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  #1  
Old 02-26-2020, 06:29 PM
Aklon Aklon is offline
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Another Front in the War on the Second

Welcome to California, where they first outlawed lead bullets in certain hunting areas "to protect the condor." Then, they said you had to use lead free bullets no matter where in California you went hunting.

Now enters bill AB 3071, which mandates that only bullets that have been certified by the state as lead free are allowed, anywhere. Bullets with any amount of lead are prohibited and may not be used for hunting - or at an outdoor or indoor rifle and /or pistol range.

In effect, California is saying none of our existing stocks of ammunition may be used in this state. Worse, it looks like it may apply to the ingredients of primers as well.

Way back when Nixon created the EPA, some people said it could be a threat to property rights. That has already come to pass, and now the environment is being used to attack the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

Go ahead and laugh, but remember this and remember it well: what they do to us in California will soon be done to you. Ask the good people of Virginia.
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Old 02-26-2020, 06:41 PM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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Anyone who laughs at your situation is an idiot.

Your point is well taken, what happens in any Lefty state can spread.

Just curious, is this for just new sales and is their any grandfathering of existing ammo in hand? Any grace period after the bill is past? Usually they stipulate this crap in the draft bill.

If you can post a link to the bill that would be good too, I'm sure I will not be the only one who wants to read it.
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  #3  
Old 02-26-2020, 07:16 PM
gumbee gumbee is offline
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AB 3071 Mullin.
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  #4  
Old 02-26-2020, 10:27 PM
Phreddie30.06 Phreddie30.06 is offline
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Now is the time for all gun owners who are active in our sport to leave California so it can finish breaking off and becoming an island country by itself
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  #5  
Old 02-26-2020, 10:37 PM
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It is a de facto ban on ammunition period as many firearms do not have substitutes available, such as muzzleloaders. Also I believe CCI is the only one offering a lead-free .22LR round, and it fires a tiny copper/polymer pill that has no power or accuracy beyond 50 yards. A lot of weekend plinkers who say they agree with "reasonable gun laws" are going to be shocked when they realize that they can no longer buy rimfire ammo.
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  #6  
Old 02-27-2020, 12:19 AM
cavelamb cavelamb is offline
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Unintended consequences of good intentions.
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  #7  
Old 02-27-2020, 01:21 AM
megafiddle megafiddle is offline
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It's never just about the environment. If it was, the lead ban would not apply to indoor ranges.

The only endangered species there will be the shooters if the ban goes into effect.

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  #8  
Old 02-27-2020, 09:03 AM
L.E. L.E. is offline
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Unintended consequences of good intentions.
Don't kid yourself. Some people once had some good intentions here once, but a far bigger group has taken the ball and run with it. There's nothing unintended about it.
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  #9  
Old 02-27-2020, 10:27 AM
cavelamb cavelamb is offline
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Don't kid yourself. Some people once had some good intentions here once, but a far bigger group has taken the ball and run with it. There's nothing unintended about it.

I was thinking about those who were duped into trying to do something "good" (in their own virtuous signaling way).

But you are right about the far bigger group being the far bigger problem.
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  #10  
Old 02-27-2020, 11:02 AM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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Well they are finally realizing that they can’t ban guns outright. But if they legislate ammo out of existence for the majority it’ll turn those people’s guns into paperweights.
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  #11  
Old 02-27-2020, 02:05 PM
Aklon Aklon is offline
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Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
Anyone who laughs at your situation is an idiot.

Your point is well taken, what happens in any Lefty state can spread.

Just curious, is this for just new sales and is their any grandfathering of existing ammo in hand? Any grace period after the bill is past? Usually they stipulate this crap in the draft bill.

If you can post a link to the bill that would be good too, I'm sure I will not be the only one who wants to read it.
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...01920200AB3071

This is the bill as it stands now. It's been printed so it's on the calendar. Please bear in mind that it will be subject to endless permutations as amendments are offered to keep it moving, so the final bill may not be anything like this.

Not only that, but thanks to a legislative tactic called "gut and amend," any bill on the floor can be changed to do something completely different than it's title infers. For example, "A Bill to Fight Inland Water Pollution" overnight becomes a bill that restricts firearms ownership - but it still keeps the original bill's heading. That way, the low information legislator see the heading and votes in favor without really knowing what it does.
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  #12  
Old 02-27-2020, 02:08 PM
Aklon Aklon is offline
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Originally Posted by Phreddie30.06 View Post
Now is the time for all gun owners who are active in our sport to leave California so it can finish breaking off and becoming an island country by itself
I am so so sick and tired of being told to run away, run away, run away.

No, damn it, NO! This is my home and I will do all I can to take it back and if you want to run away from the fight that's your damn business - just don't tell me to chicken out too.
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  #13  
Old 02-27-2020, 02:15 PM
havanajim havanajim is offline
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Originally Posted by Aklon View Post
I am so so sick and tired of being told to run away, run away, run away.

No, damn it, NO! This is my home and I will do all I can to take it back and if you want to run away from the fight that's your damn business - just don't tell me to chicken out too.
I wish you luck, and I sincerely hope you persevere!!! However, I was rooting for the guys at Thermopylae and at the Alamo as well. You're facing greater odds than those guys were. In the bigger scheme, though, so are the rest of us!
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  #14  
Old 02-27-2020, 04:54 PM
Vos Parate Vos Parate is online now
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Originally Posted by cavelamb View Post
Unintended consequences of good intentions.
What good intentions? 🤔
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  #15  
Old 02-27-2020, 04:56 PM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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Telling people who live in lefty states to leave is so parochial. No-XXXX. Do people (really) think they are telling us something we haven't heard 10,000X before.

"Oh yea, why didn't I think of that, I didn't know I could leave...silly-me".

There are many reasons to stay, and many reasons to leave, and they are not the same for everyone, a very individual decision which goes well beyond bump-stocks ban's :-).
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Last edited by combat auto; 02-27-2020 at 05:09 PM.
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  #16  
Old 02-27-2020, 06:32 PM
scubadad scubadad is online now
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Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
Telling people who live in lefty states to leave is so parochial. No-XXXX. Do people (really) think they are telling us something we haven't heard 10,000X before.

"Oh yea, why didn't I think of that, I didn't know I could leave...silly-me".

There are many reasons to stay, and many reasons to leave, and they are not the same for everyone, a very individual decision which goes well beyond bump-stocks ban's :-).
I agree. It is like saying we all should move to the moon because global warming will kill us all.
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  #17  
Old 02-27-2020, 09:52 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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Agreed that running away is a fools errand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aklon View Post
I am so so sick and tired of being told to run away, run away, run away.

No, damn it, NO! This is my home and I will do all I can to take it back and if you want to run away from the fight that's your damn business - just don't tell me to chicken out too.
We thought that we were safe here in VA. Recent events have demonstrated clearly that this is not the case. My wife and I are going to hold fast and fight. There may actually be some good news coming down the pike for you people in the golden state. With the new appointments to the ninth circuit court of appeals. You may actually see some things go your way for a change.

I think that there was a recent ruling on magazines that went the right way out there. Of course all of the lemon head newsbots are all saying that the judicial appointments being made by the current administration are in fact "gaming the system." Stay strong you are not alone.
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  #18  
Old 02-27-2020, 10:07 PM
Valor45 Valor45 is offline
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Originally Posted by 7.62Kolectr View Post
Well they are finally realizing that they can’t ban guns outright. But if they legislate ammo out of existence for the majority it’ll turn those people’s guns into paperweights.
Very true. That's exactly what their hoping to accomplish.
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  #19  
Old 02-27-2020, 10:31 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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It's important that CA fight this, or at least have it overturned in court if passed, because if they can get away with it then a whole slew of other blue or purple states will follow suit. It would be one thing if an acceptable substitute for lead existed, but it doesn't. I don't like handling lead bullets or breathing in lead dust at the range any more than anybody else does, but there is simply no other metal nearly as heavy and soft except gold (which we can't use for bullets anyway for obvious reasons). Copper is expensive, especially with worldwide demand exceeding the supply, and it is too light which means the effective range of any copper bullet is very short. And we can't use steel-core bullets either, especially in handguns as it's already illegal.

So yes, a ban on lead bullets being used anywhere is a de facto ban on bullets period.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #20  
Old 02-27-2020, 10:36 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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You made some valid points Dana.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
It's important that CA fight this, or at least have it overturned in court if passed, because if they can get away with it then a whole slew of other blue or purple states will follow suit. It would be one thing if an acceptable substitute for lead existed, but it doesn't. I don't like handling lead bullets or breathing in lead dust at the range any more than anybody else does, but there is simply no other metal nearly as heavy and soft except gold (which we can't use for bullets anyway for obvious reasons). Copper is expensive, especially with worldwide demand exceeding the supply, and it is too light which means the effective range of any copper bullet is very short. And we can't use steel-core bullets either, especially in handguns as it's already illegal.

So yes, a ban on lead bullets being used anywhere is a de facto ban on bullets period.
But as a long time shooter of copper bullets. You are incorrect in your statement concerning effective range of copper projectiles. I would suggest that you speak with the people over at Barnes bullets in this regard.
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  #21  
Old 02-28-2020, 07:25 AM
Lug Nuts Lug Nuts is offline
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I live in a state that LOVES to copy California, so this is likely coming my way in the next 5-10. You know what I’m doing? Buying more lead. Just like I keep buying standard capacity magazines. I will never forget the look on a Dim dads face when he went hiking past a BLM shooting range and asked as I was shooting my 10/22 “is that one of those illegal 30 round clips?” To which I responded, “no, it’s a 50.” He could not believe that they did not just magically go “poof” with his beloved politician’s decrees. He scurried away and I went on with my business. I will do the same with lead. You should too.

Some news channel did an attempted expose on my state’s “non-compliance” and the Dims were beside themselves that their decrees were being ignored. These creatures will not win unless you let them. Their biggest weapon is your conscience in regards to written laws and the expectation you will oblige because that is what good citizens do...

#iwillnotcomply #neithershouldyou
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Old 02-28-2020, 03:04 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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This is more or less correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lug Nuts View Post
Some news channel did an attempted expose on my state’s “non-compliance” and the Dims were beside themselves that their decrees were being ignored. These creatures will not win unless you let them. Their biggest weapon is your conscience in regards to written laws and the expectation you will oblige because that is what good citizens do...

#iwillnotcomply #neithershouldyou
Their whole plan is based on willful compliance. And they do not have a plan B.
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  #23  
Old 02-28-2020, 03:10 PM
Aklon Aklon is offline
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We are just starting to cross network with the ranges, NRA, and the firearms activist community out here. This time the threat is real and I think - I hope - that enough people can forget past differences to coalesce and kill this bill before it gets out of the Assembly.

"The gunnies" as the politicians call us, are an independent, opinionated bunch, sometimes with mouths louder than our guns and brains smaller than .17. My fear is the purists - "NRA sold us out in 1936 and I will never ever support them!" - blowing smoke and confusion, but OTOH this threat may bring them to their senses.
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  #24  
Old 02-28-2020, 09:46 PM
Phreddie30.06 Phreddie30.06 is offline
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Originally Posted by Aklon View Post
I am so so sick and tired of being told to run away, run away, run away.



No, damn it, NO! This is my home and I will do all I can to take it back and if you want to run away from the fight that's your damn business - just don't tell me to chicken out too.
I was joking. I am firmly planted in Colorado where we have our own battles to fight. If anyone thinks I'm gonna run from this fight they have another thing coming. Good luck with your battles. And remember that without your vote and your help we are all doomed.
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  #25  
Old 02-28-2020, 11:08 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is online now
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Originally Posted by Aklon View Post
...
Now enters bill AB 3071, which mandates that only bullets that have been certified by the state as lead free are allowed, anywhere...
Interesting... which means if they don't approve any new rosters of lead-free bullets you can't buy or shoot them. I guess even if you buy 100% copper bullets, you still can't use them because they have to be first approved by the state.

Knowing how slow bureaucratic state agencies can be, it sounds like a ploy just to make it impossible to buy new ammo, by making the 100% lead free certification process impossible to get existing 100% copper bullets approved or new alloys approved.
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