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  #26  
Old 05-31-2019, 05:06 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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Loading the 9mm.....

When a person loads 9mm, and it chambers properly in all guns but one....the gun that does not allow proper chambering my have a short leade, so the ogive of the bullet restricts the cartridge from seating properly.

People call this a "tight chamber" but that is not really a good definition. I have purchased gunsmith fit 9mm Kart and Bar Sto barrels, and sometimes there is not enough leade in the barrel....rifle shooters call this free bore. A "finishing reamer" will fix the issue...…

I don't want to reload 9mm rounds deeper than needed because the barrel has a short leade…..best to use a finishing reamer!
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  #27  
Old 06-01-2019, 02:30 PM
78Staff 78Staff is offline
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Originally Posted by july19 View Post
1.115 is what I load to on RN Extreme plated. They work in my GI’s and DW Valor.
Same here, FP Plated at 1.115 - works fine in my DW PM9 and Silverback, and a Glock 19. But, I picked up a M&P 2.0 5" and would get feed failures occasionally, not fully going into battery. Did some plunking and found I had to go down to 1.07 with FP's to feed reliably in the 2.0 barrel. Changed my PF by +10 adjusting down.

This is actually my last batch of flat points, once I shoot through these last 500 or so I have 5K of Acme Coated Round Nose that I will be using going forward.
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  #28  
Old 06-01-2019, 06:44 PM
MSgt Dotson MSgt Dotson is offline
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FMJ/RN are 1.14" and flat points/JHP at 1.115" seems to work in a vast majority of 9x19 pistols; not to say longer OAL would not work in most, but, too long (but still 'within spec' can cause issues in some tighter chambered/short chambered/'match grade' pistol barrels as known/rumored to ship in some Springfield 1911/EMP, and CZ/Dan Wesson variants, etc....
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  #29  
Old 06-02-2019, 05:36 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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1911 barrels with tight chambers.....

A good finishing reamer may cost about $75. It does not require a mill or lathe, and can be used by hand...… Once you correct a barrel with a tight chamber, it will usually allow any bullet profile within spec. to seat properly in the barrel. Adding a bit of leade to a barrel will also help to lower peak pressure......
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  #30  
Old 06-02-2019, 10:50 AM
BC17A BC17A is offline
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Originally Posted by passx View Post
Butch, all i’m Doing at this point is a taper crimp, may roll crimp in the future but I have a lot to learn before that becomes something i’ll Do.

I’m a little surprised at the number of deformed rims i’m Finding and They just go in the Trash at This point.

Also, just wanted to say thanks for helping me out on all this.
Never roll-crimp a semi-auto round, always taper-crimp. Roll-crimp is for revolvers.

I've read through this thread and have some advice to add, but need more info on that 124FN bullet you're using. What's the length of that bullet, and is it a hollow base or flat base?
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  #31  
Old 06-11-2019, 06:48 PM
MSgt Dotson MSgt Dotson is offline
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Originally Posted by Andyk View Post
I've been loading my PCC 115gr rn to 1.115 but it is near impossible to manually eject a round once its chambered. Have to shoot it out with no mag or empty mag. They all case gauge and shoot fine, just to long I guess.
A weapon that can not clear even a 1.11" loaded RN round is a potential safety hazard, as that is already a fairly short...; one can't always just 'shoot it out' depending on location.

Any 9mm weapon's ejection port should be designed to safely allow clearing a loaded round...

(Not your fault, of course....; just sayin'!)
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  #32  
Old 06-11-2019, 07:30 PM
WalterGC WalterGC is offline
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Originally Posted by Colt191145 View Post
If you are using mixed brass your OAL will have variations. Not all bullets are exactly the same length consistently either. After trial and error you will find an OAL that works in your pistol(s).

Be sure to go slow and "read" your primers. The fired brass and primers will tell you what is going on. Flattened primers mean high pressure.

As for the question of how much "inventory" to keep on hand, I can refer you to the one phrase to live by: "there is never enough ammo"!

If you recall 2008 and 2012, store bought ammo was in short supply and very expensive.

That will happen again. Keep loading, build your ammo stash. When another ammo shortage comes along you will have enough ammo loaded to laugh your way through the drought.

Reloaders stock up on brass, bullets, primers and powder. If you are even more ambitious then start casting your own bullets. You will need a supply of lead, some bullet moulds, and sizing dies then.
Case length is irrelevant to o.a.l., Forrest
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  #33  
Old 06-11-2019, 09:34 PM
passx passx is offline
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Well, to check back in on this. I’ve been loading my 9mm berry’s 124g flat nosed rounds to 1.113-1.118in and it has worked great in all the 9mm pistol’s I have, a magic marker is your friend and they’ve Worked really well until today. When I reached into the back of. My safe and pulled out my neglected ed brown 9mm executive. It would not feed these rounds at all, wouldn’t allow the slide to go into battery and there’s clear marking on the bullet where it hit the rifling or the lead-in. I need to magic Marker some rounds tomorrow and then i’m Guessing (at this point) that i’ll End up shortening the round down to i’m Guessing around 1.100 to. 1.110in, we’ll see.

This has been a lot of fun and quite the learning experience, I’m totally surprised at how much more accurate my rounds seem to be compared to the factory rounds i’ve Been using. My groups are about 1/2 of what i’m Used to seeing. Just need to get them to fit the only Gun I didn’t check them in now, might be worth a investment in a 9mm chamber finish reamer.

Last edited by passx; 06-11-2019 at 09:36 PM.
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  #34  
Old 06-12-2019, 10:26 PM
OZ 1911 OZ 1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldfut808 View Post
....
How does brass affect OAL?
I has to do with the crimp (Yes taper crimp for auto's) a shorter or longer case will have a looser or tighter crimp. Hope this helps.

Grant
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  #35  
Old 03-22-2020, 06:19 PM
DWW DWW is offline
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Hi All, I’m new here and to reloading. I have some CFE Pistol on order along with Winchester casings, CCI primers, and Winchester JHP .355. Hodgdon calls for GDHP with CFE. Am I going to be ok with what I have coming (JHP instead of the GDHP)? Or do I need to follow the loading app specifically? I appreciate it.
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  #36  
Old 03-22-2020, 06:37 PM
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RetiredRod RetiredRod is online now
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Welcome to the Forum, DWW. Glad to have you here. In addition to answering specific questions we try to help members, especially new ones, with reloading terminology. The round (usually) brass things that a primer, powder and bullet go into are called "cases", or just sometimes "brass". Casings are what sausage is stuffed into.

You'll be ok using load data for GDHP with your Win JHP's. The only question might be finding the best cartridge over-all length (usually abbreviated OAL). The plunk test is the method most of us use for determining OAL. If you're not familiar with the plunk test, just ask.
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  #37  
Old 03-22-2020, 07:22 PM
DWW DWW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredRod View Post
Welcome to the Forum, DWW. Glad to have you here. In addition to answering specific questions we try to help members, especially new ones, with reloading terminology. The round (usually) brass things that a primer, powder and bullet go into are called "cases", or just sometimes "brass". Casings are what sausage is stuffed into. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://forums.1911forum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

You'll be ok using load data for GDHP with your Win JHP's. The only question might be finding the best cartridge over-all length (usually abbreviated OAL). The plunk test is the method most of us use for determining OAL. If you're not familiar with the plunk test, just ask.
Thank you very much! Thanks for the correction as well. I will research the plunk test, but if like to expound on it, that would be appreciated.
-David
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  #38  
Old 03-22-2020, 08:07 PM
Oldfut808 Oldfut808 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OZ 1911 View Post
I has to do with the crimp (Yes taper crimp for auto's) a shorter or longer case will have a looser or tighter crimp. Hope this helps.

Grant
.....
Another zombie thread. I just noticed this today.
Anyway I would like to agree that case length variation will affect the crimp.
But that wasn't the question.
The statement was made that mixed brass would cause oal variations.
Fwiw, I'll disagree with that statement....9 months later.

Since the range is closed, I have more time to waste.
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  #39  
Old 03-22-2020, 09:59 PM
cavelamb cavelamb is offline
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Originally Posted by passx View Post
This has been an Enlightening experience. My Hodgdon loading manual recommended an overall length of 1.150 for this load and after reading the responses here it dawned on me that it’s not as much about the spacing in the Shell as it is headspacing and not pushing the bullet to deep into the chamber and rifling. The sharpie was a great suggestion and showed me that a overall length of 1.150 was to long and wouldn’t allow the bullet to fully seat in the chamber w/o hitting the rifling. Shortening things up a bit to 1.140in and it fits my “tight” Springfield chamberjust fine as well as my gauge block. I was concerned that shortening the OAL would cause excess pressure in the cartridge.

Am I thinking correctly about this ?



The "recommended" part is not right.
That was just the length that was tested.
But right on about the headspacing and "jump".

And you were right about shortening the AOL increasing pressure.
But how short is "excessive"?
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  #40  
Old 03-22-2020, 10:01 PM
cavelamb cavelamb is offline
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Originally Posted by RetiredRod View Post
Yes, shortening the OAL will increase pressure. Whether or not it becomes "excessive" pressure is difficult (almost impossible) to say for us handloaders without pressure-measuring instrumentation. In my experience, if your OAL is just long enough to "plunk" & feed properly, and you're not at the very max., you will be OK pressure-wise. The proper procedure is to start at the min. charge and work your way up, looking for "pressure signs" (i.e. unusual recoil, flattened primers, difficult extraction (swelled case), or, in the extreme, a blown out case.

And NOT using an extra long bullet like a 147 grain RN...

I read about some guy on the net seating those to 1.100 OAL.
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  #41  
Old 03-25-2020, 07:34 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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Using mixed headstamp 9mm brass

The above will not affect the case length, however, if the case walls of the brass are thinner or thicker, it may affect the case pressure and accuracy....maybe not severely, but enough to make a difference.

When I want to test the accuracy of my gun builds, I use new or once fired Starline brass, and shoot from a sand bag rest at roughly 25 yards. I look at my Lyman 50th Edition reloading manual, to see what bullet weight and powder combination shows the best results in their testing. Once I select the bullet weight and brand of powder I want to test, I will then work up a load starting with the minimum powder charge, and make ten rounds each and increase the powder charge by .3 of a grain for each ten round batch, until I am nearing the max charge listed in the Lyman manual. When I test fire the rounds from a sand bag rest, I check for any signs of excessive case pressure, like flattened primers, on the fired cases...…
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  #42  
Old 03-25-2020, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by passx View Post
This has been an Enlightening experience. My Hodgdon loading manual recommended an overall length of 1.150 for this load and after reading the responses here it dawned on me that it’s not as much about the spacing in the Shell as it is headspacing and not pushing the bullet to deep into the chamber and rifling. The sharpie was a great suggestion and showed me that a overall length of 1.150 was to long and wouldn’t allow the bullet to fully seat in the chamber w/o hitting the rifling. Shortening things up a bit to 1.140in and it fits my “tight” Springfield chamberjust fine as well as my gauge block. I was concerned that shortening the OAL would cause excess pressure in the cartridge.

Am I thinking correctly about this ?
Ogive diameter varies from bullet type to bullet type at the point the ogive contacts the rifling. That in turn causes each type to need different seating depth. Minor differences in seating depth due to the ogive diameter aren't going to cause pressure problems.

The other side of the coin though, is reliable feeding. Even if the ogive fit is OK, the OAL may cause feeding problems by being too long or too short. Too long and you'll have magazine problems. Too short may cause issues going up the feed ramp, and so on. Usually, if it feeds from the magazine OK, and gets up the ramp into the chamber OK, the OAL and ogive will take care of themselves.

I've found a good way to start out is find a good factory load that works with the same bullet type, then duplicate it on my handloads initially. If everything works OK, tinker with seating depth, etc., as needed. Back in the day, you also had to consider the mechanics of the gun, as a lot of them were picky on what would and wouldn't work. These days, most will feed and function fine with just about everything. The influence of truncated cone and hollow point bullets has benefited everybody in that respect.
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  #43  
Old 03-26-2020, 11:02 AM
Sailormilan2 Sailormilan2 is offline
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This site might explain reasons for different seating depths/COLs. While it is about the 38 Super, it really pertains to all semi auto cartridges.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170405...%20Length.html

The overall length of the cartridge is a very important detail. That’s why handloading manuals list the overall length (seating depth) for every different bullet. Overall length affects gun function and safety. If the bullet is seated too long, the cartridge might get stuck in the magazine. Or the cartridge might jam during feeding because the bullet engages the riflings before the case is far enough in the chamber. This will prevent the slide from going all the way forward and the gun won't fire. If the cartridge is too short it can cause feeding failures if the point of the cartridge nose-dives and hits the feed ramp lower than usual and at a sharper angle.

Seating depth also affects pressure. The deeper the bullet, the higher the pressure. Normally this is balanced with a gunpowder charge appropriate for the bullet weight and seating depth. But when the cartridge is loaded to maximum pressure, and the bullet is seated significantly deeper than it should be, a dramatic increase in pressure can skyrocket to dangerous levels and this risks the chance of a case blowout, or worse.
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  #44  
Old 03-26-2020, 11:47 AM
july19 july19 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy Bill View Post
The OAL length is different for many different guns. There are, if I remember correctly, 4 different chamber v. barrel configurations. The best way to determine where you need to be is load one and put it in the barrel (out of the gun) and see if it chambers completely, if not it's too long. Shoot for the longest OAL to comfortably fit in the barrel.
This^^^^. A recommended COAL is a starting point but the plunk test is the final word.
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