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Old 12-24-2017, 01:32 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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Bull barrel vs regular one with bushing in a full size model

Just curious for those that may have both how much difference is there in perceived recoil and or follow up shots in a full size gun with a bushingless bull barrel and one without? What is the real weight difference and can you 'feel' that as an advantage over a normal full size gun that has bushing and normal barrel? Seems like weight may be 'same'.
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Old 12-24-2017, 01:52 PM
gi1964 gi1964 is online now
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My full CQB (.45) with bull barrel is my softest shooting pistol. Perceived Recoil is less and returns to target quickly for me. This compares to other full size including railed model.


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Old 12-24-2017, 02:41 PM
45caldude 45caldude is offline
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The flange weighs about a 1/2 ounce more per Wilson vs coned barrel. Reference from post #4. However, I personally can tell a difference between the bull vs flanged on recoil / follow up shots

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=463450
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  #4  
Old 12-24-2017, 02:52 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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If one is seeking a real, noticeable gain, a heavy flanged bull barrel is the way to go. E.g., Wilson's TE or Stealth models.

Otherwise, the "gain" is likely to be somewhere between imperceptible and rather small.

Just opinion. Of course, there will always be a person for whom a rather small benefit is really important. And for that person, well, that importance is the bottom line. Each person has their own "tipping points" at which an improvement becomes important.

With all of our recent discussions in this sub-forum about Wilson's latest "X-" or "EDC-" offerings, it is wise not to forget about the superb TE and Stealth models. These are superb shooters, and remain IMHO, among the very best of Wilson's total portfolio of firearms.
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Old 12-24-2017, 03:07 PM
Live2Ride Live2Ride is offline
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I don't notice a difference between a bull/cone barrel and a bushing barrel. I would only spec the bull/cone for aesthetic reasons. A flanged barrel makes a difference, though.
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Old 12-24-2017, 05:23 PM
L84CABO L84CABO is offline
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Minimal difference. I have a 5 in CQB that I ordered both barrels for....errr...the heavy cone bull barrel, not the one with the giant flange on it. The bull changes the balance of the gun ever so slightly. If you blindfolded me and handed me the gun I MIGHT be able to tell you which barrel is in it. Or rather, I probably could based on the initial feel of the gun, not from how it recoils. Recoil is a very slight difference.

But as someone else said, the aesthetics of a bull barrel is kinda nice...at least I think so. And particularly if you're going to flush cut and reverse crown it. I would definitely go with a bull if I was going to do that. Recognize, however, that a bull barrel in a 5 inch gun will likely make the gun ineligible in many competition categories. So if that's something important to you, you should either go with the regular barrel or order both. And to that end, it's kinda fun playing with both. I ordered the gun with a single piece solid FLGR...the one with the little hole that needs a pin for takedown, and also with the standard length GI guide rod and bushing. All the pieces are interchangeable...meaning each barrel will work with either guide rod configuration.

I should clarify...you can certainly tell the difference between the regular barrel and regular guide rod vs. the bull barrel and FLGR. The difference in recoil is still minor but much more noticeable. Determining the difference in recoil when only the barrel changes is much more subtle...if we're trying to isolate the effects of just the bull barrel.
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Old 12-24-2017, 06:58 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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Thanks for the responses. I have a few full size guns. For some reason the flanged barrels don't appeal to me. Yes unfortunately I enjoy how a gun looks just as much as how it shoots. Was thinking about a CQB Elite in 10mm with a flush cut reverse crown bull barrel in it. Might even do it in gray Armor Tuff too.

Rather than starting another thread the only difference I can see between a CQB and a CQB Elite is the magwell. But for the difference in each ones starting price there has to be more?
What am I missing?
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Old 12-24-2017, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62Kolectr View Post
Thanks for the responses. I have a few full size guns. For some reason the flanged barrels don't appeal to me. Yes unfortunately I enjoy how a gun looks just as much as how it shoots. Was thinking about a CQB Elite in 10mm with a flush cut reverse crown bull barrel in it. Might even do it in gray Armor Tuff too.

Rather than starting another thread the only difference I can see between a CQB and a CQB Elite is the magwell. But for the difference in each ones starting price there has to be more?
What am I missing?
Besides the magwell, the CQB Elite also has the slide top serrations, rear of slide serrations, and front cocking serrations. At $560 difference, take the one-piece magwell at $250, the slide top serrations at $125, the rear of slide serrations at $50 dollars, and the front cocking serrations at $150 and the CQB Elite save you $15 - some folks don't want the front cocking serrations and save an additional $150 by starting with the CQB and adding the few options they DO want. It is a personal taste thing really, and if the few extra things the CQBe offers is what you want, you save a little (not much, but a little). Other than that, they are the same gun.
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Old 12-24-2017, 07:23 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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Thanks. I can do without the FCS and serrations on rear of slide. I do like the top done though. So yeah it'll probably be better to do as you said and build 'up' from a CQB instead of down from the Elite.
I have a Beretta I had them do and the gray came out quite nice. There is a gray full size gun on Gunbroker and it also looks nice. Would make for a nice unique looking gun to pass down.
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Old 12-24-2017, 08:01 PM
Live2Ride Live2Ride is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62Kolectr View Post
Thanks for the responses. I have a few full size guns. For some reason the flanged barrels don't appeal to me. Yes unfortunately I enjoy how a gun looks just as much as how it shoots. Was thinking about a CQB Elite in 10mm with a flush cut reverse crown bull barrel in it. Might even do it in gray Armor Tuff too.

Rather than starting another thread the only difference I can see between a CQB and a CQB Elite is the magwell. But for the difference in each ones starting price there has to be more?
What am I missing?
I like the flanged barrels, but it completely depends on the overall build. I don't think they look good on every gun. If a build has a more purposeful look, the flanged barrel looks pretty good. For instance, I think they look completely wrong on a gun that is supposed to be dressed up or fancy, but they look good with a more "tactical" style build. Part of what makes the flanged barrel look good on that kind of build is the actual function it has. It just adds to the complete package, and I find that attractive. But again, the flanged barrel doesn't look right on every gun, to my eyes.
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Old 12-24-2017, 08:32 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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I'm probably one of the last persons to ask about aesthetics, but a key difference is simply whether someone likes the "old-time industrial look" of a barrel fitted in a barrel bushing, and the barrel bushing being fitted to the slide ... and ingeniously retaining everything via locking the recoil spring plug in place. (And it is truly ingenious in comparison to retention methods used prior to the 1911 design).
All visible to the eye.

Other people aren't so fond of such an "old-time industrial look", preferring instead a sleek exterior appearance, with the internals (recoil spring, etc.) being held together with internal design elements.

Both seem to me to be perfectly reasonable aesthetic preferences. But they are for different people. Personally, I prefer what I've described as the old-time industrial look ... and this probably explains why I don't "get" most modern art.

The flanged barrel, of course, is a different variation ... To most people, its beauty is probably more in its functionality. Same with integral compensators.

Something for everyone.
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Old 12-25-2017, 06:45 AM
R0CKETMAN R0CKETMAN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62Kolectr View Post
Thanks for the responses. I have a few full size guns. For some reason the flanged barrels don't appeal to me. Yes unfortunately I enjoy how a gun looks just as much as how it shoots. Was thinking about a CQB Elite in 10mm with a flush cut reverse crown bull barrel in it. Might even do it in gray Armor Tuff too.

Rather than starting another thread the only difference I can see between a CQB and a CQB Elite is the magwell. But for the difference in each ones starting price there has to be more?
What am I missing?
Iíd be looking at a flanged bbl on a 10mm. Suppose it would be next to impossible to shoot with / without prior to purchasing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62Kolectr View Post
Thanks. I can do without the FCS and serrations on rear of slide. I do like the top done though. So yeah it'll probably be better to do as you said and build 'up' from a CQB instead of down from the Elite.
I have a Beretta I had them do and the gray came out quite nice. There is a gray full size gun on Gunbroker and it also looks nice. Would make for a nice unique looking gun to pass down.
FCS arenít standard on a CQB, but they are on most all Iíve seen...except mine
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Old 12-25-2017, 07:07 AM
45caldude 45caldude is offline
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Originally Posted by chrysanthemum View Post
The flanged barrel, of course, is a different variation ... To most people, its beauty is probably more in its functionality. Same with integral compensators.

Something for everyone.
+1911

This is how I see the beauty in the flanged and compensators.

I'm with L2R and I like them on the right builds. I really like the cco size flange setups.
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Old 12-25-2017, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by R0CKETMAN View Post
Iíd be looking at a flanged bbl on a 10mm. Suppose it would be next to impossible to shoot with / without prior to purchasing.



FCS arenít standard on a CQB, but they are on most all Iíve seen...except mine
I pretty much agree with your sentiments on the 10mm - I would at least get a flanged barrel, but if I were ordering one right now I would be ordering it with a comped barrel.

And most of my CQB guns have no FCS, I don't prefer them on mine but I don't consider them a deal breaker either if I see one that has all the other stuff I want on it.
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Old 12-25-2017, 03:12 PM
bimmerland bimmerland is offline
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If you want to keep the total weight of the firearm down the bushed barrel will weigh much less than a bull barrel. Also the lighter barrel may improve overall balance.
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Old 12-25-2017, 03:17 PM
greghaz greghaz is offline
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Originally Posted by Live2Ride View Post
I like the flanged barrels, but it completely depends on the overall build. I don't think they look good on every gun. If a build has a more purposeful look, the flanged barrel looks pretty good. For instance, I think they look completely wrong on a gun that is supposed to be dressed up or fancy, but they look good with a more "tactical" style build. Part of what makes the flanged barrel look good on that kind of build is the actual function it has. It just adds to the complete package, and I find that attractive. But again, the flanged barrel doesn't look right on every gun, to my eyes.
Agreed.
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Old 12-25-2017, 05:10 PM
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While not exactly an apples to apples comparison, I've noticed that my STI Guardian 3.9 is slightly softer shooting than my Nighthawk Dominator.

That is using handloads tuned to make 127 power factor out of each gun, so the bullet velocity is the same in the 3.9" as the 5". Obvously, the shorter barreled STI is much softer shooting when running the same ammo.

The STI has a bull barrel and weighs 37.5 oz. The Nighthawk has a bushing barrel and weight 43.0 oz., so you'd think the heavier Nighthawk would have the advantage.
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Old 12-25-2017, 07:52 PM
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Can a bull barrel eventually wear out the slide? Where as with a barrel bushing just the bushing needs replaced?
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Old 12-25-2017, 07:59 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Can a bull barrel eventually wear out the slide? Where as with a barrel bushing just the bushing needs replaced?
Not in a lifetime of normal use and proper lubrication.

By the time -- if ever, perhaps in a future generation -- that such wear might become a problem, the user will have gone through an extraordinary quantity and cost of ammo. And a lot of other components will be worn.
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Old 12-25-2017, 08:04 PM
mtn586 mtn586 is offline
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Bull vs Bushing

I have pistols both ways. In my opinion I prefer the standard bushing & barrel setup. The bull setup has less perceived recoil for me but seems to be nose heavy on the follow up shot. This may be because I have shot a standard barrel with bushing setup since the 70s and it just shoots differently. For me the bull setup does not return to the original point of aim without me forcing it and the standard with a bushing does. I can still shoot well with the bull setup but it takes a little effort where the standard & bushing just drops right on target for me.
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Old 12-25-2017, 08:13 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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Originally Posted by chrysanthemum View Post
Not in a lifetime of normal use and proper lubrication.

By the time -- if ever, perhaps in a future generation -- that such wear might become a problem, the user will have gone through an extraordinary quantity and cost of ammo. And a lot of other components will be worn.
Good question and answer. Thank you


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Originally Posted by mtn586 View Post
I have pistols both ways. In my opinion I prefer the standard bushing & barrel setup. The bull setup has less perceived recoil for me but seems to be nose heavy on the follow up shot. This may be because I have shot a standard barrel with bushing setup since the 70s and it just shoots differently. For me the bull setup does not return to the original point of aim without me forcing it and the standard with a bushing does. I can still shoot well with the bull setup but it takes a little effort where the standard & bushing just drops right on target for me.
Interesting observation and first hand exp is what I was looking for.
Thank you

Do you think your response would be same for a different caliber like 10mm?
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Old 12-25-2017, 08:45 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Good question and answer. Thank you




Interesting observation and first hand exp is what I was looking for.
Thank you

Do you think your response would be same for a different caliber like 10mm?
Thank You in return and Merry Christmas!

Personally -- just opinion here, no more -- I feel that a 5" barrel, 45acp chambering 1911 is my limit for a barrel bushing.

Others feel comfortable with "upping" the stress level to a 4.25", 45acp chambering Commander. That's fine as well, but just not my preference.

Going upwards with more power, as in a 10mm chambering, is placing far more stress on the "legs" of a barrel bushing than was ever intended by JMB. If the legs shear-off, certain things other than just the bullet go downrange fast!

Now, it is true that with modern metallurgy and perhaps a thicker-than-standard bushing "legs" design, one could argue that the bushing "legs" could today withstand the stresses of heavier chamberings. I won't argue with that view; but still, I personally don't want that much stress on the legs of a barrel bushing on one if my 1911s ... I'd rather go with a bull barrel (+compensator), and not worry further.
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Old 12-25-2017, 08:55 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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I'd just like a nice clean full size 10mm with a bull barrel I think.
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Old 12-26-2017, 06:53 AM
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I'd just like a nice clean full size 10mm with a bull barrel I think.
I agree with Chrysanthemum in his analysis and comment on the 10mm, especially if you're going to reload for it or buy some of the hotter boutique ammo offerings like Buffalo Bore or Underwood. The compensated barrel will do the best for managing muzzle rise and recovery time for follow-up shots.

Having said that, the second best option is the bull barrel option. I have a Kimber Eclipse in 10mm (in my signature line) that I have had a few upgrades to done by Wilson, and it has the standard barrel and bushing with open plug for the FLGR. IMO, if I had the upgrades to do over again, it would get a comped barrel or at least a bull barrel. I've already sunk more into this gun than is probably practical, but with consecutive serial number to my brother's it isn't going anywhere. IF I had it to do over again from scratch, I would go with bull barrel, or go with their "Hunter" in 10mm that has the comped barrel setup. JME.
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Old 12-26-2017, 07:14 AM
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I have both TSG/bushing, CQBE/bull barrel. I tend not to shoot them side by side and honestly don't feel an appreciable difference. But it's always educational to read what you gentlemen have to say. Perhaps I need to do a range day side by side comparison. Call me an old dog, but I like the bushing barrels, but obviously neither is a deal breaker.
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