Hi-Power made by Ruger, Springfield, or other? - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-30-2020, 10:33 PM
peacebutready peacebutready is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Southwest U.S.
Posts: 1,330
Hi-Power made by Ruger, Springfield, or other?

Elsewhere online a fellow opined Ruger should start making Hi-Powers. I'm wondering myself if they should. Or Springfield. Or another American or West European manufacturer I'm not thinking right now. What do you all think?

I know there is the Tisas ones made new, though they are from overseas. I don't know how far they lag behind the Browning ones quality wise right before they stopped making them.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-30-2020, 10:51 PM
magnut magnut is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 660
Colt could make a killinn on hi-powers if they would do it. Ruger??? sure why not. Might look like an Arcus though.

Whoever did it would be smart implementing a better beavertail. Seems like everyone hate that on the Hi-power. Maybe do some work on the trigger as well. Also offer it in 40s&w along with 9mm.

Honestly I wish someone would just do a true scaled down 9mm double stack 1911 about the size of a tokarev. Dump the grip safety as well. Or at least offer a solid one piece Mainspring housing grip safety combo.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-30-2020, 10:59 PM
longarm longarm is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: SE Wa
Posts: 683
Colt would immediately jack the price to GB/pandemic-levels and blow their show.

Ruger might be able to manage it, but SA and RIA are all Philippine, iirc.

Have Tisas build them in the US and watch the tears from the big-names.
__________________
==============================
30-06, 45acp, 9mm
"Unintended Consequences"
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 08-30-2020, 11:07 PM
vmr357 vmr357 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 781
I wonder about a couple of things. One, how much trouble would it be to gear up and manufacture the gun. Two, would they still keep the same trigger mechanism. This second point seems to me to be the bigger issues. Everybody is building striker fired guns these days and along with that everyone is talking about trigger reset. With the HP you still would have a hammer and there is almost no sense of reset. Both of these run counter to the new way of doing things.
__________________
Utah, the birthplace of John M. Browning
COTEP#CBOB0471
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-30-2020, 11:15 PM
magnut magnut is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by longarm View Post
Colt would immediately jack the price to GB/pandemic-levels and blow their show.

Ruger might be able to manage it, but SA and RIA are all Philippine, iirc.

Have Tisas build them in the US and watch the tears from the big-names.
Ha Ha.... Colt would build it and the trigger would fail to reset. Remington??? No... they would invent a new way to screw up a Hi-power nobody ever thought about. Taurus would make it ugly and discontinue it even if it sold well. I used to think Bersa should do it but they seem to be going the polymer route now.

Maybe a rifle brand trying to make way into handgun demo... Savage? Its about time Savage enter the handgun market IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-30-2020, 11:24 PM
magnut magnut is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmr357 View Post
I wonder about a couple of things. One, how much trouble would it be to gear up and manufacture the gun. Two, would they still keep the same trigger mechanism. This second point seems to me to be the bigger issues. Everybody is building striker fired guns these days and along with that everyone is talking about trigger reset. With the HP you still would have a hammer and there is almost no sense of reset. Both of these run counter to the new way of doing things.
Well you could do a striker fired polymer hi-power.with a trigger dingus. People would hate it though..."its not a glock" blah, blah, blah.

Lots of people like throwbacks and the hi-power is beloved by a lot of shooters. Those Tisas sold really fast and they had issues...people still snatched them up.

Clean up the trigger and deal with the hammer bite and they would sell like hotcakes. Price wise I think you could set it at 1911 prices as long as the quality is there.

Just dont put a rail on it and try and turn it into some tacticool mostrosity. Its a classy and elegant pistol. Minor improvments are Ok. Get crazy with it and its going to be shunned.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-30-2020, 11:37 PM
longarm longarm is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: SE Wa
Posts: 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnut View Post
Ha Ha.... Colt would build it and the trigger would fail to reset. Remington??? No... they would invent a new way to screw up a Hi-power nobody ever thought about. Taurus would make it ugly and discontinue it even if it sold well. I used to think Bersa should do it but they seem to be going the polymer route now.

Maybe a rifle brand trying to make way into handgun demo... Savage? Its about time Savage enter the handgun market IMO.
Savage made handguns in the Long Ago.. I dunno as it would interest them today.
__________________
==============================
30-06, 45acp, 9mm
"Unintended Consequences"
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-30-2020, 11:38 PM
cwo4uscgret cwo4uscgret is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Midwest
Age: 68
Posts: 3,406
Something to think about - if Browning/FN felt that there was a lot of money to be made manufacturing and selling a Hi-Power they would probably still be pumping them out. I suspect that they would need to re-tool their shop - I mean they've been pumping out their product for a long time.

Also methinks that most American Gun Manufacturers have probably looked into starting up production of a "Hi Power" and said too much money; then toss in the political climate.

If the left gets control of the Congress and the Whitehouse the entire gun world as we know it will be in peril...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-31-2020, 12:12 AM
peacebutready peacebutready is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Southwest U.S.
Posts: 1,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwo4uscgret View Post
Something to think about - if Browning/FN felt that there was a lot of money to be made manufacturing and selling a Hi-Power they would probably still be pumping them out. I suspect that they would need to re-tool their shop - I mean they've been pumping out their product for a long time.

Also methinks that most American Gun Manufacturers have probably looked into starting up production of a "Hi Power" and said too much money; then toss in the political climate.

If the left gets control of the Congress and the Whitehouse the entire gun world as we know it will be in peril...
Browning may not have marketed them well enough in recent years. Also, wasn't the trigger too heavy?

As far as the left getting control, if there was another hi-cap mag capacity limit, the .40 cal version of the Hi-Power had a 10 round mag.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-31-2020, 04:20 AM
glider glider is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,006
I've had 2 browning hi-powers, they really feel good in the hand, probably as good as anything. Problem is they don't shoot worth a damn out of the box. Trigger is terrible and mediocre accuracy. If you care to spend some gunsmith level money on one you can end up with a fine pistol.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-31-2020, 08:30 AM
dmthomp32 dmthomp32 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 205
I agree that it would be really interesting to see Colt or Ruger create a hi power. Like another post mentioned, there are some quarks that if addressed would greatly improve their salability. Fix the hammer/beavertail bite issue, fix the trigger, fix tactile feedback in the manual safety (the two examples I owned were very washy at best), incorporate some modern sights, maybe make the frame thick enough for some grip stippling, checkering or texturizing and that's it! Offer an aluminum frame or steel frame. Send it out with a flush fit 15 round mag. And I feel like they would have a winner. Sell it for $800 baseline up to $1200 feature rich package (night sights, checkering, etc).

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-31-2020, 08:50 AM
TNorris TNorris is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Chicago
Posts: 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacebutready View Post
Browning may not have marketed them well enough in recent years. Also, wasn't the trigger too heavy?
I think Fabrique Nationale saw the new handgun market was going the way of Glock a long time ago and followed the crowd, giving up on improvements to the High Power.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-31-2020, 09:46 AM
KDKSAIL KDKSAIL is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 900
The Hi Power is (and always will be) an absolutely wonderful pistol but...the '..markets..' have moved on. For starters, how many new, single action, semi-automatic pistol designs (as opposed to DA/SA) have come to market in the past 25 years ?? One of the selling points of the Hi Power over the decades was its greater magazine capacity. How many pistol designs have the same or greater magazine capacity these days ?? The Hi Power was an especially robust and durable pistol...but in today's market how many products (including firearms) are now '..disposable..' ??

The Hi Power pistol was--and still is--one of the very finest examples of the art and science of weaponry ever produced (in an industry where '..success..' may be measured in thousands....the Browning Hi Power produced millions for decades) but as with many things unfortunately....its time has passed.

Given that millions of Hi Powers were manufactured and sold during its 70-odd year production run (and the pistol was so robust and durable) there will be a ready supply of first-rate Hi Powers coming onto the resale market for decades. Unlike '..old soldiers..' it ain't gonna' '..just fade away..' anytime soon.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-31-2020, 10:25 AM
15roundsof9 15roundsof9 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 576
Loving this thread.

Would Ruger still put their “Read Instruction Manual” billboard on the slide?

Tisas Regent failed Browning Spring Solutions 5000 round test, several small parts broke. It’s also a cast, not forged gun.

BHP is light for a double stack 9mm, it has trouble with shooting +P rounds. It also needs gunsmith work to reliably feed hollowpoints. The design and finish would be expensive to make - decent 1911 price point.

But it’s a joy to shoot. If someone like Springfield were to work out hollowpoint feed reliability and offer one with a beavertail, I’d snap it up in a little north of $1K price range.

Colt is really best positioned to make a beautifully made BHP and that’s precisely why they won’t.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-31-2020, 10:39 AM
Don Flynn Don Flynn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by 15roundsof9 View Post
Loving this thread.

Would Ruger still put their “Read Instruction Manual” billboard on the slide?

Tisas Regent failed Browning Spring Solutions 5000 round test, several small parts broke. It’s also a cast, not forged gun.

BHP is light for a double stack 9mm, it has trouble with shooting +P rounds. It also needs gunsmith work to reliably feed hollowpoints. The design and finish would be expensive to make - decent 1911 price point.

But it’s a joy to shoot. If someone like Springfield were to work out hollowpoint feed reliability and offer one with a beavertail, I’d snap it up in a little north of $1K price range.

Colt is really best positioned to make a beautifully made BHP and that’s precisely why they won’t.
Don't forget most Mk III HP's used the cast frame introduced for the .40S&W round
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-31-2020, 10:51 AM
longarm longarm is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: SE Wa
Posts: 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by 15roundsof9 View Post
Loving this thread.

Would Ruger still put their “Read Instruction Manual” billboard on the slide?

Tisas Regent failed Browning Spring Solutions 5000 round test, several small parts broke. It’s also a cast, not forged gun.

BHP is light for a double stack 9mm, it has trouble with shooting +P rounds. It also needs gunsmith work to reliably feed hollowpoints. The design and finish would be expensive to make - decent 1911 price point.

But it’s a joy to shoot. If someone like Springfield were to work out hollowpoint feed reliability and offer one with a beavertail, I’d snap it up in a little north of $1K price range.

Colt is really best positioned to make a beautifully made BHP and that’s precisely why they won’t.
I'd much rather several small, cheap parts break in a low[er]-cost clone than major issues. Particularly when BHSS has the parts.

Some of the stories I see in other parts of the forum make me shake my head in disgust. High-end NIB issues... Some Custom issues.. Sending back to the factory?? Seriously?
__________________
==============================
30-06, 45acp, 9mm
"Unintended Consequences"
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-31-2020, 11:42 AM
TNorris TNorris is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Chicago
Posts: 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Flynn View Post
Don't forget most Mk III HP's used the cast frame introduced for the .40S&W round
I believe all MKllls are cast frames. The cast frame was deemed to be stronger and needed for the .40 caliber HP. Adding the drop safety to the slide improved the trigger just a bit, or at least gave it a different feel at the end of the pull. SFS may have been the last FN modification to modernize the High Power. It cured hammer bite, reduced trigger pull a bit and was (I think) an innovation worthy of JMB. It was not universally popular. I bought my first two HPs with SFS factory installed and have added it to 8 more because it makes sense to me.

I sometimes wonder if there will be "Glock Collectors"... and I think not, or they will be extremely rare geeks. My oldest HP is 77 and the next oldest is 70. I expect they will be reliable shooters far longer than I will be!

* I will not add SFS to the 1943 Occupation gun, for historical reasons, but I have added it to the 1950 model.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-31-2020, 11:57 AM
rellascout rellascout is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 1,468
There is absolutely no money in making a BHP in the US. The cost to forge or cast a frame that only holds 15 rounds in todays world vs tactical plastic makes ZERO business sense. The only reason the BHP lasted as long as it did was because of the military and LEO contracts which have now sunsetted. It is now a Glock world. They dominate the pistol world. We too often have a myopic view of the gun world because we have the largest commercial market the real market for firearms is Govt and military. These days Glock and now Sig are dominating the large contract landscape.

People forget that 3 years ago before FN discontinued them BHP sales were at an all time low. They did not sell. I watched NIB sit is a gun store case for 3+ years. The month after they were discontinued it was gone. People want them now because they "can't" have them. It is a classic example of the take back.

The gun world has changed. The BHPs time as a production gun is over. They are just aren't profitable. Think about the cost to tool up to make them. The cost of tooling IIRC was a big reason FN discontinued the gun.

Also tons of bad info in this thread. For example all MKIIIs shoot hollowpoints as well as any other modern handgun. The humped feed ramp on some of the older guns did not feed hollowpoints. Some only required some polishing. Others had to have the hump removed.

Accuracy wise the they are as accurate as most combat handguns of its size. It is more accurate out of the box than 99% of shooters in the world. The trigger sometimes makes it unable to get all the mechanical accuracy from it but it is more than capable.

I will agree that the trigger is over complicated.
__________________
“The 1911 chambered in 45 ACP is the Worlds Finest Close Quarters Sidearm… and...King of feedway stoppages.” -Ken Hackathorn
Not as clumsy or random as a blaster. An elegant weapon... for a more civilized age." —Obi-Wan
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-31-2020, 12:02 PM
rellascout rellascout is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 1,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNorris View Post
I believe all MKllls are cast frames. The cast frame was deemed to be stronger and needed for the .40 caliber HP. Adding the drop safety to the slide improved the trigger just a bit, or at least gave it a different feel at the end of the pull. SFS may have been the last FN modification to modernize the High Power. It cured hammer bite, reduced trigger pull a bit and was (I think) an innovation worthy of JMB. It was not universally popular. I bought my first two HPs with SFS factory installed and have added it to 8 more because it makes sense to me.

I sometimes wonder if there will be "Glock Collectors"... and I think not, or they will be extremely rare geeks. My oldest HP is 77 and the next oldest is 70. I expect they will be reliable shooters far longer than I will be!

* I will not add SFS to the 1943 Occupation gun, for historical reasons, but I have added it to the 1950 model.
Most of the MKIIIs are cast. The early ones have forged frames. FN went to the cast frame because they were setting it up for 40 S&W. They could have made a forged frame that was strong enough but it was cheaper to achieve the same level hardness using casting. FN was always looking to save on production costs. Think Portugal assembly.
__________________
“The 1911 chambered in 45 ACP is the Worlds Finest Close Quarters Sidearm… and...King of feedway stoppages.” -Ken Hackathorn
Not as clumsy or random as a blaster. An elegant weapon... for a more civilized age." —Obi-Wan
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-31-2020, 01:53 PM
scubadad scubadad is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,501
How does that saying go? Everything old is new again. Colt brought back the python and seem to be selling every one they make. Tisas has their hp clone and good bad or otherwise they are selling.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-31-2020, 02:01 PM
peacebutready peacebutready is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Southwest U.S.
Posts: 1,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by glider View Post
I've had 2 browning hi-powers, they really feel good in the hand, probably as good as anything. Problem is they don't shoot worth a damn out of the box. Trigger is terrible and mediocre accuracy. If you care to spend some gunsmith level money on one you can end up with a fine pistol.
This makes it even better for another manufacturer to make them. Better trigger and better accuracy.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-31-2020, 02:06 PM
peacebutready peacebutready is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Southwest U.S.
Posts: 1,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDKSAIL View Post
The Hi Power is (and always will be) an absolutely wonderful pistol but...the '..markets..' have moved on. For starters, how many new, single action, semi-automatic pistol designs (as opposed to DA/SA) have come to market in the past 25 years ?? One of the selling points of the Hi Power over the decades was its greater magazine capacity. How many pistol designs have the same or greater magazine capacity these days ?? The Hi Power was an especially robust and durable pistol...but in today's market how many products (including firearms) are now '..disposable..' ??

The Hi Power pistol was--and still is--one of the very finest examples of the art and science of weaponry ever produced (in an industry where '..success..' may be measured in thousands....the Browning Hi Power produced millions for decades) but as with many things unfortunately....its time has passed.

Given that millions of Hi Powers were manufactured and sold during its 70-odd year production run (and the pistol was so robust and durable) there will be a ready supply of first-rate Hi Powers coming onto the resale market for decades. Unlike '..old soldiers..' it ain't gonna' '..just fade away..' anytime soon.
The first paragraph doesn't apply to the real enthusiasts, IMO.

I didn't know there was first rate used ones on the market. I'll have to check. There are people who want new ones.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-31-2020, 02:16 PM
peacebutready peacebutready is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Southwest U.S.
Posts: 1,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by 15roundsof9 View Post
Loving this thread.

Would Ruger still put their “Read Instruction Manual” billboard on the slide?

Tisas Regent failed Browning Spring Solutions 5000 round test, several small parts broke. It’s also a cast, not forged gun.

BHP is light for a double stack 9mm, it has trouble with shooting +P rounds. It also needs gunsmith work to reliably feed hollowpoints. The design and finish would be expensive to make - decent 1911 price point.

But it’s a joy to shoot. If someone like Springfield were to work out hollowpoint feed reliability and offer one with a beavertail, I’d snap it up in a little north of $1K price range.

Colt is really best positioned to make a beautifully made BHP and that’s precisely why they won’t.
I'm glad you like this thread.

Thanks for your post. Good info. If it was made again, it would need to fully capable to fire +P loads. I don't think people would stand for it not being able to. Ditto for hollow points. I think of course newly manufactured ones would be capable/reliable of hollow points/+P because the manufacturer would know that is a must.

I didn't know the Tisas failed a test like the one you mention.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-31-2020, 02:22 PM
magnut magnut is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by scubadad View Post
How does that saying go? Everything old is new again. Colt brought back the python and seem to be selling every one they make. Tisas has their hp clone and good bad or otherwise they are selling.
you also have a lot of shooters that are going full grown gun nerd and want classic after getting a little bored with Glocks or Glock knockoffs. Not that there is anything wrong with glocks but after so long they get a little boring.

Almost nobody who own 1911s dislike them. They may not carry one but they love them at the range. If there is a market for 1911s there is a market for other classics. Lots of potential out there. Hi-powers...absolutely. 9mm is as popular as ever. I think polish radom vis35s could have a market as well. Sig already brougt back the 210. Prices are pretty high but 210s have always been a little crazy.

I really want to see LAR grizzleys come back into production. Automag pistols are a nich market but with all the 1911 fans out there it could work. Especially if they offered conversions again.

I would really like to see beretta do a revamp on the 1951/helwan. Give it sight, a thumb safety, and a solid backstrapped frame and it would be fantastic. A downsized single stack, single action Beretta carried cocked and locked would be a wonderful pistol.

Glock is not the only game in town. CZs and Beretta 92 are old designs and they still sell and have a huge following. 1911s are over 100 years old. Tokarevs are still being made. Revolvers are still popular. Even single action are popular.

Its all missed opportunity IMO. Gun manufacturers have gotten lazy and uncreative. The is lots of potential in the market.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-31-2020, 02:39 PM
15roundsof9 15roundsof9 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacebutready View Post
I'm glad you like this thread.

Thanks for your post. Good info. If it was made again, it would need to fully capable to fire +P loads. I don't think people would stand for it not being able to. Ditto for hollow points. I think of course newly manufactured ones would be capable/reliable of hollow points/+P because the manufacturer would know that is a must.

I didn't know the Tisas failed a test like the one you mention.
This is the test I was referring to

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthr.../topics/970390

Rellascout, someone with far more BHP experience than me, mentioned that the often mentioned HP feeding issue is a non-issue with the later BHP models. So I’d go with that. I really love this gun and ultimately would love to carry it, but the major drawbacks for me is perceived incompatibility with heavy diet of modern loads and less than 100% reliability with hollow points. If HPs are not an issue and they can strengthen the gun to handle +P pressures, this would be ideal.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:03 AM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved