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  #76  
Old 08-14-2016, 11:49 AM
L.E. L.E. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamG247 View Post
... I think we have gotten this wrong. Instead of closing debate, perhaps we should be more focused on dealing with the Offenders whom can not debate in a respectful and polite manner....
Sounds great in theory, Adam, but it presupposes that the mods have both the time and inclination to oversee the affair. From their comments, I'm inclined to think they have neither.
To me, for every several handfuls of respectful and polite posts, there always comes along the one that's not even remotely polite or tactful. Or, more troubling, shows so little evidence of critical thought that it's painful to try to process. I won't miss them. I've got CNN for that.
L.
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  #77  
Old 08-14-2016, 11:55 AM
BoulderTroll BoulderTroll is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamG247 View Post
This Nation was built on the principals of Open and unhindered debate. I think we have gotten this wrong. Instead of closing debate, perhaps we should be more focused on dealing with the Offenders whom can not debate in a respectful and polite manner.

Debating among ourselves helps us see our own weaknesses as 2A proponents. Suffocating this exchange will only work to our own detriment in the long run. Shutting our eyes to the issues, weaknesses and potential pitfalls. I am currently working to help the Local GOP Committee develop talking points and Political Action Plans, for what our message needs to be and how to best deliver this message. I have drawn upon this very Forum as an incredible mining tool. There are some remarkable deep thinkers in here. On both sides of the issues! I am sad to see constructive conversation cease. So to will the sharing of ideas, thoughts and talking points. To win this election cycle we Must know our Enemy. We must know how they think and the arguments they will proffer. Essentially putting our heads in the sand, is not the answer.

While I understand the extra strain this has placed on our Admins and in some regards I can related to their decision. I implore them to rethink this total and complete ban. Consider a set of hard and fast Debate Rules that will apply in the 2A section. Anyone who violates them gets an automatic 2 week vacation. No warnings, no hesitation. Make the conversation polite, gentleman like and respectful.

It was never the debate that was the problem. It was particular individuals who confused debating with Street Fighting.

Perhaps I will be treated to my own 2 week vacation for sharing my opinion. I hope not, and I think this is the best Moderated Forum on the Internet. I support this Forum with my pocketbook and will continue to do so, vacation or not.

But I felt compelled to point out that we may be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. This will be my last word on this subject should the Admins stay the course. If however, they decide to reconsider I offer my services to the Admins in developing "2A Debating Rules" or the like.
Very well said, Adam, but I am siding more with the Mod's point of view than with yours. All your points are valid when a debate is wanted or needed. That point has past. I think you missed LW's point, and the point of the mods; debate time is over. I agree with them. I think the first three years following an election are the appropriate times for debating a candidate's performance, flaws, or suitability. When election time is upon us that time is over.

"You may talk o' gin and beer when you're quartered safe out 'ere...But when it comes to slaughter you will do your work on water."

Politically speaking, we're past the gin and beer stage...no more need for that debate.
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  #78  
Old 08-14-2016, 12:00 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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Kinda seems like LW should have made the post and locked the thread.
Simple statement. Done. Nuff said. Locked.

Now we will debate why we need to follow rules for twenty pages?
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  #79  
Old 08-14-2016, 12:04 PM
sawgunner04 sawgunner04 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamG247 View Post
This Nation was built on the principals of Open and unhindered debate. I think we have gotten this wrong. Instead of closing debate, perhaps we should be more focused on dealing with the Offenders whom can not debate in a respectful and polite manner.

Debating among ourselves helps us see our own weaknesses as 2A proponents. Suffocating this exchange will only work to our own detriment in the long run. Shutting our eyes to the issues, weaknesses and potential pitfalls. I am currently working to help the Local GOP Committee develop talking points and Political Action Plans, for what our message needs to be and how to best deliver this message. I have drawn upon this very Forum as an incredible mining tool. There are some remarkable deep thinkers in here. On both sides of the issues! I am sad to see constructive conversation cease. So to will the sharing of ideas, thoughts and talking points. To win this election cycle we Must know our Enemy. We must know how they think and the arguments they will proffer. Essentially putting our heads in the sand, is not the answer.

While I understand the extra strain this has placed on our Admins and in some regards I can related to their decision. I implore them to rethink this total and complete ban. Consider<script id="gpt-impl-0.06184321267576803" src="https://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_93.js"></script> a set of hard and fast Debate Rules that will apply in the 2A section. Anyone who violates them gets an automatic 2 week vacation. No warnings, no hesitation. Make the conversation polite, gentleman like and respectful.

It was never the debate that was the problem. It was particular individuals who confused debating with Street Fighting.

Perhaps I will be treated to my own 2 week vacation for sharing my opinion. I hope not, and I think this is the best Moderated Forum on the Internet. I support this Forum with my pocketbook and will continue to do so, vacation or not.

But I felt compelled to point out that we may be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. This will be my last word on this subject should the Admins stay the course. If however, they decide to reconsider I offer my services to the Admins in developing "2A Debating Rules" or the like.
People like you is one of the main reasons I visit this forum (among other things). Your well thought out post speaks volumes for your character. I too, love to debate. But one should never stoop so low as to name calling or refusing to see the other side. If you never look to see the other side, how are you going to know how good you have it?
  #80  
Old 08-14-2016, 12:04 PM
nypd3765 nypd3765 is offline
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To L W McVay. I know I am late to the party posting on he 4th page, but thank you for taking a stand for our second amendment. There is one clear choice and while Donald Trump isn't 100% perfect He is still the clear choice.
  #81  
Old 08-14-2016, 12:12 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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Quote:
But I felt compelled to point out that we may be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. This will be my last word on this subject should the Admins stay the course. If however, they decide to reconsider I offer my services to the Admins in developing "2A Debating Rules" or the like.
The problem with that is it would still have to be moderated. I don't think any forum wants to try to moderate a political debate in an election year. I'm amazed that this forum even attempts to do such a thing given that 2A is such a hot issue this time. I appreciate their time and effort to make that possible. I also understand the logistics and possibly the economic impact of doing that.

I will say this in your support however. The way the adm has gone about this it appears that they have made a political statement and taken a political position. Sort of like one of those 30.06 signs in Texas.
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  #82  
Old 08-14-2016, 12:22 PM
Silverquick Silverquick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysanthemum View Post
Agree with direction taken. Otherwise, we're wasting valuable time and energy that could be better directed towards defeating enemies of the 2A.
Agreed...

On top of that you can't tell who is a DNC Superpac paid Internet Troll from someone who really just is posting an opinion...

And given how important stopping Hillary's anti second amendment crusade is...

Its time to focus efforts on the task at hand...
  #83  
Old 08-14-2016, 12:23 PM
jamiesaun jamiesaun is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ Jackson View Post
This site is becoming very political. LW McVay thank you for directing the forum in this direction and not allowing members with the wrong viewpoint to post here. 1911 Forum Lives Matter!
It has, but that's because this election is different. With so much at stake, and such strange picks for the candidates, emotion cannot help but boil over.

I like a man who leads by example. LW hates Trump, or did in the primaries anyways, some of the funniest name calling was coined by him. I remember it clearly. But now that time is over, and it's time to do what needs to be done. It's Trump or bust, it's just that simple. Loud mouth and poor choice of words aside, look at his rallies, then look at Hilary's. Enough said. The New York Times and CNN aren't fooling anybody except the fools.
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Last edited by jamiesaun; 08-14-2016 at 12:28 PM.
  #84  
Old 08-14-2016, 12:32 PM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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Some ranges, especially the more advanced club's require one to be an NRA-Member in good standing if you want to join (my Club does this)...It is not a stretch to acknowledge the notion that this 1911 Forum "Club" requires one to support the only Presidential candidate who supports 2A, or if you can't do this, at least keep one's typing fingers under control...This is not a 1A issue, it is a 2A issue, this is a gun-forum, privately owned, whose very survival may be at stake if Hillary gets in...Bashing Trump, and continually parroting the Liberal Media's bull-crap, isn't going to do a dam thing besides spread doubt and demotivate follow gun-owners not to vote in Nov...99% of the bashing accomplishes absolutely nothing for our cause and is very often an emotional outburst and sometimes trolling (we do have some here, they aren't hard to spot). If you are (truly) interested in giving suggestion's (as some have claimed) to Trump, send his staff an e-mail...MHO of course.
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Last edited by combat auto; 08-14-2016 at 12:48 PM.
  #85  
Old 08-14-2016, 12:43 PM
Silverquick Silverquick is offline
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Well that is true Combat Auto... one of them near me requires being an NRA member as well.
  #86  
Old 08-14-2016, 01:12 PM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostintheOzone View Post
The way the adm has gone about this it appears that they have made a political statement and taken a political position.
Yes, we love a sport whose very survival requires us to take a political position. We can thank the Lefty's for that.
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  #87  
Old 08-14-2016, 01:18 PM
Grizzman Grizzman is offline
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Thank you, LW!! We must work as a team.
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  #88  
Old 08-14-2016, 01:19 PM
L.E. L.E. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
Yes, we love a sport whose very survival requires us to take a political position. We can thank the Lefty's for that.
Football is a sport. The 2nd Amendment, by it's very definition, has been a "political position" since it was first written.
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  #89  
Old 08-14-2016, 01:25 PM
Russ Jackson Russ Jackson is offline
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Thank you all for making the decision for me when it comes to the Presidential race. I doubt without the guidance from my extremely wise and all knowing fellow members of the 1911 forum I and many members may have drank the kool-aid and not voted the 1911 forum way. Please continue to stop all talk and posts that are contrary to the 1911 Forum way. If we see any members posting different from the 1911 beliefs whom should we report them to?
  #90  
Old 08-14-2016, 01:33 PM
michaelcj michaelcj is offline
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I originally joined the forum to participate in technical discussion regarding the 1911….
I have drifted over here on occasion to see what's being discussed and found comments that both encouraged and discouraged me…. and even made comments trying to limit myself to objectively considered comments, mostly on constitutional issues.

I am 67 have been a shooter/owner since I was 7 and grandda taught me to shoot with a model 1890.
I have been an LEO for going on 40 years
I believe in the second amendment but I am not a single issue voter

I don't know that it matters much to the forum, the folks that continue here, or the outcome of any election….. but you have lost and alienated many would be supporters of our causes…. republican, independent, and yes democratic alike.

Your forum, your rules…. I respect that. Deleting from my favorites…feel free to delete me as well.
  #91  
Old 08-14-2016, 01:34 PM
cavelamb cavelamb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevCain777 View Post
I think I'm bright enough to see the damage done to the 2A by picking the wrong candidate. Please show me some credible indicators that Trump will win. Please. I'm not seeing any so please help out. I'll rely on your vast wisdom.

Indicators?

I'm voting for Mr. Trump.

If you are too, then we got them beat - 2-0!
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  #92  
Old 08-14-2016, 01:49 PM
HT77 HT77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevCain777 View Post
I think I'm bright enough to see the damage done to the 2A by picking the wrong candidate. Please show me some credible indicators that Trump will win. Please. I'm not seeing any so please help out. I'll rely on your vast wisdom.
Either Trump or Hillary Clinton will be the next President. Its too early to say which will win. What is the point of bemoaning the fact that Trump is now behind in the polls? Even if he is 40 points behind the day before the election I will still vote him so what is your point of asking for "credible indicators" that he will win? Are you not going to vote for him just because he is behind? Its either him or her. There are no other possibilities.
  #93  
Old 08-14-2016, 02:00 PM
cavelamb cavelamb is offline
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Bill Moyers has done some great essays on money in politics corruption
in his time, but this might be his finest work to date.

http://bulletin.represent.us/outraged-bill-moyers/


Lock, stock, and pork barrel...
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  #94  
Old 08-14-2016, 02:12 PM
Bluesdog Bluesdog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post
Nope. I'm tired, actual sick to death of supposedly pro 2A people gutting each other. The time for that is past. It's Trump or nothing. It's just that very very simple. And anyone that wants to argue is playing for the other team. Which they can do. Just not here. It's just that critical.

If Trump blows it, it won't be because the 2A crowd didn't vote for him. At least that's the way it should be now.
This is the passion we need to see from all pro-2A fans...plus others. Now if we can only bottle it and drop it into the clouds so it rains on all
  #95  
Old 08-14-2016, 02:14 PM
Russ Jackson Russ Jackson is offline
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As promised.

Last edited by LW McVay; 08-14-2016 at 02:22 PM.
  #96  
Old 08-14-2016, 02:20 PM
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LW McVay LW McVay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelcj View Post
I originally joined the forum to participate in technical discussion regarding the 1911….
I have drifted over here on occasion to see what's being discussed and found comments that both encouraged and discouraged me…. and even made comments trying to limit myself to objectively considered comments, mostly on constitutional issues. Awesome!

I am 67 have been a shooter/owner since I was 7 and grandda taught me to shoot with a model 1890. Awesome! You are like many others here...to include myself. Taught be a man of another generation...nay, another country as it were.
I have been an LEO for going on 40 years Awesome! Thank you for your service to your community, state or country.
I believe in the second amendment but I am not a single issue voter So then you aren't really a believer, because you are fine on letting someone else determine the outcome of the 2A - the absolute foundation upon which all other "rights" rest. And that is your right, and of course that's ok, but let's call a spade a spade.

I don't know that it matters much to the forum, the folks that continue here, or the outcome of any election….. but you have lost and alienated many would be supporters of our causes…. republican, independent, and yes democratic alike. I could care less about alienating a Democrat. Because in the end, it is the Democrats that are destroying our Bill of Rights with the help of a goodly number of turncoat Returdicans. And if I've alienated anyone else because of my Pro 2A stance, though I highly doubt it save for the sent trolls, so bet it.

Your forum, your rules…. I respect that. Deleting from my favorites Your choice, feel free.…feel free to delete me as well. Nope.
Commentary in RED.
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  #97  
Old 08-14-2016, 02:23 PM
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LW McVay LW McVay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ Jackson View Post
Thank you all for making the decision for me when it comes to the Presidential race. I doubt without the guidance from my extremely wise and all knowing fellow members of the 1911 forum I and many members may have drank the kool-aid and not voted the 1911 forum way. Please continue to stop all talk and posts that are contrary to the 1911 Forum way. If we see any members posting different from the 1911 beliefs whom should we report them to?
No one is telling you how to vote. No one.

What I've said is, no more anti-Trump crap. Take that back to your DNC handlers.
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  #98  
Old 08-14-2016, 02:30 PM
Bluesdog Bluesdog is offline
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Originally Posted by kenenz View Post
This election cycle, it's kind of easy to get wound up. What say we all turn off our computers, phones, & TVs for a bit. Pick up your favorite 1911, and go out shooting.
I kinda made this decision last week, the media is so anti-trump that I am ignoring it totally, and Obama and Hillary are so corrupt that I even get frustrated at all the facts and evidence of it coming out and realizing nothing may come of it. So no more tv news, internet news sites and I am even ignoring my RS Reader for awhile. If Hillary wins I may never watch or read another news story again...too depressing.

I think best thing is to simply go shooting and get caught up on some good books.
  #99  
Old 08-14-2016, 02:32 PM
NonHyphenAmerican NonHyphenAmerican is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevCain777 View Post
I think I'm bright enough to see the damage done to the 2A by picking the wrong candidate. Please show me some credible indicators that Trump will win. Please. I'm not seeing any so please help out. I'll rely on your vast wisdom.
Ask and ye shall receive. Note: When seeking information, Google can be your friend.



http://www.latimes.com/nation/politi...htmlstory.html

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016...th-to-victory/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-vot...193940862.html
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Last edited by NonHyphenAmerican; 08-14-2016 at 03:57 PM.
  #100  
Old 08-14-2016, 02:32 PM
Busa Dave Busa Dave is offline
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Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post

Take that back to your DNC handlers.

He was a smart azz to post what he did but..........

Last edited by Busa Dave; 08-14-2016 at 02:34 PM.
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