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  #1  
Old 03-20-2017, 09:07 AM
sanguo sanguo is offline
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SFS Kareen

I purchased a $230 Kareen when the Slickguns special was on. When I got it in the box, well, it needed a bluing touch up and it had a terrible trigger. There was a heavy grate, and a brutal undercut in the hammer that the sear was having to literally climb out of.

The approach I took to these issues was a BHSS Spring optimization pack for the Mk 1, using the 30 pound mainspring and the 17 pound recoil spring, as I like to use inexpensive ammunition and I find this the most reliable with remanufactured rounds, especially once broken in.

The SFS install required the removal of a lot of metal on the Kareen. First, the SFS lever jams against both the tight hole on the left side of the frame through which the safety assembly ordinarily passes, as well as by the safety plunger notches.

Using a rounded file, I widened that hole, and also using a flat file removed some material. However, in the Kareen, once the SFS system was installed the SFS sear spring, which has a notch in it unlike the Kareen flat sear spring, poked into the mag well. A magazine fit so tightly that a pressure against the top with the blunt end of a screwdriver was needed to get it started for removal.

That required moving the mag well slightly forward to remove pressure. About two hours of filing later, holding the magazine catch so that it was inline and using that as the 'outer' bounds of the process, magazines now drop free.

At the range, this thing functioned perfectly, and the SFS gave it an amazing 'stock' trigger that is lighter and smoother than the commercial Hi Power Standard I recently picked up.

The FEG frames seem like they might have different dimensions that do affect installation of the SFS kit, but it is doable, and it is an enormous upgrade to a very inexpensive Hi Power. Especially since these come without the firing pin block safety, the trigger is very smooth at the end.

While the RDIH grip doesn't fit the Kareen, black Mk 3 grips fit fine. Sadly, the frame seems a bit too wide for the ambidextrous magazine catch to function properly. This seemed to be confirmed by the SFS ambidex lever needing to be sanded down in order to not jam against the side of the frame.

The last thing I did was to file a flat on the back side of the front sight, and then cut a vertical 'paint notch' in it. I also opened up the rear sight with a square file.

I would say, because of the amount of metal that needed to be removed, this is very much a one-way ticket. However? I couldn't be happier with the result. It shoots great, the sights work well for me, and the trigger is vastly superior IMHO to what it was. With the BHSS springs, it functions flawlessly too.

Note: I think this difficulty is only because of the properties of FEG and Kareen Mk 1 frames. I have 2 different SFS kits. Each has been 100% precise and dropped in without issue into two separate commercial Hi Powers (1 new, 1 old, as well as into my Arcus 94C)

I like to uninstall and try out different configurations to practice.

Total cost in this Kareen:
$230 for Kareen (add 50 for shipping and transfer fee so 280)
SFS kit $99 promo price
BHSS Mk 1 Spring Pack $26
Parts bin Mk 3 Grips: $10
Cold Blue Touchup: Incidental
$416
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_20170320_071909.jpg   IMG_20170320_071919.jpg   IMG_20170320_071943.jpg  

Last edited by sanguo; 03-20-2017 at 04:57 PM.
  #2  
Old 03-20-2017, 09:54 AM
crh crh is offline
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Quite a project to get a smooth running pistol! Obviously, you have the skill and patience to pull it off. Great deal when all said and done!
  #3  
Old 03-20-2017, 11:51 AM
sanguo sanguo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crh View Post
Quite a project to get a smooth running pistol! Obviously, you have the skill and patience to pull it off. Great deal when all said and done!
I would not say I have the skill - I'm only an amateur. But I've learned a lot here, and from others, and a Kareen, or really any sub-300 Hi Power, is a great platform to take risks on one might not otherwise.
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  #4  
Old 03-20-2017, 01:06 PM
Hun Shooter Hun Shooter is offline
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I was looking at the Kareen on Slickguns. Sounds like it was a good project. What bothers me is that you can't find untouched surplus BHPs anymore. They all have been refinished (badly) and being priced as if they were in good condition.
  #5  
Old 03-20-2017, 03:30 PM
sanguo sanguo is offline
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Originally Posted by Hun Shooter View Post
I was looking at the Kareen on Slickguns. Sounds like it was a good project. What bothers me is that you can't find untouched surplus BHPs anymore. They all have been refinished (badly) and being priced as if they were in good condition.
Gunbroker.com generally has some of the importers there that have surplus FN Hi Powers. Some are parked. Some are untouched.
  #6  
Old 03-21-2017, 12:04 AM
Burgs Burgs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanguo View Post



The SFS install required the removal of a lot of metal on the Kareen. First, the SFS lever jams against both the tight hole on the left side of the frame through which the safety assembly ordinarily passes, as well as by the safety plunger notches.

Using a rounded file, I widened that hole, and also using a flat file removed some material. However, in the Kareen, once the SFS system was installed the SFS sear spring, which has a notch in it unlike the Kareen flat sear spring, poked into the mag well. A magazine fit so tightly that a pressure against the top with the blunt end of a screwdriver was needed to get it started for removal.

YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. As you've discovered, some FEG/Kareens have slightly smaller frame holes where the safety's shaft passes through the frame. The correct way to deal with the issue is to reduce the diameter of the safety's shaft - NOT mess with the frame. If you had read more and posted less, you would've already know this.
ALWAYS make adjustments to the cheapest parts and NEVER the slide and frame, if at all possible!

Two days ago you initiated a new thread because you couldn't get the roll pin out of your ambidextrous safety lever.
Yet, once again, today here you are posting gunsmithing advice as if you actually had some sort/any sort of personal knowledge or expertise. -BAD advice that could potentially ruin somebody's FEG should they be naive enough to mistake you for somebody who knew the first thing about Hi Powers.

But you really can't stop yourself, can you? It's as if you have some sort of need to stalk this forum and interrupt its normal discourse with your personal attention seeking. Evidently, you don't care if the advice you type is totally dreadful as long as you get to type something.

All day we've evidently seen some sort of "new and improved Sanguo", where you've so far ceased the rude and nasty comments you've formerly directed (and then deleted before the Mods read them) toward the members who've attempted to (at your request) offer you sound advice. You've started the most recent posts with the qualifier that youre' an "amature", "not a gunsmith". But you're giving yourself way too much credit. I'm searching in my mind for a term that describes a person whose level of experience is 2 or 3 levels below "amature", but my vocabulary fails me.

The "New Sanguo" lack of hubris and nastiness is all well and good, but it's not enough. You have to stop your OCD obsession with constantly posting answers to each and every question that arises here.
Of ALL the forum members herein, you have consistently demonstrated that you are by experience and qualification, the least qualified and last person here to be answering questions and giving advice.

Please Stop.
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Last edited by Burgs; 03-21-2017 at 01:04 AM. Reason: Edited to make response less "ambiguous"...
  #7  
Old 03-21-2017, 04:51 AM
exfed2002 exfed2002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
Of ALL the forum members herein, you have consistently demonstrated that you are by experience and qualification, the least qualified and last person here to be answering questions and giving advice.

Please Stop.
I guess if you can overhaul a VW bug engine on your kitchen table, that qualifies you to gunsmith an HP................................................ .
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  #8  
Old 03-21-2017, 01:19 PM
sanguo sanguo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exfed2002 View Post
I guess if you can overhaul a VW bug engine on your kitchen table, that qualifies you to gunsmith an HP................................................ .
More than! What qualifies one to gunsmith a HP is the possession of a HP, a hammer, a punch set, and files.

Last edited by sanguo; 03-21-2017 at 01:36 PM.
  #9  
Old 03-21-2017, 01:22 PM
sanguo sanguo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. As you've discovered, some FEG/Kareens have slightly smaller frame holes where the safety's shaft passes through the frame. The correct way to deal with the issue is to reduce the diameter of the safety's shaft - NOT mess with the frame. If you had read more and posted less, you would've already know this.
ALWAYS make adjustments to the cheapest parts and NEVER the slide and frame, if at all possible!

Two days ago you initiated a new thread because you couldn't get the roll pin out of your ambidextrous safety lever.
Yet, once again, today here you are posting gunsmithing advice as if you actually had some sort/any sort of personal knowledge or expertise. -BAD advice that could potentially ruin somebody's FEG should they be naive enough to mistake you for somebody who knew the first thing about Hi Powers.

But you really can't stop yourself, can you? It's as if you have some sort of need to stalk this forum and interrupt its normal discourse with your personal attention seeking. Evidently, you don't care if the advice you type is totally dreadful as long as you get to type something.

All day we've evidently seen some sort of "new and improved Sanguo", where you've so far ceased the rude and nasty comments you've formerly directed (and then deleted before the Mods read them) toward the members who've attempted to (at your request) offer you sound advice. You've started the most recent posts with the qualifier that youre' an "amature", "not a gunsmith". But you're giving yourself way too much credit. I'm searching in my mind for a term that describes a person whose level of experience is 2 or 3 levels below "amature", but my vocabulary fails me.

The "New Sanguo" lack of hubris and nastiness is all well and good, but it's not enough. You have to stop your OCD obsession with constantly posting answers to each and every question that arises here.
Of ALL the forum members herein, you have consistently demonstrated that you are by experience and qualification, the least qualified and last person here to be answering questions and giving advice.

Please Stop.
Burgs, you have no place hijacking my threads like this. I simply am describing my project here that I did on my own.
I indeed got the roll pin out with the tool suggested by Bob Reed, having discovered my own punch was oversized, despite being labeled 1/16. What exactly are you complaining about? Regarding my earlier edits, nothing I posted was anywhere near the nastiness you have decided to display towards me. My edits were for clarity; I removed none of the points that I made.

There is no 'New Sanguo.' I am simply being more explicit about my stance because you have seemed unable to comprehend that I am just a new Hi Power enthusiast describing my projects and limited experience here on the forums, despite having repeatedly said so. I am not offering professional gunsmithing advice to anyone, and in my answers, describing my experiences getting inside my own Hi Powers. I am simply describing how I got my sfs system working, and well, in a Kareen. When I answer questions, I give only a beginner hobbyist's perspective, as I have consistently said since my first post here. This is an online forum. I don't think anyone takes the suggestions here as professional gunsmithing advice. And I have found that taking a consensus of multiple perspectives has been useful to me; therefore, I offer mine as well. I am happy to admit any time I am directly incorrect; as that helps me learn more quickly.

Here's a few questions for you, Burgs.

Have you ever installed SFS into a Kareen?

Did you know that the Kareen's sear spring is flat, and the sear spring from the SFS system has a clip that pushes it into the magwell slightly when installed in the Kareen?

If someone followed your advice, they will still get a magazine stuck in the mag well and have a SFS system that they ruined, because it will be loose in any other firearm. As I mentioned, this is a one way project. Further, since the Kareen was $230, and one cannot buy individual replacement parts for the SFS system, I can value the frame itself at $80 at the most. That would make the frame the cheaper part!

Mine required this level of intervention to install, but the result was pretty great. Please post a picture of your Kareen with SFS installed. Until then, everyone knows what this is. Burgs, you have been found.

Last edited by sanguo; 03-21-2017 at 02:43 PM.
  #10  
Old 03-21-2017, 02:51 PM
submoa submoa is offline
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The following was carefully composed as an attempt to educate sanguo on how things have worked here for years, which I was about to post…before his latest outburst, here it is in its entirety:

Right up front sanguo, your recent behavior and especially manner of speaking...writing, was so over the top, inappropriate, arrogant, insulting, snotty and downright clueless that I'd expected nothing less than...well justified, public execution.

On the flip side, I will also observe that your manner of speaking HAS improved...for whatever reason, since last week...a good thing if the powers that be permit you to remain. BUT...as Mr. Burgs points out you are still offering advice where you have no business offering advice...even with the occasional use of the term "amateur". Very few of us here are "professional" gunsmiths...making a living at it, BUT many here have decades of "amateur" exposure to the workings of the BHP. You said you bought your very first firearm 3 whole months before your first thread…and that was only a 4 weeks ago. There ARE members here who ARE professional gunsmiths...including Mr. Bob Reed...a BHP specialist no less. Yes the same Bob Reed you flippantly dismissed over the established, factory, and commonly understood BHP nomenclature we try to use here. Should you remain here; an honest suggestion: Read More - Post Less.

In a final effort to make you understand, I would explain...most importantly: This sub-forum has a universal reputation as THE internet source for ACCURATE, DETAILED...and more importantly SAFE, information regarding the BHP. That reputation didn't just miraculously happen, it was earned. Much of that reputation is the direct result of a long standing cooperative effort by established members here, such as Mr. Burgs and others…likely the "pecking order" you insultingly spoke of earlier. People come here from other sites specifically to get accurate information. Respect here is earned; it is not seized by an individual...you have earned enmity. THIS is a major component of the pushback you'd received. Members here have a legitimate stake in this sub-forum remaining accurate, detailed and safe, you...through some of your "advice" and in-your-face manner, damaged that hard earned reputation. Again, a legitimate suggestion: Read More – Post Less.

END…..

I wish I’d posted the above before sanguo’s latest outburst, though I doubt it would have done any good. I imagine he’s already whined to the Mods again and I urge the Mods to finally seriously review and compare the long standing sterling reputation of members like Mr. Burgs…who is widely respected for the accurate, detailed and safe help he constantly provides to members here…as well as other well established members here who are just plain fed up with the arrogant, self serving and downright moronic trash posted sanguo…..
  #11  
Old 03-21-2017, 02:58 PM
sanguo sanguo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by submoa View Post
The following was carefully composed as an attempt to educate sanguo on how things have worked here for years, which I was about to post…before his latest outburst, here it is in its entirety:

Right up front sanguo, your recent behavior and especially manner of speaking...writing, was so over the top, inappropriate, arrogant, insulting, snotty and downright clueless that I'd expected nothing less than...well justified, public execution.

On the flip side, I will also observe that your manner of speaking HAS improved...for whatever reason, since last week...a good thing if the powers that be permit you to remain. BUT...as Mr. Burgs points out you are still offering advice where you have no business offering advice...even with the occasional use of the term "amateur". Very few of us here are "professional" gunsmiths...making a living at it, BUT many here have decades of "amateur" exposure to the workings of the BHP. You said you bought your very first firearm 3 whole months before your first thread…and that was only a 4 weeks ago. There ARE members here who ARE professional gunsmiths...including Mr. Bob Reed...a BHP specialist no less. Yes the same Bob Reed you flippantly dismissed over the established, factory, and commonly understood BHP nomenclature we try to use here. Should you remain here; an honest suggestion: Read More - Post Less.

In a final effort to make you understand, I would explain...most importantly: This sub-forum has a universal reputation as THE internet source for ACCURATE, DETAILED...and more importantly SAFE, information regarding the BHP. That reputation didn't just miraculously happen, it was earned. Much of that reputation is the direct result of a long standing cooperative effort by established members here, such as Mr. Burgs and others…likely the "pecking order" you insultingly spoke of earlier. People come here from other sites specifically to get accurate information. Respect here is earned; it is not seized by an individual...you have earned enmity. THIS is a major component of the pushback you'd received. Members here have a legitimate stake in this sub-forum remaining accurate, detailed and safe, you...through some of your "advice" and in-your-face manner, damaged that hard earned reputation. Again, a legitimate suggestion: Read More – Post Less.

END…..

I wish I’d posted the above before sanguo’s latest outburst, though I doubt it would have done any good. I imagine he’s already whined to the Mods again and I urge the Mods to finally seriously review and compare the long standing sterling reputation of members like Mr. Burgs…who is widely respected for the accurate, detailed and safe help he constantly provides to members here…as well as other well established members here who are just plain fed up with the arrogant, self serving and downright moronic trash posted sanguo…..
In what way was my response an outburst?
This is genuinely confusing.

It just seems like you're embarrassing yourself too.

Do you have a picture of a Kareen you've installed SFS into?
  #12  
Old 03-21-2017, 04:44 PM
Sistema1927 Sistema1927 is offline
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The only thing bad about sanguo's one month time off is that he also caused Burgs to sit in the penalty box as well. Shame.
  #13  
Old 03-21-2017, 05:11 PM
ToddSig ToddSig is offline
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Originally Posted by Sistema1927 View Post
The only thing bad about sanguo's one month time off is that he also caused Burgs to sit in the penalty box as well. Shame.
Agreed. I think it is rather unfair to ban a long term respected member, who was attempting to protect best practices, promote & ensure quality and accurate content and perhaps most importantly, the integrity of the board against questionable postings from a new member.

What is perhaps worse than the ban, is treating this long term, respected member, who is perhaps the "glue" of this board, the same as a new member (one month), with his hyper postings, passive aggressive attitude (claiming I am an amateur, I am here to learn, while giving gunsmithing advice) and numerous posts of questionable content. The two should not be treated the same.
  #14  
Old 03-21-2017, 09:53 PM
Warthogge Warthogge is offline
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IMHO the moderator(s) should have called Sanguo out, not Burgs. After reading a couple of his posts it became obvious to me that it would be a best practice to ignore them and any of his future posts. He is downright annoying. I would have put him on my ignore list, but like a car wreck, I just couldn't turn my eyes away.

True experts on this forum, with assertive natures, will call out people like this and call them what they are - thereby violating rule #1 of this forum. Hopefully, Sanguo will move on and we will get Burgs back, unlike Chuntaro who also had a dust up and was permanently banned. I miss Chuntaro's input and hope we don't similarly lose Burg's.
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  #15  
Old 03-21-2017, 10:17 PM
Tom Horn Tom Horn is offline
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Just a heads up to the members:
Thanks to lazy moderating, Burgs will not be back, ever, and not that it makes any difference, nor will I.

Noklue, the "retired moderator" has lived up to his self given nickname. All along this High Power Forum should have had it's own moderator with a vested interest, and not somebody who shows up all bent out of shape whenever he gets bothered by the HP side. Noklue, if coming over to our side pisses you off so much, why don't you STAY retired? Obviously you never took the time to actually read Sanguo's posts,
that would've been doing your job.

Not that Noklue, the "retired administrator" cares one little bit, but we here care just as much about the High Power section as the 1911 fans cherish theirs. Sanguo's actions would not have been tolerated for 2 minutes on the 1911 side, but due to incompetent moderating we've been forced to tolerate Sanguo for weeks and because of this, YOU, the members, will be hearing much more from Sanguo in the future.

Burgs asked me to thank all you guys who have made this hobby enjoyable. He wishes you all the best.

Meanwhile, y'all enjoy the new and improved Sangou Forum. Maybe he can take Noklue's job.


Banned in 5....4.....3.....2....1....

Last edited by Tom Horn; 03-21-2017 at 10:42 PM.
  #16  
Old 03-22-2017, 05:46 AM
exfed2002 exfed2002 is offline
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Just a heads up to the members:
Thanks to lazy moderating, Burgs will not be back, ever, and not that it makes any difference, nor will I.
I think this forum has just pulled a Nathan........................
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Old 03-22-2017, 06:32 AM
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Noklue3 Noklue3 is offline
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TOM HORN:

Insulting me isn't going to help anything. I was already in the process of reviewing Burgs ban.

Edited to add: I'll give you a free ride on this due to the situation. Do not try me again or expect another free ride. If you have a problem with me or any of the staff, I suggest you PM them or me.
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Last edited by Noklue3; 03-22-2017 at 03:01 PM.
  #18  
Old 03-22-2017, 07:04 AM
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Noklue3 Noklue3 is offline
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After review, it looks like I should have taken more time to review ALL the thread. It happens.

I lifted the ban on Burgs and made sanguo's ban permanent
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  #19  
Old 03-22-2017, 07:18 AM
Charles68 Charles68 is offline
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Originally Posted by Noklue3 View Post
After review, it looks like I should have taken more time to review ALL the thread. It happens.

I lifted the ban on Burgs and made sanguo's ban permanent
Thank you very much!
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:31 AM
ToddSig ToddSig is offline
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Originally Posted by Noklue3 View Post
After review, it looks like I should have taken more time to review ALL the thread. It happens.

I lifted the ban on Burgs and made sanguo's ban permanent
Its the right thing to do.
  #21  
Old 03-22-2017, 08:18 AM
Plain Old Dave Plain Old Dave is offline
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Having been permabanned from several forums for little more than having an opinion (which is what looks like happened here), I'll just say that Internet discussion forums are NOT venues for free speech. Free speech, for a discussion forum, is what the Admins say it is.

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  #22  
Old 03-22-2017, 11:05 AM
crasig crasig is offline
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Originally Posted by Plain Old Dave View Post
Having been permabanned from several forums for little more than having an opinion (which is what looks like happened here), I'll just say that Internet discussion forums are NOT venues for free speech. Free speech, for a discussion forum, is what the Admins say it is.
+1 . I shut-up about my project Feg because of abuse & name calling. It did not dampen my enthusiasm, but it was upsetting, at 70, fighting cancer, I just don't need the grief. Having worked as an educator, I know that helpful encouragement works better than smack down. I think anyone who can't be civil is wrong. There should be rules against rudeness & name calling here, IMO.
  #23  
Old 03-22-2017, 11:56 AM
Jäger Jäger is offline
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Originally Posted by Noklue3 View Post
After review, it looks like I should have taken more time to review ALL the thread. It happens.

I lifted the ban on Burgs and made sanguo's ban permanent
Thank you very much sir.

On both counts.

And a tip of the hat to be big enough to both take a second look and then correct and state that you made an error. A lot of people wouldn't have done that.

Respect.
  #24  
Old 03-22-2017, 03:17 PM
GT40DOC GT40DOC is offline
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Thank you very much sir.

On both counts.

And a tip of the hat to be big enough to both take a second look and then correct and state that you made an error. A lot of people wouldn't have done that.

Respect.

My feelings exactly......welcome back Mr. Burgs!!!
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Old 03-22-2017, 06:18 PM
Charles68 Charles68 is offline
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My feelings exactly......welcome back Mr. Burgs!!!
We hope, but I got a bad feeling he wont be back or it will be a while.
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