Trail Boss in Dillon Powder Measure and 650 - Page 2 - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 11-19-2019, 04:45 PM
RealGun RealGun is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 1,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifter View Post
OK, what is VMD? Not familiar with that one, not by initials in any case.<snip>
Volume Measuring Density
Charge in grains x VMD = Volume cc

It is used extensively in Lee powder measuring instructions. Each powder has its VMD factor listed in a chart, so that they can be compared.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-21-2019, 10:37 PM
wrench man wrench man is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene Orygun
Posts: 379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Vaccaro View Post
Another good thing about Trail Boss & the .45 Colt, a double charge overflows the case, I've deliberatly tried. There is no way to seat a bullet on a double charge. It should not be compressed however
Yep, 7.0grns fills up a 45 Colt case right to the bottom of a 250grn RNFP boolit, that is more than Hodgdon recommends, but it's not compressed, but I wouldn't put another .1grn under it!!
__________________
ASE master certified engine machinist
Brake & Alignment specialist, ricer to class 8
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-22-2019, 10:20 AM
RealGun RealGun is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 1,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealGun View Post
Volume Measuring Density
Charge in grains x VMD = Volume cc

It is used extensively in Lee powder measuring instructions. Each powder has its VMD factor listed in a chart, so that they can be compared.
If you used a dipper for a fixed cc value, you could do the algebra for VMD.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #29  
Old 11-22-2019, 01:26 PM
Rifter's Avatar
Rifter Rifter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The People's Republic of Illinois, most corrupt state in the Union.
Posts: 5,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealGun View Post
Volume Measuring Density
Charge in grains x VMD = Volume cc

It is used extensively in Lee powder measuring instructions. Each powder has its VMD factor listed in a chart, so that they can be compared.

Ahh, OK. I've never heard that term that I can recall, and though I've used the dippers before, it was long, long ago. I never saw the point of dippers with extruded powders in any case. I don't think much of Lee products.
__________________
Vietnam Combat Vet - U.S. Navy 1970-1974
NRA Benefactor Life Member

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice - Barry Goldwater
When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance becomes Duty - Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-22-2019, 01:38 PM
Rifter's Avatar
Rifter Rifter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The People's Republic of Illinois, most corrupt state in the Union.
Posts: 5,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrench man View Post
Yep, 7.0grns fills up a 45 Colt case right to the bottom of a 250grn RNFP boolit, that is more than Hodgdon recommends, but it's not compressed, but I wouldn't put another .1grn under it!!

Tin Star is a denser powder than TB. Load density is not the same as powder density though. It takes 8.6 gr in .45 Colt to come up to the bottom of the 250 gr RNFP bullet. At that level, it equals the original black powder power level and gives approximately 900 fps in a 7.5" barrel. In my 4.2" Redhawk it runs 875 fps.


Tin Star is more docile, however, than TB. When you hit the line with TB, it takes very little to run pressures through the roof. In the .44 Mag case (which is the same length but smaller diameter than .45 Colt) I can use 9.0 gr under a 240 gr. RNFP for 1000 fps from my 4" M-69. I'm guesstimating that pressure is between 20k and 25k, while a full power .44 Mag load with appropriate powder runs around 35k pressure. If you tried that trick with TB, you'd blow up your gun.
__________________
Vietnam Combat Vet - U.S. Navy 1970-1974
NRA Benefactor Life Member

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice - Barry Goldwater
When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance becomes Duty - Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 11-23-2019, 06:12 AM
VF-1 VF-1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: East Missouri
Posts: 964
I’m a fan of Trail boss in my Dillon 550 for 38 Special & 44 Special loads. First and foremost, I can see the powder level in my cases. Secondly, you can’t double charge with Trail boss. Powder would be spilling all over your press if you double charged. And third, it’s extremely soft shooting for target loads. My only complaint, is the 9 oz. can. Enjoy your trail boss, OP!
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-23-2019, 07:22 AM
RealGun RealGun is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 1,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifter View Post
Ahh, OK. I've never heard that term that I can recall, and though I've used the dippers before, it was long, long ago. I never saw the point of dippers with extruded powders in any case. I don't think much of Lee products.
I hesitated to mention Lee because it would trigger the bashing. I am very proficient and happy with my Lee turret, so I am kind of a defender.

Use your own measure if "dippers" trigger you. Fill an empty case to the level brim with powder then weigh it. The cc otherwise is just a standard of comparison.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-23-2019, 07:30 AM
RealGun RealGun is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 1,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifter View Post
Tin Star is a denser powder than TB. Load density is not the same as powder density though. It takes 8.6 gr in .45 Colt to come up to the bottom of the 250 gr RNFP bullet. At that level, it equals the original black powder power level and gives approximately 900 fps in a 7.5" barrel. In my 4.2" Redhawk it runs 875 fps.


Tin Star is more docile, however, than TB. When you hit the line with TB, it takes very little to run pressures through the roof. In the .44 Mag case (which is the same length but smaller diameter than .45 Colt) I can use 9.0 gr under a 240 gr. RNFP for 1000 fps from my 4" M-69. I'm guesstimating that pressure is between 20k and 25k, while a full power .44 Mag load with appropriate powder runs around 35k pressure. If you tried that trick with TB, you'd blow up your gun.
Running Trailboss on the hot side does not match its promoted usage. The powder should not be condemned for something that is not going to happen with any wisdom except in theory. One should pick a powder appropriate to the application and as optimal as possible. In 45 Colt with 255 grain lead bullets I use 5.2 gr for CAS and 5.6 for the range and general purposes. That would be in Colt SAA type guns. Shoots well all around. Loading TB in serious magnum levels (compressed?) is silly IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11-23-2019, 07:33 AM
RealGun RealGun is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 1,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by VF-1 View Post
Iím a fan of Trail boss in my Dillon 550 for 38 Special & 44 Special loads. First and foremost, I can see the powder level in my cases. Secondly, you canít double charge with Trail boss. Powder would be spilling all over your press if you double charged. And third, itís extremely soft shooting for target loads. My only complaint, is the 9 oz. can. Enjoy your trail boss, OP!
I see Trailboss as rightfully priced lower by those who don't oversimplify their powder pricing. The powder is too low in fill density to fit a pound in a standard plastic jar.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-24-2019, 03:19 AM
Rifter's Avatar
Rifter Rifter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The People's Republic of Illinois, most corrupt state in the Union.
Posts: 5,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealGun View Post
Running Trailboss on the hot side does not match its promoted usage. The powder should not be condemned for something that is not going to happen with any wisdom except in theory. One should pick a powder appropriate to the application and as optimal as possible. In 45 Colt with 255 grain lead bullets I use 5.2 gr for CAS and 5.6 for the range and general purposes. That would be in Colt SAA type guns. Shoots well all around. Loading TB in serious magnum levels (compressed?) is silly IMO.

Well, part of the problem is that TB has always been mismarketed in my opinion. That is due in large part to the idea that cowboy loads as used in Cowboy matches are not loaded to realistic levels. A real cowboy from 1875 would throw such loads into the nearest horse trough. But, that's what Trail Boss was designed to do. For the smarter people who want better performance in terms of consistent ignition (along with not having to fool with powder position in that big old case) try to make it do things it isn't meant to do.


In my case, I set out from the beginning looking for components that would let me load full power (black powder equivalent) with smokeless. I ruled out TB right from the jump because I knew it couldn't cut it at that level. I also ruled out 98% of the typical pistol powders normally listed in the manuals for the .45 Colt because they couldn't meet load density criteria or consistency criteria without exceeding safe pressures (again I was trying to stay within black powder pressure levels). The only powder I've found that even came close was A5744, but it was not that great either. That left N32C Tin Star, and that happily does it all, and it has proven to be a very versatile powder in every vintage type cartridge I've tried it in. My hat is off to Vihtavuori for some superb chemistry.
__________________
Vietnam Combat Vet - U.S. Navy 1970-1974
NRA Benefactor Life Member

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice - Barry Goldwater
When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance becomes Duty - Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-24-2019, 03:25 AM
Rifter's Avatar
Rifter Rifter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The People's Republic of Illinois, most corrupt state in the Union.
Posts: 5,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealGun View Post
I see Trailboss as rightfully priced lower by those who don't oversimplify their powder pricing. The powder is too low in fill density to fit a pound in a standard plastic jar.

If you take two cans of TB (18 oz total) and call it a lb, you'll end up paying about the same as you would for a lb of Tin Star. Since Tin Star is far more versatile and can run target level as well as full power, it makes more sense to buy Tin Star due to its versatility.
__________________
Vietnam Combat Vet - U.S. Navy 1970-1974
NRA Benefactor Life Member

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice - Barry Goldwater
When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance becomes Duty - Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-25-2019, 01:53 AM
wrench man wrench man is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene Orygun
Posts: 379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifter View Post
If you take two cans of TB (18 oz total) and call it a lb, you'll end up paying about the same as you would for a lb of Tin Star.
A quick internet search shows that Vihtavuori N32C "Tin Star" is about $10 a pound more?, figure it out per ounce, and I've NEVER seen ANY!?? Vihtavuori powder in person??, I can get Trail Boss at lunch time tomorrow!

I have about 15 actual pounds of Trail Boss on hand, including two 5#jugs of it, I'm good with the results I'm getting, if I need to feel hot rod 45's I'll get out the 454 Casull and 450 Marlin.
__________________
ASE master certified engine machinist
Brake & Alignment specialist, ricer to class 8
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-25-2019, 07:38 AM
RealGun RealGun is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 1,605
https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/prod...avuori-n32c-1/

Powder Valley sale on Vihtavuori, to include N32C aka Tin Star. No Hazmat on orders over $149. They also have bullets, primers, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-25-2019, 07:58 AM
RealGun RealGun is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 1,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifter View Post
Well, part of the problem is that TB has always been mismarketed in my opinion. That is due in large part to the idea that cowboy loads as used in Cowboy matches are not loaded to realistic levels. A real cowboy from 1875 would throw such loads into the nearest horse trough. But, that's what Trail Boss was designed to do. For the smarter people who want better performance in terms of consistent ignition (along with not having to fool with powder position in that big old case) try to make it do things it isn't meant to do.


In my case, I set out from the beginning looking for components that would let me load full power (black powder equivalent) with smokeless. I ruled out TB right from the jump because I knew it couldn't cut it at that level. I also ruled out 98% of the typical pistol powders normally listed in the manuals for the .45 Colt because they couldn't meet load density criteria or consistency criteria without exceeding safe pressures (again I was trying to stay within black powder pressure levels). The only powder I've found that even came close was A5744, but it was not that great either. That left N32C Tin Star, and that happily does it all, and it has proven to be a very versatile powder in every vintage type cartridge I've tried it in. My hat is off to Vihtavuori for some superb chemistry.
Nice! You disrespect CAS and claim to be smarter than Trailboss users.

Hodgdon shows their "cowboy" load data as exactly the same as their regular listing, maxing at 727 fps and 12.7k psi, a pressure number approximately 10% lower than standard max of 14k, conservative to include older guns. That would be for the 250 grain lead bullet. Many 45 Colt shooters use a much lighter bullet, because the muzzle rise and cocking with an authentic high-spur hammer works against staying on target for crazy fast shooting. I have been shooting a 255 bullet with a mid range load that is a challenge to manage and will probably go to the minimum load for some range tests. After using these bullets I may go to a lighter bullet but already know my guns shoot a bit low with 200 grain. A better bet may be to use 45 Cowboy special in the pistols, which is a 45 ACP-length case with 45 Colt specs otherwise. Then Trailboss may not fit...Tin Star neither. 160 grain is the usual bullet weight for 45CS.

Last edited by RealGun; 11-25-2019 at 08:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11-25-2019, 08:20 AM
Snapdragon Snapdragon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brunswick County, NC
Posts: 3,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealGun View Post
Volume Measuring Density
Charge in grains x VMD = Volume cc

It is used extensively in Lee powder measuring instructions. Each powder has its VMD factor listed in a chart, so that they can be compared.
Would not it be much easier and less confusing just to say density rather that having some nebulous term such as VMD? All VDM seems to be is cc/grain.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 11-25-2019, 10:52 AM
RealGun RealGun is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 1,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapdragon View Post
Would not it be much easier and less confusing just to say density rather that having some nebulous term such as VMD? All VDM seems to be is cc/grain.
Or one could just accept that Lee knows what they are doing, not reflexively disrespected. Try to comprehend the formula, but it really doesn't matter, once you have a list of relative numbers. If a powder is not on the list, one can use a measure of known cc value and then weigh it on powder scales. Your formula would then be better stated as grains per cc, not your inverse, resulting in a fraction of a cc, whatever value that would be.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 11-26-2019, 07:02 PM
Rifter's Avatar
Rifter Rifter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The People's Republic of Illinois, most corrupt state in the Union.
Posts: 5,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrench man View Post
A quick internet search shows that Vihtavuori N32C "Tin Star" is about $10 a pound more?, figure it out per ounce, and I've NEVER seen ANY!?? Vihtavuori powder in person??, I can get Trail Boss at lunch time tomorrow!

I have about 15 actual pounds of Trail Boss on hand, including two 5#jugs of it, I'm good with the results I'm getting, if I need to feel hot rod 45's I'll get out the 454 Casull and 450 Marlin.



NatchezSS has TB at $34 for two, Tin Star is $36.50 for a lb (a $5 rebate is on also) or $31.50 incl rebate.


That's close enough to the same price to suit me. With Free Hazmat for $150 or more order, you can't beat it. Nobody is talking about hot rodding anything either. TB is good for mouse fart cowboy loads. Tin Star allows you to load from target level to full power (black powder original ballistics).
__________________
Vietnam Combat Vet - U.S. Navy 1970-1974
NRA Benefactor Life Member

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice - Barry Goldwater
When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance becomes Duty - Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 11-26-2019, 07:12 PM
Rifter's Avatar
Rifter Rifter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The People's Republic of Illinois, most corrupt state in the Union.
Posts: 5,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealGun View Post
Nice! You disrespect CAS and claim to be smarter than Trailboss users.

Hodgdon shows their "cowboy" load data as exactly the same as their regular listing, maxing at 727 fps and 12.7k psi, a pressure number approximately 10% lower than standard max of 14k, conservative to include older guns. That would be for the 250 grain lead bullet. Many 45 Colt shooters use a much lighter bullet, because the muzzle rise and cocking with an authentic high-spur hammer works against staying on target for crazy fast shooting. I have been shooting a 255 bullet with a mid range load that is a challenge to manage and will probably go to the minimum load for some range tests. After using these bullets I may go to a lighter bullet but already know my guns shoot a bit low with 200 grain. A better bet may be to use 45 Cowboy special in the pistols, which is a 45 ACP-length case with 45 Colt specs otherwise. Then Trailboss may not fit...Tin Star neither. 160 grain is the usual bullet weight for 45CS.



I'm not disrespecting anything. Anybody who claims TB loads are equivalent to standard original black powder ballistic .45 Colt loads doesn't know much about the cartridge. Original ballistics are approx. 850-900 fps with a 250 RNFP depending on barrel length. I've been to matches where they use real deal full power loads equivalent to the original BP era ammo. It is far more interesting in my opinion than shooting what amounts to target wadcutters, and takes a lot more skill.



Even if you allow for the 1880s gov't load of a 230 gr. RNFP in a Schofield case with Colt rim (known then as .45 Gov't) that is still around 800 fps, and would fit and shoot in both the Colt SAA and the Schofield top break revolvers.
__________________
Vietnam Combat Vet - U.S. Navy 1970-1974
NRA Benefactor Life Member

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice - Barry Goldwater
When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance becomes Duty - Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 11-26-2019, 08:27 PM
RealGun RealGun is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 1,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifter View Post
I'm not disrespecting anything. Anybody who claims TB loads are equivalent to standard original black powder ballistic .45 Colt loads doesn't know much about the cartridge. Original ballistics are approx. 850-900 fps with a 250 RNFP depending on barrel length. I've been to matches where they use real deal full power loads equivalent to the original BP era ammo. It is far more interesting in my opinion than shooting what amounts to target wadcutters, and takes a lot more skill.



Even if you allow for the 1880s gov't load of a 230 gr. RNFP in a Schofield case with Colt rim (known then as .45 Gov't) that is still around 800 fps, and would fit and shoot in both the Colt SAA and the Schofield top break revolvers.
You took another swipe at Cowboy Action Shooting, while sounding like you know little about it or that it is beneath you. CAS is not a target shoot. It is shooting the course as fast as possible with period style guns which are race-tuned like most other shooting sports.

Your paragraph of data is not a response to anything I posted, so I would rather not be quoted for that part. I have never made any comparisons of TB with black powder except maybe the case fill.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 11-26-2019, 11:23 PM
Snapdragon Snapdragon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brunswick County, NC
Posts: 3,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealGun View Post
Or one could just accept that Lee knows what they are doing, not reflexively disrespected. Try to comprehend the formula, but it really doesn't matter, once you have a list of relative numbers. If a powder is not on the list, one can use a measure of known cc value and then weigh it on powder scales. Your formula would then be better stated as grains per cc, not your inverse, resulting in a fraction of a cc, whatever value that would be.
Fraction of a grain or a fraction of a cc. No big deal either way. Grain/cc or cc/grain does not really matter until you determine whether you are looking for grains or volume so you know which to use. Are you looking for the number of grains for a given volume or for the volume needed to throw a given number of grains?

I have never been a big fan of the Lee loading data for a variety of reasons. I do not know for sure that they actually know what they are doing. They did not formulate the loading data for the Lee book I have, so I have no assurances that they know anything about loading data except how to compile it from other sources that do the real testing. No, I am not just blindly going to accept that they know what they are doing.

Reflexively disrespect??? Are you overly sensitive and defensive about anything that might question the perfection of Lee stuff? I have some Lee stuff that I use regularly. I have some other Lee stuff that I consider to be vastly inferior to other brands. I do not automatically assume that equipment is junk just because it has Lee stamped on it. Respect has to be earned, and I have been disappointed enough times by Lee in the last 55 years I have been loading to be cautious.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 11-27-2019, 01:36 PM
Rifter's Avatar
Rifter Rifter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The People's Republic of Illinois, most corrupt state in the Union.
Posts: 5,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealGun View Post
You took another swipe at Cowboy Action Shooting, while sounding like you know little about it or that it is beneath you. CAS is not a target shoot. It is shooting the course as fast as possible with period style guns which are race-tuned like most other shooting sports.

Your paragraph of data is not a response to anything I posted, so I would rather not be quoted for that part. I have never made any comparisons of TB with black powder except maybe the case fill.

Well, to the extent that I don't get all excited about CAS, hardly warrants saying I disrespect it. I shot combat pistol matches for ten years back in the day when it first came along, when you shot what you owned, and did the best you could with what you had. That was the point of it. I quit when people started showing up with specialized race guns that used technology to improve scores rather than their own innate talent. When CAS came along, I followed it until I noticed the same sort of thing happening. One such change was lowering of cartridge power to much lower levels than normal than was standard for those vintage black powder weapons. That killed it for me. While I have always enjoyed the fast draw performances, I've seen several of those by people using full power ammo and those are truly impressive. Doing it with target loads just doesn't generate the same excitement. Not for me anyway. If that is disrespect, then so be it. That's why when I got into loading the .45 Colt, use of TB was never even considered.
__________________
Vietnam Combat Vet - U.S. Navy 1970-1974
NRA Benefactor Life Member

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice - Barry Goldwater
When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance becomes Duty - Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 11-27-2019, 01:46 PM
Rifter's Avatar
Rifter Rifter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The People's Republic of Illinois, most corrupt state in the Union.
Posts: 5,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealGun View Post
Or one could just accept that Lee knows what they are doing, not reflexively disrespected. Try to comprehend the formula, but it really doesn't matter, once you have a list of relative numbers. If a powder is not on the list, one can use a measure of known cc value and then weigh it on powder scales. Your formula would then be better stated as grains per cc, not your inverse, resulting in a fraction of a cc, whatever value that would be.



With Lee, their approach is certainly not what I would call precision. No matter how careful you are, there is no way you can use dippers and expect any kind of precision. For making plinking ammo for shooting tin cans, etc., it is adequate at best. Even the RCBS Little Dandy powder dispenser with the precut rotors is way more precise than Lee, and I never considered loading anything better than practice ammo with that. I've tried just about every kind of reloading gear one can get except Comdex stuff, and Lee in general is so far below most of it, that it is laughable. I guess it all depends on what you are willing to accept as the low end.
__________________
Vietnam Combat Vet - U.S. Navy 1970-1974
NRA Benefactor Life Member

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice - Barry Goldwater
When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance becomes Duty - Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 12-11-2019, 06:48 AM
RealGun RealGun is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 1,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifter View Post
Well, part of the problem is that TB has always been mismarketed in my opinion. That is due in large part to the idea that cowboy loads as used in Cowboy matches are not loaded to realistic levels. A real cowboy from 1875 would throw such loads into the nearest horse trough. But, that's what Trail Boss was designed to do. For the smarter people who want better performance in terms of consistent ignition (along with not having to fool with powder position in that big old case) try to make it do things it isn't meant to do.


In my case, I set out from the beginning looking for components that would let me load full power (black powder equivalent) with smokeless. I ruled out TB right from the jump because I knew it couldn't cut it at that level. I also ruled out 98% of the typical pistol powders normally listed in the manuals for the .45 Colt because they couldn't meet load density criteria or consistency criteria without exceeding safe pressures (again I was trying to stay within black powder pressure levels). The only powder I've found that even came close was A5744, but it was not that great either. That left N32C Tin Star, and that happily does it all, and it has proven to be a very versatile powder in every vintage type cartridge I've tried it in. My hat is off to Vihtavuori for some superb chemistry.
A check of Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star load data shows that it runs too fast for the 1000 fps limit for pistols by SASS rules. It also uses heavier bullets to contain velocity than a typical CAS shooter would use to limit recoil and expense. That would make Trailboss the better choice for cowboy action velocities.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:09 AM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved