Primer loading Issues - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-11-2020, 01:19 PM
passx passx is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 1,268
Primer loading Issues

Well after struggling with primer loading on my last batch of 9mm that I was making on my Dillon xl650 and I believe I’ve figured it out. I’d run a bunch of rounds and the primers would just push smoothly/effortlessly in and then I’d get a group that would just either go crunch as they went in or load sideways.

Everytime I had a problematic load I’d pull it out and soon realized that the cases were always basically the same with no real identifying head stamp usually some letters only “ WMA” and usually no caliber ID.

Measuring these cases showed the primer pockets are generally .003-.006in smaller than the normal head stamped brass like that of a normal Aguila, Federal or Blazer Brass where it has the manufacturers name and the caliber id like 9mm.

A local gun shop owner who also is a former military armorer (Vietnam) says that these are military brass with crimped pockets and can be easily id’d because of a lack of caliber id stamp. Looking closely under a magnifying glass you can easily see the crimp mark on the primer pocket.

I am fairly sure that this brass is from the Winchester Service Grade 115mm rounds that I bought a lot of from a local gun shop that was selling it at a big discount.

I’ve been trying to attach a picture of the brass heads but haven’t had much luck,,, a question I have though is if there is an easy tool for removing the crimp corner.

Click image for larger version

Name:	6D93501A-45A7-4142-94F0-F6AA8AD53067.jpeg
Views:	36
Size:	555.3 KB
ID:	574484

If you look at the attached you can clearly see the primer picket crimp on the 3 WMA shell heads while the Aguila shell hs no crimp ring. If you remove the crimp “burr” the primers will load clean/freely w/o the crunch or sideways load. So I guess sorting this brass out is now a requirement that’ll have to be deprimed and the crimp removed.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by passx; 02-11-2020 at 01:32 PM. Reason: Attached photo
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-11-2020, 02:29 PM
jjfitch jjfitch is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 6,101
Most reloading manuals will also reveal this common stoppage in the reloading process. The crimp is easily removed by either the "swaging" or "reaming" process.

Many people will not pick up "crimped" empties due to the extra step to get these to run through our presses.

Also be aware that there is a lot of "Berdan" cases out there that will like wise stop the reloading process.

Because of these anomalies they are often left at ranges for others to "pick up"!

Smiles,
__________________
John, Retired LEO, CA POST Certified Firearms Instructor, NRA Endmt., NRA Instructor, NRA RSO, Blue Lives Matter
Gun Control: Acquire target, align sights, press trigger, only after you have identified your target and what is beyond it and made the decision to shoot!

Last edited by jjfitch; 02-11-2020 at 08:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-11-2020, 02:44 PM
flechero flechero is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,111
Those are crimped.... look at the secondary line/circle around the primer pocket.

Easy to remedy as mentioned above but is an extra step for each piece and requires another tool.
__________________
-flechero
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 02-11-2020, 03:42 PM
kimberguy2004 kimberguy2004 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,158
Any brass that does not have a manufacturers name and the caliber on the case head is military and has been crimped. Don't let that scare you off. Most of it is very good brass.
__________________
Socialism is a great idea until the achievers run out of money..
Bitter Gun Owner
Bitter Clinger
Armed Infidel
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-11-2020, 04:21 PM
DWARREN123 DWARREN123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Clarksville TN
Posts: 259
Military/military swaged. Remove swag or recycle the brass. Tools are available for removing the swag, from press/bench mounted to hand held.
I have always found military brass to be very good after removing the swag!
__________________
Shut up and Reload
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-11-2020, 04:49 PM
passx passx is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 1,268
Well I guess this was all a bit of a revelation for me as I’ve read a bunch of manuals on reloading and most talked about this a bit but had no pictures to help Understand what they were talking about and most of it was aimed at .45 brass not 9mm. Had to only apply to .45 right cause this is Merica,,,, don’t need no stinking foreign 9mm crap,,,,, can I get an amen?

And being that most of this brass is stuff I bought new (Winchester 115g service grade) I guess I thought that being that it was civilian bought that it wouldn’t be a crimped primer.

The good thing is that I learned something new in that it’ll be a crimped primer if no manufacturers name or caliber mark on the head stamp. Bad news is this is mostly stuff I bought new, so I just have to sort it, deprime it and ream the primer pocket, I have a bunch of it. Thx guy’s for your inputs.

Last edited by passx; 02-11-2020 at 04:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-11-2020, 05:03 PM
Oldfut808 Oldfut808 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Waipahu, HI
Posts: 1,981
9mm is plentiful.
I toss the military stuff.
I run a Dillon 1050 which has a built-in swager and I still get smashed primers with mil brass.
__________________
"What, Me Worry?"
NRA/Patron/Instructor/RSO
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-12-2020, 08:11 AM
passx passx is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 1,268
Oldfut, Yepper I have been collecting my brass for quite some time now with an eye on doing my own reloading for sometime so I have a lot of 9mm brass. My plan is to sort the military stuff out and just load the “normal” stuff out but keep the military stuff for a rainy day where I can sit down & deprime them and remove the crimp,,,, or maybe just throw the stuff away, we’ll see.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-12-2020, 09:04 AM
Tom Freeman's Avatar
Tom Freeman Tom Freeman is offline
More Cowbell...
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,438
Find a buddy that has a Dillon 1050 and ask him to process your brass for you. You can churn along at 1,500 cases an hour. Thats a lot faster than you can sort them.

And it isnt just foreign brass that has crimped in primers...
__________________
I am a rather brilliant surgeon, perhaps I can help you with that hump…
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-12-2020, 09:20 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Florence, Alabama, USA
Posts: 21,311
Strange, when I "process brass" on my 1050, it comes out loaded.

I haven't run into a crimped 9mm in a while, most of my brass is either range pickup after a match or LE range pickup from an agency employee who has permission to scavenge.

I still get the occasional sideways primer, and last month had a "ringer" which is a great aggravation.

What with sorting out .45 Small Primer and 9mm Stepped, the loading process is more complicated than it used to be.
I don't understand the elaborate prep work and multiple "touches" people are doing to bulk pistol ammo, that is stuff I only do to target rifle loads.
I dry tumble, load, gauge, and shoot. I learned I had to gauge ammo when using mixed brass and bulk bullets, but that is all I do extra.
Decap, wet tumble, rinse, and dry?
Hand prime?
Individual powder charge?
No, no, and no.

I googled around. WMA apparently stands for "Winchester Mississippi Ammunition." Or had just as well. Their newer plant supplementing or replacing their old location producing WCC headstamp ammo.

Last edited by Jim Watson; 02-12-2020 at 09:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-12-2020, 09:44 AM
flechero flechero is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
I don't understand the elaborate prep work and multiple "touches" people are doing to bulk pistol ammo....



Decap, wet tumble, rinse, and dry?
Hand prime?
Individual powder charge?
No, no, and no.
Different strokes...

Some do it for enjoyment/relaxation, some [wet tumble] for hygeine, some hand weigh for lack of a thrower, etc.
__________________
-flechero
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-12-2020, 12:36 PM
Oldfut808 Oldfut808 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Waipahu, HI
Posts: 1,981
To clarify, the mil brass that gave me a lot of trouble even after the 1050 swager was Winchester.
Headstamp WCC88 with the NATO + stamp.

On the other hand, I have to say that the WCC88 NATO brass is really nice quality brass if I took the time to chamfer the pockets and hand prime them. I would even use it for a personal defense load.
__________________
"What, Me Worry?"
NRA/Patron/Instructor/RSO
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-17-2020, 11:19 PM
pogo123 pogo123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by flechero View Post
Those are crimped.... look at the secondary line/circle around the primer pocket.

Easy to remedy as mentioned above but is an extra step for each piece and requires another tool.
My 'extra step' is to toss the WMA head-stamped brass into the brass recycle bin; currently bringing ~$1/# nowadays. With 50-60k of 9mm cases in my inventory, it ain't worth the time/effort to deswage or ream them out.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-18-2020, 07:55 AM
lhawkins lhawkins is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 803
If I get a hard push on with on press priming in 9mm, I just pull the case, look at it, and toss it if crimped into my recycling bucket.

9mm is so plentiful not worth the effort of removing the crimp IMHO.

I will remove crimp from rifle brass, but I do that as part of case prep/sorting.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-18-2020, 08:21 AM
jmorris jmorris is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,751
Quote:
don’t need no stinking foreign 9mm crap
Lol, if it were created here it would be called the .355.

As above, they can be cut or swaged, how many do you need to fix?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-18-2020, 07:19 PM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 7,832
Military crimped brass.....

Quote:
Many people will not pick up "crimped" empties due to the extra step to get these to run through our presses.
I have been using a Dillon 1050 since just after the first year they went on the market..… The majority of the ammo I load on my D1050 is 9mm. I never sort 9mm brass, since I have never had a problem. My D1050 swages the military crimped primer pockets, so I just keep on cranking out rounds.....

If a D1050 owner has issues with military crimped brass not swaging properly, there may be an issue with how the press is set up......
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-18-2020, 08:00 PM
jmorris jmorris is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,751
The OP is running a 650 but I agree with you.

If he has enough to be worth it for him to pay shipping to me and back to him, I’ll run the through my 9mm prep 1050. Would likely cost him less than any swaging tool and be a heck of a lot less work.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:28 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved