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  #26  
Old 03-02-2020, 07:13 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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This is incorrect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goaround28 View Post
I know where you're going. But by definition:

civilian
[ si-vil-yuh n ]
SEE SYNONYMS FOR civilian ON THESAURUS.COM
noun

a person who is not on active duty with a military, naval, police, or fire fighting organization.


https://www.dictionary.com/browse/civilian
If you are not governed by the uniform code of military justice. Then you are a civilian. You can not always believe everything that you read.
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  #27  
Old 03-02-2020, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
If you are not governed by the uniform code of military justice. Then you are a civilian. You can not always believe everything that you read.
This is what I was taught. I appears that the definition has been changed...by whomever, for whatever reason. I'm not going to go there and derail this thread, but I wanted to post that I agree that we were taught that definition in the military back when I was in (admittedly that was almost 50 years ago).
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  #28  
Old 03-02-2020, 07:36 PM
goaround28 goaround28 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
If you are not governed by the uniform code of military justice. Then you are a civilian. You can not always believe everything that you read.
This was always my understanding as well although the dictionary definition permeates the first responder professions. In fact I was surprised when I checked the difinition expecting UCMJ and found it said what it did.

Part of the reason is because within the FR agencies there are "sworn" and "civilian" ranks which leads to the mindset that if one is sworn they are not civilian. It also gave rise to the "not sworn, not born" phrase.
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Last edited by goaround28; 03-02-2020 at 07:44 PM.
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  #29  
Old 03-02-2020, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goaround28 View Post
This was always my understanding as well although the definition permeates the first responder professions. In fact I was surprised when I checked the difinition and found it said what it did.
If I can get to a library and access a Webster's full unabridged dictionary in the next several days (mine is in a box in my storage until at the moment), I will check the definition; not many of today's folks use books (like dictionaries), they just look for everything on the web.
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  #30  
Old 03-02-2020, 07:49 PM
goaround28 goaround28 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpas50AE View Post
If I can get to a library and access a Webster's full unabridged dictionary in the next several days (mine is in a box in my storage until at the moment), I will check the definition; not many of today's folks use books (like dictionaries), they just look for everything on the web.

Amen Roger. And then it's believed even though that little voice...
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  #31  
Old 03-02-2020, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goaround28 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
If you are not governed by the uniform code of military justice. Then you are a civilian. You can not always believe everything that you read.
This was always my understanding as well although the dictionary definition permeates the first responder professions. In fact I was surprised when I checked the difinition expecting UCMJ and found it said what it did.

Part of the reason is because within the FR agencies there are "sworn" and "civilian" ranks which leads to the mindset that if one is sworn they are not civilian. It also gave rise to the "not sworn, not born" phrase.
Ok, sworn. So what? What does that have to do with the OP?
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  #32  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:03 PM
goaround28 goaround28 is offline
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Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post
Ok, sworn. So what? What does that have to do with the OP?

I think the point is that those not under ucmj, but who work in one of the professions defined in the interwebz dictionary don't view themselves as civilians because their organizations are divided into civilian and something else. Sworn is "something else" thereby not civilian. Ergo, I am sworn, I am not a civilian.
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  #33  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:09 PM
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Uh no, that would make you a sworn civilian. Much ado here about nothing. Semantics.
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  #34  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:12 PM
goaround28 goaround28 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post
Uh no, that would make you a sworn civilian. Much ado here about nothing. Semantics.

Couldn't agree more. But sadly there's much ado about it. I worked in it for 31 years.
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  #35  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goaround28 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post
Uh no, that would make you a sworn civilian. Much ado here about nothing. Semantics.

Couldn't agree more. But sadly there's much ado about it. I worked in it for 31 years.
You were a cop?
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  #36  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:18 PM
goaround28 goaround28 is offline
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The other...happy side of public safety. The one where people wave at you with their hand, not their finger, when you drive by
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  #37  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:21 PM
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I appreciate your honesty. As I suspected.
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  #38  
Old 03-04-2020, 05:54 PM
jeepcj5 jeepcj5 is offline
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A rank and file officer as well as SWAT team members, do NOT a soldier make...
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  #39  
Old 03-04-2020, 06:29 PM
taloft taloft is offline
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Can't say I blame the police for wanting to go into a gang ridden fortress of a building armed to the teeth. Otoh, do they need armored up "tanks" to make that happen? I've seen pics of raids by both police and the military. The only way to tell them apart is one group is wearing cammies, the other is wearing black with police across their backs. Lots of LEO's are former military with the training that goes with it.
Makes you wonder where the Posse Comitatus Act kicks in.
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  #40  
Old 03-04-2020, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taloft View Post
Can't say I blame the police for wanting to go into a gang ridden fortress of a building armed to the teeth. Otoh, do they need armored up "tanks" to make that happen? I've seen pics of raids by both police and the military. The only way to tell them apart is one group is wearing cammies, the other is wearing black with police across their backs. Lots of LEO's are former military with the training that goes with it.
Makes you wonder where the Posse Comitatus Act kicks in.
Uh yeah, there is a load of difference between a Bearcat and an Abrams tank.
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Last edited by LW McVay; 03-04-2020 at 08:29 PM.
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  #41  
Old 03-04-2020, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jeepcj5 View Post
A rank and file officer as well as SWAT team members, do NOT a soldier make...
Yes, and thank God for that.
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  #42  
Old 03-04-2020, 08:18 PM
jeepcj5 jeepcj5 is offline
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Sua Sponte
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  #43  
Old 03-05-2020, 03:32 PM
Fatboy46 Fatboy46 is offline
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There are military and civilians. There are LEO’s and civilians. As long as we allow the Left, the media and the hoplophobes to drive the narrative, we will be making excuses for their ignorance. Stick to the truth. 2A isn’t there for hunting. They didn’t argue over it because the deer were a threat or in order to have a shooting range in the neighborhood. They put it there so the people could defend themselves FROM a bad government. We are there. We have a BAD government.
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