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  #26  
Old 03-24-2020, 07:46 PM
Browning300 Browning300 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OZ 1911 View Post
Currently pocket carry S/A Hellcat 9x19 - previously pocket carried:
XD9,
EMP 9
XDS .45, and
G42 .380

Hellcat ideal size and great capacity

Grant
How did the G42 pocket carry? I was all but set to get that until I started looking at the mini 1911 style handguns. Is it really big in the pocket?
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  #27  
Old 03-24-2020, 08:08 PM
VIS35 VIS35 is offline
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I would never carry a cocked hammer fired pistol of any kind in my pocket regardless of the holster
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  #28  
Old 03-24-2020, 08:14 PM
Old Grey Hare Old Grey Hare is online now
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Originally Posted by cavelamb View Post
Not exactly true, Old Grey.

The Sigs 283 & 938, at least, have a completely different mechanism and work
completely different.

You CAN rack the slide with the safety on. Can't do that with a true 1911.

They have a trigger block mechanism.
Dropping the hammer without the trigger pressed won't fire.

I obviously would not carry a true 1911 with a live chamber and the hammer down.

But the little Sigs are actually completely safe that way.
Yep, but I still treat them like they're 1911's in the sense that I don't let the hammer rest on a firing pin with a round in the pipe. Old habits die hard or not at all. But my beef with hammer down on a live round isn't that I'll smack the hammer and make it go off (ok, I know the SAA is almost guaranteed to shoot you like that, but I'm talking modern guns here) -- my beef with round in chamber hammer down is that you have to cock before you can shoot. An unnecessary step, with a non-zero chance that something will go wrong, and that will be your last mistake. Just my 2˘ on the matter. I dry fire my 938 a lot, it's *easy* for that little hammer to get away from you while cocking it. Imagine doing it in a real situation, maybe dry, maybe raining, maybe muddy.. maybe dark, maybe light.. may be one guy, may be 3. You willing to bet your life, or the life of those you're protecting on that one hammer cock?

Nah, I'll stick with condition one. It's the one with the least amount of variables.

I do like that one can rack the slide or do a press check with the safety on.


Pretty sure the sigs also lock the hammer like the 1911 when safe. In fact, mine, the hammer moves a minuscule amount back when you safe it. I don' remember where I read it, but I remember reading that the sig 938 and 238 lift the hammer off the sear when you safe it, and lowers it back down onto it when you go hot.
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  #29  
Old 03-24-2020, 08:18 PM
Browning300 Browning300 is offline
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Originally Posted by VIS35 View Post
I would never carry a cocked hammer fired pistol of any kind in my pocket regardless of the holster
I’m concerned with it mostly because of the very light low travel trigger. That’s why I came here to ask. I know they have a safety but i’m also concerned the safety could be disengaged unintentionally while in my pocket. Care to share why you wouldn’t do it?
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  #30  
Old 03-24-2020, 08:26 PM
cavelamb cavelamb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Browning300 View Post
I’m concerned with it mostly because of the very light low travel trigger. That’s why I came here to ask. I know they have a safety but i’m also concerned the safety could be disengaged unintentionally while in my pocket. Care to share why you wouldn’t do it?
Same concerns here, B.
Except I will not carry in my pocket.
It's just too easy for something to wind up in the barrel.
That would be bad.


Anyway, that's part of why I picked the Sig 938.

I feel comfortable letting the hammer down on a live round and safety off.

Like the Old Guy said, that means you have to cock it.
And he's right about that.
Being a single action it won't shoot unless cocked.

What I've been doing for practice is to cock it in the holster then draw.
When drawing the trigger finger stays on the frame.
That should be a burned-in habit no matter what you carry.

It takes a twist (clockwise) to get the holster to release the pistol.
(Sig polymer holster OWB)

So it's all very deliberately done.

And I have confirmed by actual test that the 938 will not fire if you drop
the hammer and the trigger is not pressed.

It works for me.

YMMV?
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Last edited by cavelamb; 03-24-2020 at 08:30 PM.
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  #31  
Old 03-24-2020, 08:42 PM
Old Grey Hare Old Grey Hare is online now
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I'd like to point out that once, I was concerned the 1911-style thumb safeties will go hot without input. That was a week I spent just basically playing with the empty 938... see if it came off safe on its own. Not once did it ever do that. Practiced draw and reholster. Over and over. Not once did the safety come down on its own.

I've been almost daily-carrying the 938 for 5, almost 6 years now. Not once did the safety disengage on its own.

I carry my colt in the house a lot, in a military flap holster. Not once has the safety ever disengaged on its own. Heh you 1911 owners know what I'm about to say... them thumb safeties are actually harder to disengage than to engage, and if you look at it closely youll see why -- the way the plunger rides on that little end, it's made to go easier to put on safe than to take it off safe. The sig, who knows, feels the same to me going up or coming down.

I like the 1911 and derivatives because it seems to be a pistolero's pistol, with first-shot accuracy in mind: The short trigger travel, the fact that it's single-action only, give me a much higher probability of cold-bore bullseye than a revolver fired DA, or an auto pistol that has the first shot only as DA. The whole pull-pull-pull-pull-pull-BANG thing just isn't how I work.

And yes, I do train like that. Put pistol on bench while safe, pick it up, as you bring it up thumb the safety down, sight, bang. Bullseye. Do it again. And again.

I'm about to join a range that allows drawing from holster. That's my next level.

I will say tho, the 938 is downright unpleasant to shoot, at least with 115gr ammo.. trigger finger, use as little of it as possible... by contrast the 1911 is a sweetheart to shoot, she just likes expensive food and encourages you to shoot a lot.
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Last edited by Old Grey Hare; 03-24-2020 at 08:45 PM.
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  #32  
Old 03-24-2020, 08:59 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Browning300 View Post
I’m concerned with it mostly because of the very light low travel trigger. That’s why I came here to ask. I know they have a safety but i’m also concerned the safety could be disengaged unintentionally while in my pocket. Care to share why you wouldn’t do it?
I wouldn't do it either. But I could also be accused of being too focused on avoiding any kind of unintended firing.

Probably safe to say that almost everyone who has had an unintended discharge -- e.g., Plaxico Burress referenced in my earlier post-- thought that they were safe, that it wouldn't happen to them. And they would have said so much, probably with great confidence, to anyone who previously might have advised against what they were doing.

Anytime you surround a pistol -- with a round in chamber -- with pocket lining material, anything inadvertently left in the pocket, shirt tail material, etc., belt above the pocket, a less than ideal drawing position, and a holster design that's constrained by dimensions of a pocket, you have removed a layer of protection that would have been provided by avoiding all of this.

So many different guns with different manual of arms have been mentioned in this thread, that each one's margin for safety cannot be addressed by me in this one little post.

Instead, my purpose is to advise caution when removing or impinging on any layer of safety.

I know I'm being more philosophical than addressing any one specific pocket carry gun. One can always argue that some other back-up layers of safety are present (depending on whatever gun it is), and it's hard to disagree with that. But the layers of safety philosophy is the reason why I agree with VIS35.
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Last edited by chrysanthemum; 03-24-2020 at 09:20 PM.
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  #33  
Old 03-24-2020, 09:00 PM
Tenring1911 Tenring1911 is offline
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I pocket carry a Ruger LCP in a vedder pocket holster. I own many of the others firearms mentioned in this thread, but the added weight etc. not worth it to me. As mentioned a good holster is a must.

https://www.vedderholsters.com/pocket-locker-holster/
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  #34  
Old 03-24-2020, 09:02 PM
OZ 1911 OZ 1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Browning300 View Post
How did the G42 pocket carry? I was all but set to get that until I started looking at the mini 1911 style handguns. Is it really big in the pocket?
G42 was good, only for house - down side only .380 and small capacity. Hellcat everywhere.

Grant
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  #35  
Old 03-24-2020, 09:41 PM
Browning300 Browning300 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OZ 1911 View Post
G42 was good, only for house - down side only .380 and small capacity. Hellcat everywhere.

Grant
I held a hellcat today while looking for a g42. It feels nice in hand, but does “feel” much bigger than a 42 even though the specs on paper aren’t much different. How much difference do you notice pocket carrying between the two?
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  #36  
Old 03-24-2020, 09:51 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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I don't understand why people are so worried about a SA auto carried cocked and safety on, when nobody seems to care about striker-fired autos with no manual safety at all. The latter will go boom a lot more easily than a pistol which needs both the safety disengaged AND the trigger pulled.
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  #37  
Old 03-24-2020, 10:16 PM
Old Grey Hare Old Grey Hare is online now
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
I don't understand why people are so worried about a SA auto carried cocked and safety on, when nobody seems to care about striker-fired autos with no manual safety at all. The latter will go boom a lot more easily than a pistol which needs both the safety disengaged AND the trigger pulled.
This man, he speaks the truth... google "glock leg syndrome"

1911s and derivatives don't do *that*

Ultimately, as some custy ole Marines colonel said... the best safety is the one between your ears.

That colonel also had an interminable hardon for the 1911.

There's a reason why I CCW a P938. It's a chibi 1911. (that's "little" and "cute" rolled into one, for those not versed in the language of anime - jap cartoons)

They behave the same. Short trigger pull, almost no take-up, thumbs down to shoot, thumbs up to go safe.

I view the rest as... oddities....

And FWIW, I shot an LCP once, the one with a groove on the slide instead of sights. I missed *every shot* at 7 yaards.

Study Jeff Cooper's teachings. That man is pistol yoda. Trust him, you must. Learn from him, you should. There's some stuff of his on youtube.

Me? I hope to go to Gunsite one day. Too bad I'm way to late to meet him. I did read his writings avidly as a young boy, in the gun rags of the 70's and 80s...
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  #38  
Old 03-24-2020, 10:50 PM
OZ 1911 OZ 1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Browning300 View Post
I held a hellcat today while looking for a g42. It feels nice in hand, but does “feel” much bigger than a 42 even though the specs on paper aren’t much different. How much difference do you notice pocket carrying between the two?
Specs - 6 rounds 12 rounds??? and I carry the larger mag 14 rounds.

It feels like a full sized gun and shoots extremely well e.g. State guard qual 296/300 (shooting up to 15yards). Pocket wise it is a little larger but still easy carry.

Every thing with a carry gun is a compromise size, weight and caliber.

Grant
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  #39  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:42 PM
Browning300 Browning300 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OZ 1911 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Browning300 View Post
I held a hellcat today while looking for a g42. It feels nice in hand, but does “feel” much bigger than a 42 even though the specs on paper aren’t much different. How much difference do you notice pocket carrying between the two?
Specs - 6 rounds 12 rounds??? and I carry the larger mag 14 rounds.

It feels like a full sized gun and shoots extremely well e.g. State guard qual 296/300 (shooting up to 15yards). Pocket wise it is a little larger but still easy carry.

Every thing with a carry gun is a compromise size, weight and caliber.

Grant
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Last edited by Browning300; 03-24-2020 at 11:45 PM.
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  #40  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:43 PM
Browning300 Browning300 is offline
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[QUOTE=Browning300;13103426]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OZ 1911 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Browning300 View Post
I held a hellcat today while looking for a g42. It feels nice in hand, but does “feel” much bigger than a 42 even though the specs on paper aren’t much different. How much difference do you notice pocket carrying between the two?
Specs - 6 rounds 12 rounds??? and I carry the larger mag 14 rounds.

It feels like a full sized gun and shoots extremely well e.g. State guard qual 296/300 (shooting up to 15yards). Pocket wise it is a little larger but still easy carry.

Every thing with a carry gun is a compromise size, weight and caliber.

Grant
I was saying the hellcat feels much bigger even though the specs are so similar. I meant size wise. Length width height. I’m looking for a pocket gun so size matters a lot.
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  #41  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:53 PM
Browning300 Browning300 is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
I don't understand why people are so worried about a SA auto carried cocked and safety on, when nobody seems to care about striker-fired autos with no manual safety at all. The latter will go boom a lot more easily than a pistol which needs both the safety disengaged AND the trigger pulled.
That’s a very good point, and I don’t have much answer to that. I’ve never pocket carried a Glock, but I do have a g30 with a g21 mag that rides the nightstand. The whole 1911 is very new to me. The trigger on the 911 felt to me like it had significantly less travel and was much lighter. Over all I loved everything about the 911 was just concerned about pocket carry for one which is why I asked here. Thanks for the reply.
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  #42  
Old 03-25-2020, 06:47 AM
undy undy is online now
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Pocketlite's my shorts 'n flip-flops daily carry. Buffalo Bore's +P JHPs adds some power.
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  #43  
Old 03-25-2020, 06:56 AM
VIS35 VIS35 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Browning300 View Post
I’m concerned with it mostly because of the very light low travel trigger. That’s why I came here to ask. I know they have a safety but i’m also concerned the safety could be disengaged unintentionally while in my pocket. Care to share why you wouldn’t do it?
A gun is simply a bunch of mechanical pieces and parts. Pieces and parts can break, fail, slip, slide, whatever. I've worked on many models 1911 and HPs over the years, so have a pretty good working knowledge of the design and intended function. The only pistol ( as in semi-auto ) to pocket carry is a DA only with a long trigger pull. I pocket carry a Seecamp.

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Last edited by VIS35; 03-25-2020 at 07:31 AM.
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  #44  
Old 03-25-2020, 07:16 AM
JamieC JamieC is offline
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Another P365 pocket carry guy, it also fits well in my Pistol Wear 'belly band' which I wear when in T shirt, gym shorts and/or running. When I put a 12 round mag in it, it rides in either a Stealth Gear, (good for hot Florida summers) or a Milt Sparks Summer Special.
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  #45  
Old 03-25-2020, 08:50 AM
SCfromNY SCfromNY is offline
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I rarely pocket carry. I used to carry a Kahr PM9 in a DeSantis Superfly when I did. I have since traded the PM9 for a Sig P365 which I am VERY HAPPY with. A small aside about the Kahr PM9 which was a great gun in 9mm but a beast in .40.
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  #46  
Old 03-25-2020, 09:22 AM
SmokeEater2 SmokeEater2 is offline
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I pocket carry a Smith 638 sometimes in a Simply Rugged Pocket Protector holster, Best 25 bucks I've spent in a long time.
https://www.simplyrugged.com/ecommer...166&parent=669
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  #47  
Old 03-25-2020, 11:02 AM
Old Grey Hare Old Grey Hare is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undy View Post
Pocketlite's my shorts 'n flip-flops daily carry. Buffalo Bore's +P JHPs adds some power.
I still want a Pocketlite. Nothing wrong with the p938, it's just that I have a Colt fetish
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  #48  
Old 03-25-2020, 12:58 PM
Liveliner Liveliner is offline
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[QUOTE=VIS35;13103576]A gun is simply a bunch of mechanical pieces and parts. Pieces and parts can break, fail, slip, slide, whatever. I've worked on many models 1911 and HPs over the years, so have a pretty good working knowledge of the design and intended function. The only pistol ( as in semi-auto ) to pocket carry is a DA only with a long trigger pull. I pocket carry a Seecamp.

What he said. First, pocket carry is already a compromise. Small gun, caliber hard to deploy compared to AIWB or OWB. For me striker fire is a no go in the pocket, no way. I guess 1911 style small guns carried cocked & locked could work. To me nothing can beat a small DA revolver or DA semi auto like a SW 380 Bodyguard for pocket carry. That hard first trigger pull is your friend in the pocket. I have 1911's, semi's & revolvers but for pocket carry a double action is the best tool for that job.
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  #49  
Old 03-25-2020, 01:35 PM
SpringerXD SpringerXD is offline
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Originally Posted by Old Grey Hare View Post
THe safety in the 1911 actually *locks* the hammer. It sticks a cam into a notch in the hammer.

When you half-cock, you cannot engage the safety. Hammer coming down from half-cock could ignite the round in the chamnber.

The thing is perfectly safe cocked, one in the chamber, and locked with the thumb safety. Ever hear the saying "Cocked and Locked"

The 1911 is where it came from.

Any other way is opening yourself up for disaster. Empty chamber? now you have to rack the slide, under duress. It could end up costing you your life.

One in the chamber, hammer down? Now you ahve to cock the hammer fully, risk your thumb slipping off, disaster. Could end up with you getting shot, or having a negligent discharge *or both at the same time*.

One in the chamber, cocked and locked -- all you do is push down on the thumb safety. You should be pushing the safety down as you draw anyway, finger off the trigger.

The 1911 and anything along those lines (sig p238, p938, pocketlite Mustang, real Mustang, baby .380 1911 -- all work along the same lines.

This is bound to descend into another of the thousands of threads on how to properly carry a SAO 1911-esque pistol.

For me there's only one proper way -- Condition One -- hammer back, safety on, one in the chamber. In a good holster.

I have a P938 and carry it every day almost. In a 4 o'clock in the waistband holster. It's always cocked and locked unless I'm cleaning it or shooting it.

Pocket carry is for movies. Or people with gigantic pockets. If you do pocket carry at least stick it in a decent pocket holster.
I agree with all but the part I bolded at the bottom.

Pocket carry is a very legitimate carry method and possibly the fastest draw, especially if your hand just happens to be in that pocket.
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  #50  
Old 03-25-2020, 02:59 PM
cavelamb cavelamb is offline
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Updating your sig line old grey...

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