobody could be that stupid. What do they think will happen with gun rights if Trump is replaced by a Democrat?
  #83  
Old 05-22-2019, 04:39 PM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is offline
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Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post
The Trumphaters here are just pathetic.
It’s a smaller demonstration and denial of the bigger objective picture, that They just can’t accept his success as POTUS. It’s a shame to think how much farther this country could be if the left would rather spontaneously combust than work to accomplish anything good for the people and this country.
  #84  
Old 05-22-2019, 04:44 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
Congress should see his returns to determine if he is under foreign influence. The state of New York should see his returns and review them for potential tax evasion on his properties. His statement regarding releasing his returns when an IRS audit was complete was a lie. Now the goalposts have been moved by stating the election proved that no one cares about his tax returns. That too is a lie.

For a guy with nothing to hide, he sure is spending a lot of time and effort preventing the IRS from releasing those returns......and there's only one explaination for that behavior. He knows that what's in that tax return is the end of his presidency. There is no other reason. It now appears as though he'll have to proclaim "Executive Privilege" in order to prevent their release. He will do so as the alternative scares him more than the public and legislative backlash from him claiming executive privilege.
I don't know what's in Trump's tax returns and neither does anyone except the IRS. To date all presidential candidates have released their tax returns except Trump. I think they all knew that if they didn't nobody would trust them enough to vote for them, which makes sense. Trump proved that it could be done except now it's tough sledding.

I'm thinking Trump made a terrible mistake by even running for president. I think he's put his family business in jeopardy. Before he ran for president nobody cared how much money he had or how he made it. Now they're going to leave no stone unturned looking for abnormalities in his business finances and tax records. Now that will truly be a witch hunt for anything they can use to impeach him. Once impeached he's done, his brand is tarnished, he won't be re elected, his businesses will fail and his family will suffer.

Clinton was lucky he was impeached in his second term.
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Last edited by LostintheOzone; 05-22-2019 at 04:54 PM.
  #85  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:02 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Originally Posted by HT77 View Post
So you think anyone who has a business with some foreign income should have to bare themselves naked and surrender their rights as a citizen in order to be in public office? So if someone has a mutual fund with income from a foreign source, does that count too? Where were you during the Obama years?
What I think doesn't matter. What does matter is the Constitution and the emoluments clause.

Anyone with a security clearance gets their lives laid bare. That's why Jarod Kushner and his wife were initially DENIED a security clearance, yet daddy Trump came to the rescue.

Where was I when Obama was in office??? Obama released his tax returns, so the emoluments clause was never an issue.
  #86  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:06 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
Ha, with all the people in the IRS and many of them lefties. If there was anything of substance it would have been leaked a long time ago.

And talk about moving the "Goal Post" the Lefty swore up and down that Mueller was their man and they had so much confidence in him. Well, they didn't like the conclusion's, so let's call a "do over".

On the House investigation, POTUS just went through almost 3 years of being investigated and should tell the House to Go bleep themselves just like he is doing (Mueller's crew was all angry democrats and if there as anything there it would have been uncovered). The Lefty's are just doing it to continue the witch hunt with no basis. Let them fight it out in court, POTUS would be a fool to "willingly" play a part in the Lefty's political theater at this point.

These people are animal's looking for financial record's (which have absolutely NOTHING to do with his presidency) not only about POTUS, but his kids, and his freaking grandchildren! They need to me fought by any and all legal mean's.

Not for nothing my friend but you sound just like Nancy P. She said the same thing today "he is covering something up". That is your right of course, but be careful what you wish for. It is not going to happen, but the end of Trump will be a guaranteed Lefty Pres. in 2020, possibly loosing the senate, and in the worse case the end of the Republican party for some years. Say goodbye to your guns.



IRS employees don't release tax information or leak it at the risk of loosing s cushy govt job.

And if there's nothing to see of any interest in those returns....why is Trump going off the rails to prevent the release of his return??

There's only one reason.
  #87  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:14 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post
The Trumphaters here are just pathetic.
I'm not a Trump hater. I'm a strict constitutionalist. If you knew me, you wouldn't call me a lefty. I've never voted for a Democrat in my 59 yrs. Not once.

What I do is hold politicians accountable for their actions which go against the Constitution and against the law. That holds true for the right or the left.

That my words don't fit the agenda of the right or the left is not my concern. The trouble with politics today is that unless one is in lock step with either party on every single policy point, they're labled as a Pelosi loving lefty or a Trumptard. That's an ignorant partisan view. The truth is in the middle.
  #88  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:19 PM
hlawrencebrown hlawrencebrown is offline
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Without a change in the make up of congress, nothing.
  #89  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:20 PM
HT77 HT77 is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
What I think doesn't matter. What does matter is the Constitution and the emoluments clause.

Anyone with a security clearance gets their lives laid bare. That's why Jarod Kushner and his wife were initially DENIED a security clearance, yet daddy Trump came to the rescue.

Where was I when Obama was in office??? Obama released his tax returns, so the emoluments clause was never an issue.
Who has actually tried to circumvent the Constitution, Trump or the political hacks in the FBI and the rest of the government who misused FISA to create a fake scandal to bring Trump down?
  #90  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:22 PM
T29 T29 is offline
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I mean he could start by not advising agencies that are responsible for law enforcement to just decide things are illegal willy-nilly without any input from congress or legislation.

*ahem* bumpstocks *ahem*

Last edited by T29; 05-22-2019 at 05:25 PM.
  #91  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:35 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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Originally Posted by HT77 View Post
You do understand that Trump was the only GOP candidate that could have won in 2016 and is easily the only GOP candidate that can win in 2020? You actually believe Trump should be accountable for the border crisis when in actuality he is the only President in your lifetime to address it? Meanwhile the Democrats and federal courts have blocked nearly everything he has attempted to do? Wow.
To your first question, yes I understand that. The GOP also understood it. There's about 5 different factions in the GOP and none of them play well together. To illustrate that I don't consider Trump to be a republican. To the second question, I don't have an opinion so I'll give you that one also.

I don't blame the president for the border crisis other than not being able to do a damn thing about it even with a GOP congress. The wall wasn't popular with the GOP congress and it still isn't. I'm not in favor of spending 20 billion on a wall when the entire immigration system is broke. More barrier in some areas will help but there are other problems just as big. Where I see the president failing is he isn't willing to compromise on any aspect of immigration reform. Build the wall or nothing he says.......so we have nothing while 100K cross every month. The ex DHS director told Trump what needed to be done and he fired her for her trouble.

Trump addressed it but so far it's been a big nothing burger.
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  #92  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:39 PM
HT77 HT77 is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
I'm not a Trump hater. I'm a strict constitutionalist. If you knew me, you wouldn't call me a lefty. I've never voted for a Democrat in my 59 yrs. Not once.

What I do is hold politicians accountable for their actions which go against the Constitution and against the law. That holds true for the right or the left.

That my words don't fit the agenda of the right or the left is not my concern. The trouble with politics today is that unless one is in lock step with either party on every single policy point, they're labled as a Pelosi loving lefty or a Trumptard. That's an ignorant partisan view. The truth is in the middle.
When we have one party that is obsessed with ending the Second Amendment, it seems to make sense to be "ignorantly partisan". Harry Truman and JFK are not walking through that door.
  #93  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:55 PM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
I'm not a Trump hater. I'm a strict constitutionalist. If you knew me, you wouldn't call me a lefty. I've never voted for a Democrat in my 59 yrs. Not once.

What I do is hold politicians accountable for their actions which go against the Constitution and against the law. That holds true for the right or the left.

That my words don't fit the agenda of the right or the left is not my concern. The trouble with politics today is that unless one is in lock step with either party on every single policy point, they're labled as a Pelosi loving lefty or a Trumptard. That's an ignorant partisan view. The truth is in the middle.
Mueller and his investigation was ok for the haters, until the report came out; Now it’s not ok or enough. There needs to be a point where enough is enough.
My guess is this lefts obsession with trying to bring down Trump has wasted more money and time than any amount Trump May have avoided in taxes in the past. The collusion/obstruction allegations are flat out ridiculous. They all need to get over it.

Last edited by Plantar5; 05-22-2019 at 05:58 PM.
  #94  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:59 PM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
IRS employees don't release tax information or leak it at the risk of loosing s cushy govt job.

And if there's nothing to see of any interest in those returns....why is Trump going off the rails to prevent the release of his return??

There's only one reason.
People misread POTUS. He doesn't break the law. He is a contract guy from real-estate. Contracts are a manifestation of the rule of law. His taxes are audited almost every year, if he was breaking the law it would have been all over the news since the 80's in the NYC media. He has been famous for a long time and like all successful people the hater's just line up (mostly due to jealousy I suppose). Mueller and his angry democrat team found this out over the last 3 years. POTUS doesn't break the law.

His taxes are under audit almost every year, don't you think the IRS would be smart enough to figure out if he broke the law? Now he may have got a civil penalty through the years because of some process error and had to pay a fine and interest but that is not criminal law. This happens to a lot of American's. And of course I am just saying that is a possibility, I have no knowledge of.

Why should he release his taxes? What does it have to do with his time as POTUS? Nothing. There is nothing in the constitution which says he needs to release his taxes...Moreover, there is zero benefit to himself or any other normal citizen if he releases his taxes. It will only provide fodder to the Lefty-politician's and Press to make up stuff (fake news) or pick out some small anomaly to make a show over.

The more interesting question is: Why do you wish for his demise? As a supporter of 2A what do you expect to gain from his demise?
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Last edited by combat auto; 05-22-2019 at 06:12 PM.
  #95  
Old 05-22-2019, 06:05 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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Originally Posted by HT77 View Post
Who has actually tried to circumvent the Constitution, Trump or the political hacks in the FBI and the rest of the government who misused FISA to create a fake scandal to bring Trump down?
Well, you may have something there. That's another interesting topic. FBI trying to ambush a presidential candidate. AT Lynch giving Hillary a pass when she should have been prosecuted. Serious deep state maneuvering to get Hillary in a position to run. Probably all happened and somebody needs to go to jail.

I'll wait until we get the full report and it should explain why Trump thought the FBI was trying to take him down.
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  #96  
Old 05-22-2019, 06:11 PM
kitchencounsel kitchencounsel is offline
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With regard to the original subject, the very least Trump could do is appoint a strong Constitutionalist justice to the SCOTUS.

If we get the House back and keep the Senate, I'd like to see a National Right to carry, even if it's via some kind of 50-state reciprocity. How the permitless-carry states would be accommodated I'm not sure. Perhaps the sorely neglected Privileges & Immunities clause might cover it.

I'd also like to see suppressors removed from the NFA.

Both of those things have already been raised and have strong support from gun owners, the NRA et. al. so shouldn't be a big deal to get passed (relatively speaking).

Going a little more blue-sky, I'd sure like to see the so-called "sporting use" requirement done away with. It's an extra-constitutional fiction dreamed up by Democrats and ATF bureaucrats, and has no 2A basis whatsoever. If anything, "sporting use" runs directly counter to the meaning and purpose of the 2A.

As to all the blather about tax returns, emoluments clause and so on:

The statutes about revealing tax information, both federal and state, are based on good faith and legitimate need. What the Democrats are trying to do is analogous to a Bill of Attainder and does not fall within the intent of such laws.

As to the Emoluments Clause, the origins of that provision were out of the fear that (early) American ambassadors, diplomats and various officials serving in the European monarchies would be influenced (i.e. bribed or bought) by the bestowing of titles, properties, etc. upon them from a monarch or foreign government. The EC simply does not apply to commercial transactions.
  #97  
Old 05-22-2019, 06:13 PM
Badd72 Badd72 is offline
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It's not just voting for Trump.we need to vote in midterms and get the house back and keep the Senate.the presidential election is going to come down to the same 5 states and me being in Florida which is one of them.Im 48 years old and voting for Trump was the first time I voted in my life.but with all the talk of banning weapons and changing gun laws I will vote in every election from here on out.have any of you read house resolution 1064?the list of guns they want to ban is lengthy and includes every type of firearms.lever action,semiautomatic shotguns,coach guns,of course ar's but it is a long list and it is specific.manufacturer model number and available accessories.if you haven't seen it its worth a look.
  #98  
Old 05-22-2019, 06:13 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
People misread POTUS. He doesn't break the law. He is a contract guy from real-estate. Contracts are a manifestation of the rule of law. His taxes are audited almost every year, if he was breaking the law it would have been all over the news since the 80's in the NYC media. He has been famous for a long time and like all successful people the hater's just line up (mostly due to jealousy I suppose). Mueller and his angry democrat team found this out over the last 3 years. POTUS doesn't break the law.

His taxes are under audit almost every year, don't you think the IRS would be smart enough to figure out if he broke the law? Now he may have got a civil penalty through the years because of some process error and had to pay a fine and interest but that is not criminal law. This happens to a lot of American's. And of course I am just saying that is a possibility, I have no knowledge of.

Why should he release his taxes? What does it have to do with his time as POTUS? Nothing...Moreover, there is zero benefit to himself or any other normal citizen if he releases his taxes. It will only provide fodder to the Lefty-politician's and Press to make up stuff (fake news) or pick out some small anomaly to make a show over.

The more interesting question is: Why do you wish for his demise? As a supporter of 2A what do you expect to gain from his demise?
There's a lot there but personally I won't vote for anyone who won't release their tax return. Should be a requirement to hold office. How am I supposed to know what a candidate has been up to prior to an election? Way too many politicians have turned out to be corrupt scum bags, it kind of runs with the territory. Consider it part of a background check like buying a gun.
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Last edited by LostintheOzone; 05-22-2019 at 06:17 PM.
  #99  
Old 05-22-2019, 06:17 PM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is offline
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Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
People misread POTUS. He doesn't break the law. He is a contract guy from real-estate. Contracts are a manifestation of the rule of law. His taxes are audited almost every year, if he was breaking the law it would have been all over the news since the 80's in the NYC media. He has been famous for a long time and like all successful people the hater's just line up (mostly due to jealousy I suppose). Mueller and his angry democrat team found this out over the last 3 years. POTUS doesn't break the law.

His taxes are under audit almost every year, don't you think the IRS would be smart enough to figure out if he broke the law? Now he may have got a civil penalty through the years because of some process error and had to pay a fine and interest but that is not criminal law. This happens to a lot of American's. And of course I am just saying that is a possibility, I have no knowledge of.

Why should he release his taxes? What does it have to do with his time as POTUS? Nothing...

The more interesting question is: Why do you wish for his demise? As a supporter of 2A what do you expect to gain from his demise?
Correct CA. If he was a crook and a thief the entire country would’ve known it long ago.
If they’re so he// bent on impeaching Trump,,,, WHAT in God’s name should they do to Obama, Hillary, Comey and Lynch who all orchestrated and knew what was going on? What happens to them? The FBI didn’t start it on their own without Obama’s blessing.

Last edited by Plantar5; 05-22-2019 at 06:22 PM.
  #100  
Old 05-22-2019, 06:26 PM
RON K. RON K. is offline
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I really good post... and my take if we are all here in 2024.And i say that seriously after getting finished with that BIG C stuff in 2017 and continue to fight on. So nobody has any guarantee of anything nowadays.. A little dose of reality for those who think otherwise.

If he wins and continues another four years great. If not enjoy what you do everyday and keep on living..And does not a matter one bit what others may say in the grand scheme because if they like you or not. They are on the same pile of dirt we all are on. And they will have it shoveled over them the same way.

They just try and make you think they have all the answer's.ha ha

so four more years or six depending how it goes.
hopefully his health holds out and his mind. For most demon rats. the mind is already gone.so hopefully they will drop off one by one. into the abyss some describe as Hell. RON K.
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