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  #76  
Old 02-24-2020, 04:39 PM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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Originally Posted by Culpepper Cattle Co. View Post
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Originally Posted by papafluff View Post
Really???? 😂
Note how you ignored the smiley and the "kidding aside"? Much like you're ignoring the overwhelming consensus of replies in both of your threads? [IMG class=inlineimg]https://forums.1911forum.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]

Ok ya got me. I’ve gone back through and read all your responses and I will say you have tried to stress your point in a joking way and I can laugh at myself as well. I think we have both misunderstood each other and for my part I whole heartedly apologize. Now that I step back and look at this from your angle I can see where you were just trying to help and when the rubber hits the road that’s why I’m here. So again I apologize for any thing you may have found offensive and I honestly thank you for taking the time to help 🤝
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  #77  
Old 02-24-2020, 06:38 PM
Culpepper Cattle Co. Culpepper Cattle Co. is offline
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Originally Posted by papafluff View Post
Ok ya got me. Iíve gone back through and read all your responses and I will say you have tried to stress your point in a joking way and I can laugh at myself as well. I think we have both misunderstood each other and for my part I whole heartedly apologize. Now that I step back and look at this from your angle I can see where you were just trying to help and when the rubber hits the road thatís why Iím here. So again I apologize for any thing you may have found offensive and I honestly thank you for taking the time to help 🤝
There are times I really wish this forum had a "Like" button; this is one of them. Fine post. My apologies if my intent wasn't initially clear -- glad it eventually came through.

I hope ultimately your DW is what you're looking for and will make you happy. If at the end of the day it isn't and doesn't, what's great about 1911s is there are so many to choose from -- one will be right for you.
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  #78  
Old 02-24-2020, 06:44 PM
Bradd D Bradd D is offline
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  #79  
Old 02-25-2020, 05:32 AM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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Originally Posted by Culpepper Cattle Co. View Post
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Originally Posted by papafluff View Post
Ok ya got me. I’ve gone back through and read all your responses and I will say you have tried to stress your point in a joking way and I can laugh at myself as well. I think we have both misunderstood each other and for my part I whole heartedly apologize. Now that I step back and look at this from your angle I can see where you were just trying to help and when the rubber hits the road that’s why I’m here. So again I apologize for any thing you may have found offensive and I honestly thank you for taking the time to help 🤝
There are times I really wish this forum had a "Like" button; this is one of them. Fine post. My apologies if my intent wasn't initially clear -- glad it eventually came through.

I hope ultimately your DW is what you're looking for and will make you happy. If at the end of the day it isn't and doesn't, what's great about 1911s is there are so many to choose from -- one will be right for you. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://forums.1911forum.com/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]

Thank you (I too would hit that like button right now)
More often than not it’s harder to accept an apology than to give one and you did both. Really miss judged here and feeling like a fool. So I’m sending out a blanket apologize to all who took the time to read and respond. Regardless of wether it’s what I wanted to hear or not you took the time to read and respond. THANK YOU TO ALL!!!
Especially to you sir (culpepper) you just never gave up. I don’t think I would of done the same if the shoe was on the other foot. Commendable to say the least. So I hold out my 1911 (olive branch) and hope that any I may have offended will accept it. Now over the last couple days I took my Valkyrie and visited at least a dozen gun shops and spoke with a half a dozen gunsmiths. The information I gathered was interesting and informative (I kept hearing an echo lol) I will share it all but right now I have a busy day ahead. I’m a little behind on some things because of my obsession lmao. I just love laughing at myself and please feel free to laugh along with me 😂
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  #80  
Old 02-26-2020, 05:28 PM
Fatboy46 Fatboy46 is offline
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Originally Posted by papafluff View Post
Hi all
I recently purchased my first DW itís a Valkyrie in 45. Iíve consistently read everywhere how exceptional the fit is on these guns but without owning any other DWís I canít compare. First the machining on my gun is exceptional. No tool marks no burrs no sharp edges and all surfaces are flat parallel and true. Being a retired toolmaker of 40+ years I know good machining when I see it. But this is where it stops. The actual numbers on my gun confuse me because I have no base to compare to. I have .002-.0025 clearance between barrel and bushing. I have the same .002-.0025 between bushing and slide. I have .003-.004 clearance on all dimensions between slide and frame fit. The fit between slide stop pin and lower barrel lugs is good real good. Iím getting.04 of actual upper lug engagement out of a possible.048. Yes itís actually.008 away from actually making any contact with slide in the vertical lockup. I have researched this in another post and found this is common in any production based gun. My barrel hood is fit very well also with no more than .001 clearance on any given side. My biggest concern is the slide to frame fit. In my opinion itís quite sloppy. Iím really looking for numbers from other DW owners to see if this is normal or did I get one that slipped through QC. I really appreciate any insight you other DW owners or 1911 owners in general can give me
does it shoot to your satisfaction? That would be the issue. If not- send it back, ask them to peen the rails and give you a tight slide that you have to 'shoot in'..
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  #81  
Old 02-26-2020, 06:03 PM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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does it shoot to your satisfaction? That would be the issue. If not- send it back, ask them to peen the rails and give you a tight slide that you have to 'shoot in'..[/QUOTE]


I’ve really got no complaints about how it shoots. I haven’t shot it as much as I’d like due to the weather. But really wasn’t what I was curious about. The slide to frame fit is just one of many on a 1911. As i stated everything else I’ve checked is really good and the actual machine work is outstanding. It just seemed the slide to frame fit on my gun seemed excessive compared to all I’ve read how tight Dan Wesson’s are. I’ve never owned one (Dan Wesson) so I figured I’d reach out and compare to others.
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  #82  
Old 02-26-2020, 08:14 PM
LWMac LWMac is offline
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Three 9mm Valkyrie (commander barrel; officer grip) through here. One is now a bullseye gun with red-dot sight! In other words it shoots very well. One with replaced, adjustable iron sights is shot in indoor action competition. In other words it shoots very well . . and one new-in-box for a fan of high quality. All are tight and have very good parts that fit. I too like to measure things, but it is performance that counts.
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  #83  
Old 02-27-2020, 07:08 AM
Kcdub1000 Kcdub1000 is offline
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Originally Posted by ether View Post
You're OCD'ing that gun to death. I've been there. If you can't detect *some* movement between a 1911's slide and frame, someone placed form over function. I don't trust a 1911 that doesn't have a little slop. It has nothing to do with accuracy.
Well actually it dose. In the 1911 design The link is attached to the frame via slide stop/ lock and the barrel locks agenst the slide And slide stop on lower lugs. If Things are not returing to battery the exact same every time then you have slop. Which in turn affects accuracy. It all matters if a accurate gun is what your after. If accuracy is not a concern then by all means slop away. Other pistol designs arnt as effected by slide to frame fit.

Last edited by Kcdub1000; 02-27-2020 at 07:10 AM.
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  #84  
Old 02-27-2020, 01:12 PM
scott007 scott007 is offline
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DW fit

I own 5 Dan Wessons, in 45ACP and 9mm, in gov't & commander sizes. Extremely pleased with fit and finish on all, and how they all perform. I can't recall ever taking a measurement, except when I replaced some sights. I wouldn't even know what the standard tolerances would be for DW 1911s, other production 1911s, or custom 1911s. But I am fine with the ones I shoot.
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  #85  
Old 02-27-2020, 05:54 PM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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I’m very fond of this gun. I currently own around 2 dozen handguns and my Dan Wesson is on the top of the heap. I never said I was having problems. I know all about the slide frame fit vs accuracy. That is a topic that’s been discussed to death. If you just look at the mechanics of how a 1911 works it becomes self explanatory. The only purpose of this post was out of curiosity. Never owning a Dan Wesson in fact I never even handled one until mine and reading everywhere how tight they were I was CURIOUS. So I posted in the gunsmith section what is considered tight fit. Until you put numbers on that it’s just wide open to opinion and speculation. It was made quite clear what is considered tight fit with actual numbers. So now with the information of what is actually tight fit I reached out to other Dan Wesson owners for the numbers on their guns (slide to frame) to compare to mine. Nothing more nothing less. Seemed pretty simple to me
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  #86  
Old 02-28-2020, 10:26 AM
Kcdub1000 Kcdub1000 is offline
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Seems pretty simple to me to. I dont think that many people have a 300.00 starratt mic laying around much less know how to use it. Hints all the "just shoot it comments".and lack of numbers. Maybe take your mic to a gun shop and start measuring some DW that way you know the measurements are done correctly... Or call DW and see what there tolerance is and what they consider tight.
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  #87  
Old 02-28-2020, 12:59 PM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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Originally Posted by Kcdub1000 View Post
Seems pretty simple to me to. I dont think that many people have a 300.00 starratt mic laying around much less know how to use it. Hints all the "just shoot it comments".and lack of numbers. Maybe take your mic to a gun shop and start measuring some DW that way you know the measurements are done correctly... Or call DW and see what there tolerance is and what they consider tight.

This is some very sound and good advice. I don’t see a lot if any DW’s in the gun shops around here and trust me I will not buy another gun sight unseen. I’m not down playing Dan Wesson at all in fact I stated the actual machine work is exceptional. Being able to buy virtually any gun you want online is great but there’s drawbacks. My Valkyrie is beautiful except for the frame to slide fit. I have sent an email to them and will see what their thoughts are
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  #88  
Old 03-01-2020, 10:52 AM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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I’ve read a lot of posts on this forum regarding this topic. Seems like I’m certainly not alone
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  #89  
Old 03-01-2020, 01:41 PM
Bradd D Bradd D is offline
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Again, if you don't like it, sell the gun.


Last edited by Bradd D; 03-01-2020 at 01:44 PM.
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  #90  
Old 03-01-2020, 04:32 PM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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Originally Posted by Bradd D View Post
Again, if you don't like it, sell the gun.


Lmao love it 😂
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  #91  
Old 03-02-2020, 07:42 PM
ether ether is offline
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Originally Posted by Kcdub1000 View Post
Well actually it dose. In the 1911 design The link is attached to the frame via slide stop/ lock and the barrel locks agenst the slide And slide stop on lower lugs. If Things are not returing to battery the exact same every time then you have slop. Which in turn affects accuracy. It all matters if a accurate gun is what your after. If accuracy is not a concern then by all means slop away. Other pistol designs arnt as effected by slide to frame fit.
You're really talking about barrel to slide fit and to a lesser degree barrel to frame fit, which definitely do matter. The slide to frame fit might affect accuracy by as much as 5% all else being equal, which wouldn't even be noticeable to most.
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  #92  
Old 03-02-2020, 09:12 PM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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When the barrel locks up tight verticaly (hard fit) into the slide then the slide to frame fit is not as relevant to accuracy as long as your not using frame mounted sighting. But production guns do not have hard fit barrels thus the slide to frame fit becomes more important to accuracy along with barrel to bushing to slide and barrel hood to slide
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  #93  
Old 03-03-2020, 02:50 AM
Bradd D Bradd D is offline
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How accurate is the gun?
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  #94  
Old 03-03-2020, 12:51 PM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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Originally Posted by Bradd D View Post
How accurate is the gun?
4” groups @25yrds with a flyer about every 10 shots
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  #95  
Old 03-03-2020, 02:02 PM
Bradd D Bradd D is offline
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Originally Posted by papafluff View Post
4Ē groups @25yrds with a flyer about every 10 shots
Offhand?
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  #96  
Old 03-03-2020, 02:56 PM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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No precision pistol rest
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  #97  
Old 03-03-2020, 04:04 PM
Bradd D Bradd D is offline
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I suspect you won't know the effect that the fit of the slide and frame has on accuracy until you address other issues.
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  #98  
Old 03-05-2020, 03:56 AM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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Originally Posted by Bradd D View Post
I suspect you won't know the effect that the fit of the slide and frame has on accuracy until you address other issues.
There’s really no other issues with the gun. As I stated before. I’m not even saying the slide to frame fit is an issue. It was simply an observation that I looked to compare with other owners
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  #99  
Old 03-06-2020, 12:12 PM
ether ether is offline
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No machine is perfect. The barrel to slide fit matters most, and then comes the barrel to frame fit. If the slide to frame fit is so perfect that it WON'T allow a natural barrel-to-slide and barrel-to-frame arrangement, then you've spoiled the pistol. It will never be "right" until you wear it in enough to give the slide and frame room to breathe!

And this is what some call a "hard fit". I call it "lazy" and "presumptuous". I've a couple of "hard fit" Les Baers. You know what I ended up with after I broke them in? A really tight barrel to slide fit and a noticeable play between the slide and frame. And they're just as accurate as the day I started shooting them, except I trust them more now that they're "worn in". YMMV

Last edited by ether; 03-06-2020 at 06:19 PM.
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  #100  
Old 03-06-2020, 03:10 PM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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Originally Posted by ether View Post
No machine is perfect. The barrel to slide fit matters most, and then comes the barrel to frame fit. If the slide to frame fit is so perfect that it WON'T allow a natural barrel-to-slide and barrel-to-frame arrangement, then you've spoiled the pistol. It will never be "right" until you wear it in enough to give the slide and frame room to breathe!

And this is what some call a "hard fit. I call it "lazy" and "presumptuous". I've a couple of "hard fit" Les Baers. You know what I ended up with after I broke them in? A really tight barrel to slide fit and a noticeable play between the slide and frame. And they're just as accurate as the day I started shooting them, except I trust them more now that they're "worn in". YMMV
I conquer. As I stated a proper barrel to slide fit eliminates the effect of slide to frame fit when accuracy is concerned. What do you mean when you refer to barrel to frame fit?
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