New member, 2 FEG Hi Powers - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-14-2017, 09:23 AM
Hun Shooter Hun Shooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Hillsboro, OR
Posts: 69
New member, 2 FEG Hi Powers

New member here, I recently purchased 2 FEG Hi Powers after regretting having sold the one I've owned for over 10 years

Both of these new to me FEG's have issues. Some I've already resolved, some still need to be addressed.

The one (CAI Import P9M) has the oldschool Browning slide stop, I bought knowing that it would not pass the safety test. I was able to correct that by replacing the worn sear I ordered from Midway.

The other one (Kassnar Import PJK-9HP) was sold to me as in good condition mechanically and cosmetically. The finish is thin and the slide to frame fit is lose, barrel not matching. When you pull the trigger with the hammer cocked you see the slide lift. It basically needs the frame rails peened and the slide rails squeezed together by a qualified gunsmith. It's beyond the scope of my tools and capabilities.

Once making sure all issues have been corrected my plans are to customize both. Get Novak cut sights installed and do a full cerekote refinish, grips.


PS I am a native Hungarian speaker, if you need something translated
Attached Thumbnails
DSC_3254.jpg   DSC_3255.jpg   DSC_3235.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-14-2017, 05:55 PM
jaypee jaypee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 831
Hey, Welcome to the Hi Power Forum, Hun Shooter. It looks like you have a good handle on what you want and need to do to your pistols. A few observations if you don't mind.

First, your PJK-9HP, since it has the Kassnar logo on it, is one of the original imports from 1986 - 87, making it one of the few FEG Hi Power pistols that can be reasonably dated.

The P9M is shown as a CAI import and has a serial number of B32XXX. I have two of these pistols with serial numbers of B23XXX and B52XXX and they are both KBI PJK 9HP's!!

If you'd like to find factory FEG parts for your guns, you can find them here: https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufac...gary-35070.htm

We have a group of dedicated Hi Power guys around here who are always glad to help out with a problem. So be at home and we look forward to learning from you.

JayPee
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-15-2017, 03:07 AM
pjk9hp pjk9hp is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 119
just wondering why CAI still would have laser(?) marked the right side of the slide with another "MADE IN HUNGARY FEG HUNGARY MDL P9M 9MM" wherein the left side of the slide already has the original roll mark "Cal. 9mm. PARABELLUM MADE IN HUNGARY FEG-BUDAPEST"... and isn't the model at the right is P9 and not P9M (like the one in the left in the photo)?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 03-15-2017, 06:46 AM
Hun Shooter Hun Shooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Hillsboro, OR
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjk9hp View Post
just wondering why CAI still would have laser(?) marked the right side of the slide with another "MADE IN HUNGARY FEG HUNGARY MDL P9M 9MM" wherein the left side of the slide already has the original roll mark "Cal. 9mm. PARABELLUM MADE IN HUNGARY FEG-BUDAPEST"... and isn't the model at the right is P9 and not P9M (like the one in the left in the photo)?
I agree, all they needed to include is: Imported by CAI Georgia, UT. Instead they ruined the slide with all that unnecessary text engraved crooked. It's coming off anyways.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-15-2017, 07:20 AM
Hun Shooter Hun Shooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Hillsboro, OR
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypee View Post
Hey, Welcome to the Hi Power Forum, Hun Shooter. It looks like you have a good handle on what you want and need to do to your pistols. A few observations if you don't mind.

First, your PJK-9HP, since it has the Kassnar logo on it, is one of the original imports from 1986 - 87, making it one of the few FEG Hi Power pistols that can be reasonably dated.

The P9M is shown as a CAI import and has a serial number of B32XXX. I have two of these pistols with serial numbers of B23XXX and B52XXX and they are both KBI PJK 9HP's!!

If you'd like to find factory FEG parts for your guns, you can find them here: https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufac...gary-35070.htm

We have a group of dedicated Hi Power guys around here who are always glad to help out with a problem. So be at home and we look forward to learning from you.

JayPee
Thank you. I've been a lurker on this forum for a while, lots of great information here by knowledgeable members who treat each other respectfully.

I could tell that the Kassnar had way more rounds through it compared to the CAI. The barrel, springs and the sear have been replaced at one point as well as the slide being lose. My guess is that the original owner sold this gun for being inaccurate due to the lose fitting slide. You can tell it was a carry gun at some point due to the holster wear and the pitting on the slide due to having been exposed to moisture for prolonged periods. The gun came from Texas. The finish on the frame is 99%, slide 80%

The CAI gun was most likely used by the police overseas. It is matching numbers with a worn sear and holster wear. The slide to frame fit was solid, the barrel had good rifling. The finish on the frame is 85%, slide 80%.

The weird thing is that I cannot remove and replace the trigger return spring on either one. The pin is not coming out.

Just for giggles I swapped slides. and interestingly enough the CAI frame with the Kassnar slide was not much worse than with the original slide.

The CAI slide fit the Kassnar frame turned out as if it were a high quality brand new 1911. Smooth yet snug, absolutely zero wiggle.

Here is my dilemma, would it worth investing $100-150 additional into gunsmithing to refit the original slides on $250-300 guns to keep them matching. Or during the customization process just remove the serial number from the slide along with the import marking. I don't think these guns have a collector value in their current condition and if properly customized, numbers or no numbers it should not effect the value but attract a different kind of audience focused more on quality, function and reliability vs originality.

This webpage inspired me a lot:

http://www.guntechtips.com/feg/feg.htm

Once completed I have no plans to sell them, most likely I will invest more into them than what I could get out.

Last edited by Hun Shooter; 03-15-2017 at 08:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-15-2017, 07:56 AM
OldBuzzard OldBuzzard is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Ball Ground, Geogia
Posts: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hun Shooter View Post
I agree, all they needed to include is: Imported by CAI Georgia, UT. Instead they ruined the slide with all that unnecessary text engraved crooked. It's coming off anyways.
Just an FYI... CAI is located in Georgia Vermont ( VT )
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-15-2017, 08:12 AM
Hun Shooter Hun Shooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Hillsboro, OR
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldBuzzard View Post
Just an FYI... CAI is located in Georgia Vermont ( VT )
Thanks. The "V" looked a lot like a "U" :-)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-15-2017, 09:54 AM
jaypee jaypee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hun Shooter View Post
..............................Here is my dilemma, would it worth investing $100-150 additional into gunsmithing to refit the original slides on $250-300 guns to keep them matching. Or during the customization process just remove the serial number from the slide along with the import marking. I don't think these guns have a collector value in their current condition and if properly customized, numbers or no numbers it should not effect the value but attract a different kind of audience focused more on quality, function and reliability vs originality.....................
Sir, removing a serial number from a gun is a Federal felony as well as a state felony in many states. The Federal statute goes like this:

....................§ 478.34 Removed, obliterated, or altered serial number.
No person shall knowingly transport, ship, or receive in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered, or possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
[T.D. ATF-313, 56 FR 32508, July 17, 1991]

At this point some will say that it's ok to remove this number because the number also appears on the frame, and the frame is the gun according to the BATFE. My response to that is - according to my 28 years in LE - removing ANY serial number from a gun can be a short cut to major problems with law enforcement that can cost you a bloody fortune to get out of. i.e. having a gun with an obliterated serial number anywhere on the gun can be considered a prima facie violation, depending on who the agency or prosecutor is and what their enforcement policies are, and getting the matter resolved in your favor could cost a fortune in attorney fees. So my advice is not to run the risk - leave the serial number alone.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-15-2017, 10:42 AM
jaypee jaypee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 831
On a later note, I found some references to a BATFE letter about removing import markings in which the BATFE informed the correspondent that some state statutes make that a crime as well.

So here again, HS, I'd do some careful research before even removing the import stamp, and I'd look for statutes, not opinions.

JayPee
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-15-2017, 11:47 AM
Hun Shooter Hun Shooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Hillsboro, OR
Posts: 69
I have no intentions of removing the serial number of the frame, or anything else that would make my firearm illegal. Best of my knowledge as a private citizen, not a dealer, the slide, barrel and any other parts of a firearm are not required to have any sort of idintification markings or numbers. If you believe otherwise, please let me know as we are all here to lookout for each other.

So, according to the law I am not allowed to change the slide?

Last edited by Hun Shooter; 03-15-2017 at 11:50 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-15-2017, 12:21 PM
Burgs Burgs is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 9,139
The pertinent US Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) regarding this issue is 27CFR 478.34 and 27CFR 478.92(a)(1).

Long story short, You MAY remove the serial number from the slide and barrel. Serial numbers on the slide and barrel, under US law are optional. You MAY remove them.

Once the pistol has been imported, and since you have it in your possession it has already been imported, you MAY also remove the importer's name and address. The importer's name & address must be on the weapon only to qualify for importation - ie. get through customs.

You MAY NOT remove or alter the importer's serial number from the FRAME/RECEIVER. Under US law the FRAME is the firearm. All the rest (barrel, slide, everything) are merely assorted machine parts and can be legally shipped via the US Mail, whereas in most instances a firearm (the frame/receiver) may not be shipped via the US Mails.

In most instances the "importer's serial number" is the manufacturer's serial number. However, having a serial number on a firearm prior to importation into the United States was not required until the Gun Control Act of 1968.
Before to this, many firearms were routinely made without serial numbers. If imported prior to GCA '68 those serial-less firearms are still legal.

So, modern day, for such a firearm sans serial number to be legally imported, the importer would merely need to assign it a number that is unique to that importer - hence the language "importer's serial number".

I hope that clarifies the situation.
__________________
Cordially, ~Burgs


"I've been up early my whole life, and all that ever did was increase the amount of time during the day something could go wrong." ~ Inspector O

Last edited by Burgs; 03-15-2017 at 02:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-15-2017, 12:44 PM
Hun Shooter Hun Shooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Hillsboro, OR
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
You MAY remove the serial number from the slide and barrel. Serial numbers on the slide and barrel, under US law are optional.

Once the pistol has been imported, and since you have it in your possession it has already been imported, you MAY remove the importer's name. The Name must be on the weapon only to qualify for importation.

You MAY NOT remove or alter the serial number from the FRAME/RECEIVER. Under US law the FRAME is the firearm. All the rest (barrel, slide, everything) are merely assorted machine parts and can be legally shipped via the US Mail, whereas in most instances a firearm (the frame/receiver) may not be shipped via the US Mails.
That's exactly what I was thinking. I never had any intentions of removing any kind of markings of the frame (receiver). In fact I was going to keep the text: Cal .9mm.PARABELLUM Made in Hungary FEG-BUDAPEST Marking on the slide as well. My issue was with the serial number of the slide and the 4 line CAI import stamp that was engraved on the slide crooked. We are talking about the gun on right on the photo, removing every marking on that side of the slide.
Attached Thumbnails
DSC_3255.jpg  

Last edited by Hun Shooter; 03-15-2017 at 12:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-15-2017, 02:09 PM
Burgs Burgs is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 9,139
HS,

Legally, you can take every single marking off the slide if you want and make it entirely naked.

The serial number requirements for firearms, and what constitutes regulated parts of a firearm, vary from country to country; which may account for some of the multiple serial number locations. For instance, reportedly, in Germany the barrel is a regulated part.
In some countries, just about every firearms part is regulated.

On the other hand, some manufacturers, especially in the days of yore, put all or part of the serial number on just about every part. This was usually so that armorers could keep the fitted parts on the same firearm. Some Hi Powers had partial serial numbers on the mags, because each HP came with 2 fitted mags which may or may not work in another Hi Power.

Good luck with your project. Stuff like that is always fun.
__________________
Cordially, ~Burgs


"I've been up early my whole life, and all that ever did was increase the amount of time during the day something could go wrong." ~ Inspector O
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-15-2017, 02:15 PM
jaypee jaypee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 831
Here is what I am talking about. Here is a letter from the BATFE in 2015 in which the correspondent asked about removing serial numbers and manufacturer's markings from an automatic pistol. I'm going to quote the paragraph referring to these markings and you can read the rest of the letter here: http://imgur.com/S1DnrcS

In the first paragraph the BATFE discusses removing serial numbers. In the second paragraph they say:

"............The removal of the manufacturers information from the slide of referenced firearm, while not recommended, is not currently prohibited by Federal firearms laws enforced by ATF. We do caution that some State laws and local ordinances may prohibit the alteration or removal of firearm markings and we strongly recommend that you confirm that your proposed action will not be a violation of law where the firearm will be possessed..............."

This is why I urged caution in my initial post on the subject. States like California and others have firearms statutes that surpass Federal requirements, and the State and local ordinances in your area should be examined before removing any markings or numbers.

Best wishes,

JayPee

Last edited by jaypee; 03-15-2017 at 02:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-15-2017, 03:17 PM
Burgs Burgs is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 9,139
Firearms laws do vary widely from state for state.

In the People's Democratic Paradise of New Jersey, a Red Rider BB Gun is a firearm, with all the attendant permits and restrictions that go with that.
__________________
Cordially, ~Burgs


"I've been up early my whole life, and all that ever did was increase the amount of time during the day something could go wrong." ~ Inspector O
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-15-2017, 04:30 PM
1saxman 1saxman is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,063
JP; it is not a federal violation to remove extra serial numbers from any part except the part that represents the gun - in this case, the frame. It is not a violation to remove the importer's info after you own the gun. I don't see how it can be any state violation either but of course those things don't have to make sense.
Having said that if the numbers match taking them off would be the last thing I'd do. For an FEG with non-matching barrel or slide, sure, why not go ahead and clean it up during a refinish.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-15-2017, 04:53 PM
jaypee jaypee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 831
OK, so it's not a Federal violation - getting hung up on a State gun violation can make you just as miserable. All I'm saying is know ALL the laws before you start removing numbers and letters from guns. The Feds aren't the only ones who regulate such things.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-16-2017, 12:45 PM
Tom Horn Tom Horn is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 269
No, what you actually said was this:


Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypee View Post

At this point some will say that it's ok to remove this number because the number also appears on the frame, and the frame is the gun according to the BATFE. My response to that is - according to my 28 years in LE - removing ANY serial number from a gun can be a short cut to major problems with law enforcement that can cost you a bloody fortune to get out of. i.e. having a gun with an obliterated serial number anywhere on the gun can be considered a prima facie violation, depending on who the agency or prosecutor is and what their enforcement policies are, and getting the matter resolved in your favor could cost a fortune in attorney fees. So my advice is not to run the risk - leave the serial number alone.
It was incorrect. 5 minutes worth of research would have snagged you the correct answer.

Last edited by Tom Horn; 03-16-2017 at 12:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-16-2017, 12:46 PM
Tom Horn Tom Horn is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 269
**
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-17-2017, 09:13 AM
crasig crasig is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: North Georgia Mountains
Posts: 2,140
It has been my experience that slides & barrels that have been replaced ARE frequently renumbered to match the frame. This is more of a problem to collectors than LE. If an old pistols parts are numbered to match the frame & well done, I doubt it would get a second look. It is the frame/receiver that IS the gun. Don't touch that serial.

As far as spending money on an inexpensive pistol. You aren't spending money to make money, because it may take years before actual value increases to what you have spent.
IMO, FEGS are worthy pistols. I am working on one that I will be into for more than its resale value - but it is mine, & will be as I want it, & still cheaper than an FN Browning.
I had considered saving up for a new stainless Tisas - but who knows if or when they will be imported, what they will cost - or how good they are. For me it made more sense to go for the available Feg project I bought. I had even considered an Arcus, but prefer the classic lines of the Fegs. Just my opinion for what ever its worth.

Last edited by crasig; 03-17-2017 at 09:16 AM. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-18-2017, 03:40 PM
Hun Shooter Hun Shooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Hillsboro, OR
Posts: 69
For $150 I scored a conversion kit from .40 cal FEG High Power to 9mm. It included all brand new complete slide with the updated 3 dot sights, barrel, recoil spring, guide rod and 2 high capacity magazines. The barrel is different, it looks more like the S&W lockup. However the slide and the magazines fit and work without a problem.

Last edited by Hun Shooter; 03-19-2017 at 11:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-18-2017, 04:17 PM
Burgs Burgs is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 9,139
That's a very handsome pistol. I notice that your FEG 40 has a flared front on the grip frame. Mine does not.
FEG is a conundrum.
Attached Thumbnails
RAASCO WALNUT L.JPG  
__________________
Cordially, ~Burgs


"I've been up early my whole life, and all that ever did was increase the amount of time during the day something could go wrong." ~ Inspector O
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-18-2017, 08:02 PM
Jäger Jäger is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SE BC/NW Montana
Posts: 1,306
When I first saw your user name, I thought you might be another upland game bird affectionado... Huns... they should be called Humblers, because I don't hit them very often.

Didn't see any Huns in my one brief little tour in Hungary after the USSR collapsed either, although I spent most of my time in Budapest. Interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-18-2017, 08:22 PM
Hun Shooter Hun Shooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Hillsboro, OR
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
That's a very handsome pistol. I notice that your FEG 40 has a flared front on the grip frame. Mine does not.
FEG is a conundrum.

Both of my FEG's are 9mm :-)
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-18-2017, 08:26 PM
Burgs Burgs is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 9,139
The bluing on it looks exceptional!
__________________
Cordially, ~Burgs


"I've been up early my whole life, and all that ever did was increase the amount of time during the day something could go wrong." ~ Inspector O
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:18 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved