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  #1  
Old 05-14-2017, 09:07 PM
Tootie Tootie is offline
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Lacquered Steel Cased 9mm Ammo

Despite not being a polymer fan, I recently bought a Walther Creed 9mm pistol and shot it for the first time today. I was using Monarch ammo, it has always performed well for me. What I noticed was that the ammo I purchased was steel cased and lacquered. I can't say how I screwed up so badly but I bought 500 rounds 8 or 10 years ago.

It shot well until I put about a dozen rounds downrange. The lacquer coating heated up and one round didn't eject. No big deal as I was able to free the fired round with a wooden dowel and a hammer. The gun shot well - it has a very nice trigger - as claimed in a recent gun magazine - and is a recent release from Walther. That is why I decided to give it a try. $285 is a heckuva price for what the Creed delivers.

My questions are: should I just dump the rest of the ammo or can the lacquer be removed and then continue to use it. Any help is greatly appreciated!
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  #2  
Old 05-14-2017, 09:09 PM
drail drail is offline
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Lacquered ammo cases were a really stupid idea.
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  #3  
Old 05-14-2017, 09:31 PM
Tootie Tootie is offline
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And the guy that bought them is dumber still . . . . . .
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  #4  
Old 05-15-2017, 12:09 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tootie View Post
Despite not being a polymer fan, I recently bought a Walther Creed 9mm pistol and shot it for the first time today. I was using Monarch ammo, it has always performed well for me. What I noticed was that the ammo I purchased was steel cased and lacquered. I can't say how I screwed up so badly but I bought 500 rounds 8 or 10 years ago.

It shot well until I put about a dozen rounds downrange. The lacquer coating heated up and one round didn't eject. No big deal as I was able to free the fired round with a wooden dowel and a hammer. The gun shot well - it has a very nice trigger - as claimed in a recent gun magazine - and is a recent release from Walther. That is why I decided to give it a try. $285 is a heckuva price for what the Creed delivers.

My questions are: should I just dump the rest of the ammo or can the lacquer be removed and then continue to use it. Any help is greatly appreciated!
You can send it directly to me for disposal......my guns shoot great with whatever I feed them so I tend to use cheap steel stuff since I get 2x the amount of shots for my $$$
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  #5  
Old 05-15-2017, 07:42 AM
Cappi Cappi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tootie View Post
My questions are: should I just dump the rest of the ammo or can the lacquer be removed and then continue to use it. Any help is greatly appreciated! .
may or may not help, Tootie.
but did you start with a clean chamber?
or were you shooting mixed? (brass and steel case)

If applicable, I'd start with a clean chamber and maybe you then could "dispose" of the ammo at targets


removing the lacquer......
Lacquer thinner would do it, but I'd have some concerns of contaminating primer or powder...and I'm sure "I'm" too lazy to go thru the hassle of dissolving lacquer with a rag and lacquer thinner

don't recall if you reload or not...if so, "maybe" a couple hours in the vibratory tumbler w/walnut will knock it down??

even if you remove the lacquer, the pistol still might choke on it.
Some pistols just won't run steel reliably

If my ammo, I'd just shoot 'em in a pistol that runs with it
(many will)




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Last edited by Cappi; 05-15-2017 at 07:50 AM.
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  #6  
Old 05-17-2017, 10:58 AM
Pakn1911 Pakn1911 is offline
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May not be the lacquer at all. The steel cases do not expand as well as brass so there is more blow by so you may have carbon build up. Look at you spent cases and see if there is a lot of carbon on them. I have used Monarch, Wolf, and TulAmmo in my guns with no problems. Keep them clean.

TM
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  #7  
Old 05-17-2017, 11:41 AM
wormraper wormraper is online now
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the lacquer does NOT melt in your gun. it takes a VERY hot temperature to get that lacquer to melt. People wrongly accused it in .223/5.56 of doing the same thing, but 99.9% of the time it's as Pakn1911 said. the cases don't expand as well and seal to the wall, so what you're getting is dirty powder. Clean every 200 rounds or so and you won't have this problem. gummy powder and residue is coating the throat of the barrel and needs scrubbing.
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  #8  
Old 05-17-2017, 11:53 AM
Chickenthief Chickenthief is offline
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http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/bras...el-cased-ammo/

https://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-ma...BiMetal-Ammo-8

Not all that glitters is gold.
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  #9  
Old 05-17-2017, 11:57 AM
wormraper wormraper is online now
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Originally Posted by Chickenthief View Post
the lucky gunner test has been debunked as heavily flawed quite a few times.

all it proves is that under RAPID fire with them burning through ammo at a record pace under HIGH HEAT of rapid fire do certain conditions occur. Other people at the AK and AR files forum have 50,000 + rounds of steel at NORMAL conditions (shooting semi auto without doing every round as a mag dump) and are still ticking. All the lucky gunner test proved is that steel will wear faster than brass IN CERTAIN CONDITIONS.
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  #10  
Old 05-17-2017, 05:00 PM
earlwb earlwb is offline
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Since you have the lacquered steel cased ammo, just go ahead and shoot it up. It should not be a problem. Just pay extra attention to the chamber when cleaning the barrel out. The barrel/chamber has to get pretty hot before the lacquer becomes a problem, if even then. The lacquer is probably not the problem when cases are sticking etc. I used to think the same way in that the lacquer was a problem, but there is enough anecdotal testing and results that show that it isn't.
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  #11  
Old 05-17-2017, 06:32 PM
Tootie Tootie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post
the lacquer does NOT melt in your gun. it takes a VERY hot temperature to get that lacquer to melt. People wrongly accused it in .223/5.56 of doing the same thing, but 99.9% of the time it's as Pakn1911 said. the cases don't expand as well and seal to the wall, so what you're getting is dirty powder. Clean every 200 rounds or so and you won't have this problem. gummy powder and residue is coating the throat of the barrel and needs scrubbing.
I would disagree with that assumption. I only put about a dozen rounds thru my Creed and powder residue was not an issue when I cleaned it. I've had the same issue with Wolf ammo in my AR builds and powder wasn't the problem there either..
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  #12  
Old 05-18-2017, 06:41 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post
the lacquer does NOT melt in your gun. it takes a VERY hot temperature to get that lacquer to melt. People wrongly accused it in .223/5.56 of doing the same thing, but 99.9% of the time it's as Pakn1911 said. the cases don't expand as well and seal to the wall, so what you're getting is dirty powder. Clean every 200 rounds or so and you won't have this problem. gummy powder and residue is coating the throat of the barrel and needs scrubbing.
There was a thread awhile back that talked about the same result. This was the consensus as well. It makes perfect sense. Anyway, I'm sticking with brass. Steel on steel (although softer) just bugs me!
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  #13  
Old 05-18-2017, 10:57 AM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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If you have a concern about the ammo.

I would just put it aside and save it for a rainy day. If ammo gets tight, at least you have something.
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  #14  
Old 05-18-2017, 11:35 AM
wormraper wormraper is online now
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Originally Posted by Tootie View Post
I would disagree with that assumption. I only put about a dozen rounds thru my Creed and powder residue was not an issue when I cleaned it. I've had the same issue with Wolf ammo in my AR builds and powder wasn't the problem there either..
it would take a LOOOOOT more than just 12-13 rounds to start melting that lacquer too. if it wasn't powder then it CERTAINLY wasn't the lacquer. It was most likely something else like bad shrinking of the steel (steel doesn't contract as fast as brass) that got it stuck .... your Creed might have a tighter than normal bore and it's catching. but to heat up lacquer the found it would have taken hundreds of rounds of full auto to get it to heat up enough to melt.

honestly it's no biggie. your gun doesn't like it that much. shoot it till it's gone and call it day, or use it in another gun that likes it better. my glocks will eat steel like they're skittles while my shield will choke on them... it is what it is
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:39 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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I would just put it aside and save it for a rainy day. If ammo gets tight, at least you have something.
Good answer! Last resort type of stuff.
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  #16  
Old 05-19-2017, 04:47 PM
earlwb earlwb is offline
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Well I suppose one could spray a little non-stick cooking spray into the chamber or cartridges before they shoot the ammo.

Last edited by earlwb; 05-19-2017 at 04:47 PM. Reason: typo correction
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  #17  
Old 05-20-2017, 06:49 PM
Tootie Tootie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post
it would take a LOOOOOT more than just 12-13 rounds to start melting that lacquer too. if it wasn't powder then it CERTAINLY wasn't the lacquer. It was most likely something else like bad shrinking of the steel (steel doesn't contract as fast as brass) that got it stuck .... your Creed might have a tighter than normal bore and it's catching. but to heat up lacquer the found it would have taken hundreds of rounds of full auto to get it to heat up enough to melt.

honestly it's no biggie. your gun doesn't like it that much. shoot it till it's gone and call it day, or use it in another gun that likes it better. my glocks will eat steel like they're skittles while my shield will choke on them... it is what it is
I do have 2 other polymer guns - XDm's in 9mm and .45. I'll try the ammo in the 9 and I also will have a Wiley Clapp 9mm Commander by mid-week to try it on too. I also didn't think a dozen rounds would be enough to begin melting lacquer but I found no other issue to blame. I cleaned and lubed the Creed before the range trip and found nothing unusual after thr trip either.
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  #18  
Old 05-20-2017, 06:59 PM
wormraper wormraper is online now
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Originally Posted by Tootie View Post
I do have 2 other polymer guns - XDm's in 9mm and .45. I'll try the ammo in the 9 and I also will have a Wiley Clapp 9mm Commander by mid-week to try it on too. I also didn't think a dozen rounds would be enough to begin melting lacquer but I found no other issue to blame. I cleaned and lubed the Creed before the range trip and found nothing unusual after thr trip either.
yeah, with only 12 rounds or so... not nearly enough time or frequency... I would guess them not contracting and just getting stuck. tight bore most likely

oh, how do you like the creed though? weird question. Does it have a way to access the firing pin to clean it out? the PPX (which the creed basically replaced) had no way for the end user to clean out the channel, so if gunk got down in the firing pin channel it would jam up and you'd have to send it off to walther. I liked the gun, but that was a deal killer for me.
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  #19  
Old 05-21-2017, 06:57 AM
Plaidad Plaidad is offline
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I picked up some Tula .380 when I bought my LCP because I wanted try a little of everything in it. I had the same problem as Tootie. The chamber on my LCP was filthy. I agree with the idea about the steel cases not expanding as much. I just shoot a couple of rounds at the end of each range session to use it up.
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