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  #1  
Old 02-16-2017, 09:56 PM
Fire4606 Fire4606 is offline
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What is this gunsmith talking about

Well i took a couple of 1911's in to have new Dawson fiber optic sights put on them, as their gonna be game guns.

Apparently the gun smith thoughtnhenhad to do some kind of function test on them to install a front sight.

S&W PC1911, he says fails a "safety check" when he hand racks it "really hard" the hammer drops to half cocked.

Ive never had any issues with the gun in the 5 or 600 rounds I've put through it, but it sounds like what he is describing is hammer follow.

Ive never heard of racking it really hard to try and induce a failure but I have heard about not letting a slide slam home empty as it can damage a sear, wouldn't hand racking it "really hard" be doung just that?

And is that bad/hard on the gun?
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  #2  
Old 02-16-2017, 10:18 PM
jmx66 jmx66 is offline
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I doubt a human could rack it as hard as shooting a round through it.
Dropping on an empty chamber notwithstanding.

Was your response "So?" and what did he say?
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  #3  
Old 02-16-2017, 10:22 PM
Thomgetch Thomgetch is online now
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It is a common check for hammer follow, typically when one suspects a problem. A steady diet of such could over time cause a problem but with modern guns not likely. The few times one would do this will not cause material damage, generally. There are excellent posts on testing what type of issue you might have on this forum. Search hammer follow and look for Log Man posts. While it might shoot fine now it might be borderline. If it's a range gun you could wait to see what happens, if a carry gun, might want to get that fixed. I do this every so often for peace of mind.
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  #4  
Old 02-16-2017, 10:49 PM
Filo Filo is offline
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I'm not a gunsmith nor do I play one on TV but I sure don't understand how you could hand rack the slide harder than the force it goes through while being fired or why you would want to. my 1st thought is it might be something as simple as the arch on the sear spring but I'd look for a 2nd opinion and probably a new gunsmith depending on what some one else found or knows.
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  #5  
Old 02-16-2017, 11:01 PM
dclevinger dclevinger is offline
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Racking the slide and letting it fall on an empty chamber is a way to check for too little tension from the sear spring. I hate doing it but I check every gun I build this way. When the slide chambers a round while firing, it is slowed and cushioned a bit by feeding the round out of the mag and up the ramp into the chamber. Your gun may function just fine while shooting for now but it is far from an ideal situation.

There are a lot of opinions on whether dropping the slide on an empty chamber will damage the gun. Doing it a few times as a safety check won't but I do not suggest doing it over and over just because.
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  #6  
Old 02-17-2017, 07:17 AM
Fire4606 Fire4606 is offline
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Thanks for the info guys.

Its a game gun, not a carry gun so i guess ill go into wait and see mode.
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  #7  
Old 02-17-2017, 08:19 AM
EvolutionArmory EvolutionArmory is online now
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I've run into guns that won't follow during firing but will follow during a hard rack. The gun should not follow in either instance. 2 things that happen during live fire that don't happen during a hard rack with an empty gun are: 1) your finger is holding the trigger back during the recoil of live fire and there is the next round slowing the slide down back to battery.

Your gun probably falls to half cock with a hard rack due to trigger bounce. It could be insufficient pre travel, a long trigger bow, insufficient sear spring tension or a couple other reasons. Either way, it's an issue that needs to be addressed.
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  #8  
Old 02-17-2017, 08:40 AM
yeti yeti is online now
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You should thank that diligent smith for going above and beyond.
You need to know.
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  #9  
Old 02-17-2017, 09:06 AM
Busa Dave Busa Dave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvolutionArmory View Post
I've run into guns that won't follow during firing but will follow during a hard rack. The gun should not follow in either instance. 2 things that happen during live fire that don't happen during a hard rack with an empty gun are: 1) your finger is holding the trigger back during the recoil of live fire and there is the next round slowing the slide down back to battery.

Your gun probably falls to half cock with a hard rack due to trigger bounce. It could be insufficient pre travel, a long trigger bow, insufficient sear spring tension or a couple other reasons. Either way, it's an issue that needs to be addressed.
To the OP this is spot on. NOT normal and is not good have it corrected..
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  #10  
Old 02-17-2017, 09:20 AM
Filo Filo is offline
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maybe I don't understand the part of the statement of: when he hand racks it "really hard"
if the hammer drops to half cocked when you release the slide on an empty chamber that's a problem and should be fixed right away. while dropping the slide on an empty chamber over time has some possible drawbacks to me it's still part of the normal function and operation of the gun not a special event or test method.
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  #11  
Old 02-17-2017, 09:48 AM
Gary Wells Gary Wells is offline
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I think that I would like a 2nd opinion.
I think that the 1st gunnie is already a tad greedy.
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  #12  
Old 02-17-2017, 11:41 AM
slopemeno slopemeno is online now
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Here's how your convo with that 1st Smith goes: "Thanks for installing that front sight. I'll return it to Smith and Wesson for the hammer follow issue".
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  #13  
Old 02-17-2017, 11:47 AM
cdhbrad cdhbrad is offline
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That sounds like a plan I would follow too.
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  #14  
Old 02-17-2017, 05:56 PM
EvolutionArmory EvolutionArmory is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slopemeno View Post
Here's how your convo with that 1st Smith goes: "Thanks for installing that front sight. I'll return it to Smith and Wesson for the hammer follow issue".
Sending it back to S&W might not be the best idea. I had a customer send his gun back 3 times for full auto. They never could fix it. He gives it to me. I adjusted the overtravel screw and the problem went away.
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  #15  
Old 02-17-2017, 06:42 PM
Gunner220 Gunner220 is offline
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Don't let the slide slam into battery.

If you make it a habit of letting the slide go into battery without a magazine in place it causes great stress on the sear and eventually the hammer will just start following the slide forward when the slide is dropped even with a full mag in place.

Same is true of Hi-Powers.
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  #16  
Old 02-17-2017, 08:47 PM
kinnison kinnison is offline
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why did the smith need the whole firearm to install sights ?
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  #17  
Old 02-17-2017, 08:51 PM
EvolutionArmory EvolutionArmory is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinnison View Post
why did the smith need the whole firearm to install sights ?
Just a shot in the dark. You can't test fire a slide for accuracy?
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  #18  
Old 02-17-2017, 09:01 PM
Joshua M. Smith Joshua M. Smith is offline
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In my opinion, a good gunsmith will function check any gun which passes through his hands.

Josh
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  #19  
Old 02-18-2017, 12:18 AM
MosinVirus MosinVirus is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evolutionarmory View Post
just a shot in the dark. You can't test fire a slide for accuracy?
lol...
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  #20  
Old 02-18-2017, 03:05 PM
kinnison kinnison is offline
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I would think test fireing and adjustment would be up to the owner,unless that owner is a gas and go person .
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  #21  
Old Yesterday, 11:02 AM
Peter1911 Peter1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua M. Smith View Post
In my opinion, a good gunsmith will function check any gun which passes through his hands.

Josh
I agree with this. In this litigious scociety if someone were hurt by a malfunctioning firearm and the complaintant's lawyer finds out a particular smith handled the weapon, the smith will likely have to defend his work. By not doing a full function check, his a$$ is hanging out in the wind.
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  #22  
Old Yesterday, 12:01 PM
kinnison kinnison is offline
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Unless the sights are part of a safety,or are used in anyway to make a firearm safe then they have no other fuction that to assist in aiming the gun . Full assembley and function testing and adjustment is up to the owner/user .No gunsmith of any grade custom or evan a machinest needs the whole firearm to install sights .
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