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  #1  
Old 11-23-2019, 06:13 PM
Fafhrd Fafhrd is offline
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Springfiled Champion problem and Springfield CS

I’m new here and apologize for immediately complaining about something, but I’d like to get your thoughts about an issue I’m having with SA customer service.

I have a Springfield Champion that ejects its spent cases straight back into my face with great velocity. I shot only 3 magazines through it because I was afraid one of the cases would break my shooting glasses and put out an eye—that’s how hard they were hitting me. I called Springfield, got a return label, and sent it back. Yesterday (about 3 weeks later) I got an email saying I needed to call them.

The woman I spoke to said that because this is a GI (actually it’s a mil-spec, but whatever) without a lowered ejection port, it is SUPPOSED TO EJECT THE CASES STRAIGHT BACK TO MY FACE!!!! She said Springfield would lower the ejection port and install a different ejector, but only if I pay them $90.

I said I’ve shot other mil-spec 1911s with non-lowered ports and they don’t do this, and furthermore no gun is “supposed to” do this, but she was just reading the message sent from their repair shop and kept insisting that this was normal for “GI models.” I maybe should have asked to speak to her boss then and there, but it was just about time for them to close on a Friday, so I said I was going to ask for advice on a 1911 forum and get back with her on Monday.

Some further info: Though only 3 magazines have been shot through this gun, it’s an older model made in Brazil with a steel frame. I bought it new about 14 years ago but broke my wrist in a dozen places before I had a chance to shoot it. For 14 years the gun sat in my safe, until I took it to the range last month and shot it for the first time.

I’ve had a few other guns occasionally eject a spent case back at my face, but this thing does it consistently and with great force. It’s clearly a defective weapon IMO, and I surely believe Springfield’s lifetime warranty should cover the repair. It amazes me that they should claim this is normal and is “supposed to” happen with any 1911 that doesn’t have a lowered port.

So I’m seeking some advice from you good and wise folks. Am I right in thinking Springfield should fix this on their dime, and if so, what can I do to get Springfield to do the right thing?
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  #2  
Old 11-23-2019, 08:39 PM
Jolly Rogers Jolly Rogers is offline
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Sounds like some tuning to the extractor and ejector could improve the performance without milling the ejection port. It sounds like the case is getting wacked by the slide as it rotates out.
Joe
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  #3  
Old 11-23-2019, 09:08 PM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is online now
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First range session after 14 years of ownership is a tough sell, I gather.


And so is the fact that the customer service person told you"

1) "The gun is supposed to eject brass into your face"

2) "to ask for advice on a 1911 forum"


Are you sure you weren't speaking to the folks at Kimber customer support ?




Seriously.......the folks further up the food chain at Springfield need to know about this horrid instruction you were given from this person.

No gun is supposed to eject brass in your face.

Instructing a customer to seek advice on the internet forums is preposterous. For liability reasons alone....this is an unacceptable practice for a company representative to dole out. They need to know they have some serious retraining needed.




Now.....as far as the lifetime warranty.....were you to have found defects in the frame or slide, I would expect them to fully support you.

Springs and magazines are consumables and 14 years should, in my opinion, relieve them from any responsibility to resolve matters related to them.

I don't feel like your gun is defective. I think it's simply set up wrong.

It's the sort of thing that would be noticed on the first session. I don't think that it's reasonable for them to be asked to resolve such an issue after 14 years.

Have you checked extractor tension ?

Chances are a small adjustment with the extractor and some new springs and you'll be fine.







Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Rogers View Post
Sounds like some tuning to the extractor and ejector could improve the performance without milling the ejection port. It sounds like the case is getting wacked by the slide as it rotates out.
Joe
Agreed.

Seems like just the kind of thing that 1911-lovers do as needed.
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  #4  
Old 11-23-2019, 09:20 PM
Billy1911 Billy1911 is offline
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Fafhrd :

My take looking at this from the outside in . Is the pistol new ? Yes and No . Its 14 years
old , but its never been fired . Yes their is a lifetime warranty on failure to work , but the
pistol works , just not the way you want it to . Personally after 14 years of not shooting
the pistol , I would not care or get on a blame game deal . I'd pay the 90.00 and I'd pay
to have them replace the springs in the pistol as well . I would look at it as a freshen up
and adjustment after 14 years , pay the money , and shoot the snot out of it . Then if it
screws up , its on them .

Just my take .
Bill

Oh and I can tell you no other manufacture would do anything at all for you . SA is paying
for the shipping too and from that is 60.00 right there free . You could look at it as you are
really only paying 30.00 for the repair . With cars its 3 years OR 36,000 miles which ever
comes first .
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SA Lipsey's 9mm Combat Operator /SACS-RO Champion / SACS -Mod Longslide / SACS TGO-1 / SACS Professional w/rail / SA TRP / Wilson CQB / Kimber CDP II / HK P30L / DW Target .
Lots and Lots of plastic army men with a Guns of Navarone play set / A huge Star Wars Clone Army fighting with the Jedi Pre-order 66

Last edited by Billy1911; 11-23-2019 at 09:31 PM.
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  #5  
Old 11-24-2019, 12:40 PM
mochahooligan mochahooligan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy1911 View Post
Fafhrd :

My take looking at this from the outside in . Is the pistol new ? Yes and No . Its 14 years
old , but its never been fired . Yes their is a lifetime warranty on failure to work , but the
pistol works , just not the way you want it to . Personally after 14 years of not shooting
the pistol , I would not care or get on a blame game deal . I'd pay the 90.00 and I'd pay
to have them replace the springs in the pistol as well . I would look at it as a freshen up
and adjustment after 14 years , pay the money , and shoot the snot out of it . Then if it
screws up , its on them .

Just my take .
Bill

Oh and I can tell you no other manufacture would do anything at all for you . SA is paying
for the shipping too and from that is 60.00 right there free . You could look at it as you are
really only paying 30.00 for the repair . With cars its 3 years OR 36,000 miles which ever
comes first .
Agreed. I bought a NIB TRP Champion about 3 years ago. Frame made in Brazil also. I shot it and the front sight moved to the right. I know its an older SA that has sat since the original buy bought it. I was planning on getting night sights anyway, so a call to Deb at the CS and sent the slide out. Week later back on the gun and zero problems. i know its not the ejector but it was a NIB that was almost 14 years old also.
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  #6  
Old 11-24-2019, 01:58 PM
Fafhrd Fafhrd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubfromGa View Post

Instructing a customer to seek advice on the internet forums is preposterous. For liability reasons alone....this is an unacceptable practice for a company representative to dole out. They need to know they have some serious retraining needed.
I should have been clearer in my original post. The CS rep didn't suggest that I seek advice from an internet forum. I was the one who told her I'd do that before making a decision about paying $90 and having them lower the port.

Many thanks to everyone for your kind and helpful replies.
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  #7  
Old 11-24-2019, 03:50 PM
cwo4uscgret cwo4uscgret is offline
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A Tale of Two Customer Service Experiences

I once had a terrible Customer Service issue with Springfield. Turned me off from buying any of their products.

I acquired a S&W built Walther PPK/S that was missing both the safety detent spring and worse, the extractor. Someone loaned it to a friend to shoot and it came back that way. I had read somewhere that Walther USA was now working on S&W built PPK/S pistols. After contacting Walther I received a form (with their assigned Case Number) to complete and send the gun to them. I was told they would evaluate the pistol, send me a proposed invoice, and upon payment return the pistol.

Well darn - I received an e-mail from Walther telling me to expect delivery of a package the next day. Inside the package was my PPK/S, repaired, with parts replaced, under warranty!

Well played Walther USA, well played indeed!
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  #8  
Old 11-24-2019, 04:32 PM
Fafhrd Fafhrd is offline
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Today I wrote a long and (I hope) friendly email to Springfield. I'll let you folks know how this turns out. Thanks very much for all of your replies.
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  #9  
Old 11-25-2019, 04:06 PM
Fafhrd Fafhrd is offline
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As I posted above, Sunday I sent a long email to a CS rep. He replied today (Monday) and said the repair would be free. Springfield has some helpful CS reps, and if you have a problem with the folks on the phone it's worth the effort to send an email.
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  #10  
Old 12-01-2019, 06:53 AM
blanchard7684 blanchard7684 is offline
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My RO Elite 9mm would send one back every so often. The extractor was actually a bit too tight...I relaxed it a bit and it was fine.

Going into a 1911, knowing how to tune an extractor is essential.
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  #11  
Old 12-13-2019, 04:28 PM
Fafhrd Fafhrd is offline
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A quick update: The gun arrived today, 5 weeks after SA received it. They did lower and flare the ejection port, though I didn’t request this, and the job was professionally and cleanly done. Either they re-Parkerized the whole slide or else coated the cut with something that matches perfectly. I can’t tell; the slide looks great now, but it looked great before I sent it in. I doubt the cutting was necessary, as I can’t believe the gun with the original non-lowered port was “supposed to” fire spent cases straight back at my face, as I was told by a CS rep over the phone, but it does no harm, and I have no complaints about it.

Springfield also replaced the extractor and replaced the ejector with an extended 9mm ejector. Why 9mm in a .45 caliber gun I can’t say, but this one is considerably longer than the extremely short original ejector. My guess is that the original short ejector was the cause of the problem, but I don’t know for sure.

The packing list says the gun was safety checked and tested, but if they test fired it they must have cleaned the bore afterward, as it shows no powder residue. I like to shoot at an outdoor range, but since it’s closed for winter I guess I’ll have to try an indoor one to see if the gun ejects properly now. It may be a while before I get a chance.

Lowering the ejection port was why they originally wanted me to pay for custom work, even though the malfunction was clearly a manufacturing issue and should have been covered according to the wording of their lifetime warranty. As I explained in an earlier post, after some email exchanges, they agreed to do this for free.

The packing list has a rather stern warning: “The custom work performed on this pistol was at no charge at this time. Any further custom work done will be at full price including labor, refinishing, and shipping & handling.” I hope if there are still ejection problems, Springfield will fix them under warranty instead of considering them “custom work.” But maybe not, since their stated attitude is that this weapon is “supposed to” eject cases straight back at the shooter’s face.

Anyway, if it works properly now, I’ll be quite happy. I like having a Champion with a steel frame—if it works.
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  #12  
Old 12-13-2019, 06:50 PM
shooter59 shooter59 is offline
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Test shoot it first, post later would be my move......
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  #13  
Old 12-15-2019, 08:50 AM
Billy1911 Billy1911 is offline
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Hopefully you will not wait 14 years to shoot it this time . I'am thinking in the next
3 months we should hear how the pistol works .
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SA Lipsey's 9mm Combat Operator /SACS-RO Champion / SACS -Mod Longslide / SACS TGO-1 / SACS Professional w/rail / SA TRP / Wilson CQB / Kimber CDP II / HK P30L / DW Target .
Lots and Lots of plastic army men with a Guns of Navarone play set / A huge Star Wars Clone Army fighting with the Jedi Pre-order 66
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  #14  
Old 12-15-2019, 10:45 AM
Zippo Guy Zippo Guy is offline
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You seem very hung up on the "supposed to" part of this. Get over it and shoot it. They made an effort to move forward, now you do the same.
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