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  #26  
Old 05-01-2004, 11:11 PM
Emerson Emerson is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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About 100,000 to become adequate. About 1,000,000 to become proficient.

Emerson
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Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician - Col Jeff Cooper
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  #27  
Old 05-01-2004, 11:27 PM
Mus Mus is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 11,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerson
About 100,000 to become adequate. About 1,000,000 to become proficient.

Emerson
It seems to me you are confusing proficiency with mastery.

Last edited by Mus; 05-01-2004 at 11:30 PM.
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  #28  
Old 05-02-2004, 01:44 AM
Pete45 Pete45 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
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Posts: 167
CTI1USNRET..... long post here..... this is something that's been on my mind lately and all this is just opinion:

Proficiency, is a tough thing to measure in rounds fired. It all depends on what your definition of "proficiency" is. Personally, I am not concerned with landing in the center of the target every time or feeling like I am a good shooter based on a scorecard. My concern is whether or not I can get myself used to my gun in a way that, if I had to use it to defend myself, I could get it to function properly under stress. Getting the basics down is important, no doubt about that. There is also great value to having things become second nature through a consistent form of practice, but some take this to an extreme. If life teaches you one thing, it's that conditions vary.

For example, I find it comical when I see shooters holding the top of the slide with their left hand, adjusting their grip with their right, testing their stance, then firing their heavily modified pistols. I am NOT knocking competition shooters AT ALL. I respect the sport. It takes a lot of effort and practice, but there is a different goal there. The only danger would be if a competition shooter could ONLY shoot that way. Sometimes there is no time for the pre-firing song and dance.

One needs to realize that there may come a time where you do not have the (time) luxury of getting into your favorite proven stance, aligning your sights just right, genty squeezing the trigger, etc. You may have to make a quick decision to shoot, maybe with just one hand, maybe with your weak hand! What if you were on a hill having to shoot on a slightly up angle or down angle? What if you had just been running (away from someone) and are out of breath? What if you were crouched? I am particularly weak in getting a new magazine in quickly and the ranges I go to don't really allow you to practice draw and shoot drills either.

Good practice is the key. I handle new tasks that require practice best when I slowly build up to things. For example... try shooting at 15 to 20 feet. Stay at that range until you are comfortable with the results. Then move the target further out. Get comfortable there. Take note of what you are doing right and what is not helping you.

Get advice from experienced shooters... friends or other patient shooters if possible. If you are having a consistent problem, ask them to watch you and see if they are noticing anything wrong with your technique. Sometimes it is hard to pick up on something you are doing, but another can see it easily. In my short time shooting, I have seen that tiny adjustments in technique make a huge difference. The trick is getting used to shooting this way quickly and without having to say to yourself, "OK... my left foot goes here, my right there... this hand here, that there... ok... aligning sights... just a little to the left... ok... squeeze..." Get comfortable at a certain distance, speed up your sight aquisition and firing, then move on to a further target. In my opinion, a drill and repetition mentality goes further when trying to naturally shoot correctly than adjusting yourself to perfect stance/grip each time you fire.

LOTONO said 5-50 yards... between 15 and 150 feet. Unless you are at war, 150 feet seems kind of far to me unless you are a quarterback. I wouldn't beat myself up if you are not the best shooter at even 50 or 75 feet. At that distance, I have a hard time seeing where I have hit the target... kind of tough to practice and adjust when you don't know where you are landing. If you are talking defense, people rarely threaten your life from 150 ft away.

Ahh... what do I know... I am only shooting since December and am only at the 1,200 rounds fired mark.

- Pete45
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  #29  
Old 05-02-2004, 09:25 PM
Redhat Redhat is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: TX
Posts: 2,253
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPSRangemaster
I am at 16 years and about 100k rounds and have yet to become an expert at any but I consider myself proficient with all that I own + others.

Later, TI
Rangemaster, what range do they have in Greenville? I'm originally from Spartanburg although I've been in the Air Force for the last 18 years.

Redhat
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  #30  
Old 05-04-2004, 02:01 AM
Andy Andy is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,789
[QUOTE=Crazy Horse]I would say if you took a pistol shooting course from one of the many well known shooting schools, in which you'll shoot approximately 3000 rounds in five days of 8-10 hours-per-day of shooting, that at the end of that course you'll have the fundamentals of basic shooting down. From that base you can then either take more advanced courses, which I would highly recommend, or practice on your own.QUOTE]

I only shot half that amount during the last course I took at Gunsite (499), and only about 1300 in their introductory 250 class...

Get the basics of the Modern Technique of the Pistol down right the first time. Perfect Practice makes for perfect technique. That way, you won't have to unlearn any bad habits. Dry fire practice is always accessible, cheap, and one only needs some live-fire practice/shooting to keep recoil management in perspective.

I would encourage you to take a course at Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Blackwater, Mid-South, or any class offered by Randy Cain, Louis Awerbuck, Steve Gonzalez, Pat Rogers, Tiger McKee, Tom Givens, Jim Crews, etc. The Rogers School in GA is also quite good.

Good luck!!
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  #31  
Old 05-06-2004, 12:07 AM
Coop Coop is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTI1USNRET
How many rounds do you think it takes to become proficient with your weapon?
I don't know, and hopefully never believe I DO know. However good I might be, there is ALWAYS room for improvement.


Later!

--Coop

(And I ain't that good.)
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