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  #1  
Old 05-04-2017, 06:40 AM
Slater Slater is offline
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101st Airborne to get first M17's

Looks like the 101st gets to break in the new Modular Handgun System:

http://soldiersystems.net/2017/05/03...-troops-first/
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  #2  
Old 05-04-2017, 07:07 AM
Sgt. Y Sgt. Y is offline
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If I was still in the Army I would be carrying my 1911 even if I had to buy my own. Nothing beats a three pound chunk of steel that can be used as brass knuckles as a last resort. Try cold cocking an enemy with toy gun sometime.
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  #3  
Old 05-04-2017, 08:21 AM
Culpepper Cattle Co. Culpepper Cattle Co. is offline
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Originally Posted by Sgt. Y View Post
If I was still in the Army I would be carrying my 1911 even if I had to buy my own. Nothing beats a three pound chunk of steel that can be used as brass knuckles as a last resort. Try cold cocking an enemy with toy gun sometime.
Good luck telling your CO what you'll be carrying...
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  #4  
Old 05-04-2017, 02:03 PM
DT Guy DT Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by Hapworth View Post
Good luck telling your CO what you'll be carrying...
"And I don't work Thursdays!"




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  #5  
Old 05-04-2017, 02:25 PM
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Tom Freeman Tom Freeman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt. Y View Post
If I was still in the Army I would be carrying my 1911 even if I had to buy my own. Nothing beats a three pound chunk of steel that can be used as brass knuckles as a last resort. Try cold cocking an enemy with toy gun sometime.
So cute when they are young.
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  #6  
Old 05-04-2017, 02:25 PM
Zip06 Zip06 is offline
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SGT Y - Try finding .45 230 grain ammo in the Supply System.
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  #7  
Old 05-04-2017, 02:31 PM
havanajim havanajim is offline
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And it's finished in such a nice shade of YPB too! But, hey, at least it has a safety! Were I still in, that would indeed make me feel better.
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  #8  
Old 05-04-2017, 02:54 PM
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I guess it's better to be old fashioned on some things
In 1970 I could have an M-14, but they frowned on it because the 16 was issue, when we went out we took an M-16, or sometimes a 12 gauge Winchester.
Rules is Rules, even when they don't always seem to be in the best interest of all, uniformity and conformity ?!
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  #9  
Old 05-04-2017, 02:58 PM
Kodadek Kodadek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Freeman View Post
So cute when they are young.
My favorite is when some kid tells me that we should have a SCAR or AUG like he uses when he plays Call of Duty or I get some freshly minted private's inexpert opinion on why we should carry X over Y.

It's a sidearm and that makes it a pretty minor piece of gear.
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  #10  
Old 05-04-2017, 03:09 PM
cjmj26 cjmj26 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt. Y View Post
If I was still in the Army I would be carrying my 1911 even if I had to buy my own. Nothing beats a three pound chunk of steel that can be used as brass knuckles as a last resort. Try cold cocking an enemy with toy gun sometime.
The idea is to not let them get that close...I'm issued an M9, and if I ever had to use it that means it's a VERY bad day (the track has went down, and our M4's are out of commission)...And like others have said, that would never happen--in a line unit, you use what you're issued and that's it...
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  #11  
Old 05-04-2017, 03:11 PM
EAGLE DUSTOFF EAGLE DUSTOFF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodadek View Post
It's a sidearm and that makes it a pretty minor piece of gear.
That depends. When I was in the field, I carried a 1911, including when I was with Eagle Dustoff.

In the event of being shot or forced down, it could be that all you have with you when you get out of that helicopter is what you are wearing.

In a case like that, having one's holstered pistol and spare magazines, if nothing else but a chicken plate and helmet, a sidearm is not a "minor" issue, at all.


Paul
RVN '70 - '71
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  #12  
Old 05-04-2017, 03:15 PM
EAGLE DUSTOFF EAGLE DUSTOFF is offline
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M17's

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Originally Posted by Zip06 View Post
SGT Y - Try finding .45 230 grain ammo in the Supply System.
The answer to that is to proceed to where the Green Beret are based and trade something for that .452 ammo.

The GB have everything.




Paul
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  #13  
Old 05-04-2017, 03:17 PM
EAGLE DUSTOFF EAGLE DUSTOFF is offline
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M17's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt. Y View Post
If I was still in the Army I would be carrying my 1911 even if I had to buy my own. Nothing beats a three pound chunk of steel that can be used as brass knuckles as a last resort. Try cold cocking an enemy with toy gun sometime.

I second that.



Paul

RVN '70 - '71

..
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  #14  
Old 05-04-2017, 03:21 PM
EAGLE DUSTOFF EAGLE DUSTOFF is offline
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M17's

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Originally Posted by Hapworth View Post
Good luck telling your CO what you'll be carrying...
Depends on the unit and if you are in the field or walking around in the rear where the lifers can harass you.


Plus, some units/unit commanders don't say anything if you are carrying an unauthorized weapon.

Plus, some units are rogue in nature to begin with.


It all depends...


Paul

RVN '70 - '71
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  #15  
Old 05-04-2017, 03:31 PM
Kodadek Kodadek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAGLE DUSTOFF View Post
That depends. When I was in the field, I carried a 1911, including when I was with Eagle Dustoff.

In the event of being shot or forced down, it could be that all you have with you when you get out of that helicopter is what you are wearing.

In a case like that, having one's holstered pistol and spare magazines, if nothing else but a chicken plate and helmet, a sidearm is not a "minor" issue, at all.


Paul
RVN '70 - '71
For the average grunt? It's a minor piece of gear, anecdotal evidence aside. Sure for convoy operations of flight crews, but to me it's one more piece of gear that they want me to bolt to my MOLLE that I neither want or need. Suggesting that it's highly important to the rank and file is just not true. I guess it'll look really cool for some Major in a Serpa mounted on his chest. Handguns suck, handgun rounds suck, and you can argue until your face is blue but the 1911 and the .45 ACP, especially ball ammo aren't magical or capable of dropping them all.

I'm still amazed at how much every person gives a flying leap through a rolling donut over a damn service handgun. New rifles, or maybe ditching our current body armor and helmets for lighter models that cause less strain on the body and allow for better freedom of movement and reduce the amount of weight we have to hump would be much more preferred to getting the "privilege" of rocking yet another piece of accountability.

Edit: Also, if you go to chapter 2, pages 139-140 http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksd...cs/default.htm you can read a report about the overall "effectiveness" or lack thereof of .45 ball ammo.
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Last edited by Kodadek; 05-04-2017 at 03:38 PM.
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  #16  
Old 05-04-2017, 03:39 PM
mohawkov1d mohawkov1d is offline
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+1 with Kodadek
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  #17  
Old 05-04-2017, 03:44 PM
Kodadek Kodadek is offline
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Hell, I'd settle for them ditching that (expletive deleted) cheese grater on the front of the M4 and giving us a lighter forend (m-lok, keymod, I don't care, I hate quad rails) to cut down on the weight of the carbine over a 1911 or any other service pistol.
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  #18  
Old 05-04-2017, 03:46 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAGLE DUSTOFF View Post
Depends on the unit and if you are in the field or walking around in the rear where the lifers can harass you.


Plus, some units/unit commanders don't say anything if you are carrying an unauthorized weapon.

Plus, some units are rogue in nature to begin with.


It all depends...


Paul

RVN '70 - '71

Not really.... it isn't the 70s any more.

While SOF units may have more options available, they're still using military owned weapons. There's essentially zero tolerance for privately owned firearms for duty use.

I'd be interested to see how the procurement goes, which barrel, slide and frame combinations line units wind up getting...
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  #19  
Old 05-04-2017, 03:46 PM
EAGLE DUSTOFF EAGLE DUSTOFF is offline
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M17's

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Originally Posted by Kodadek View Post
For the average grunt? It's a minor piece of gear, anecdotal evidence aside. Sure for convoy operations of flight crews, but to me it's one more piece of gear that they want me to bolt to my MOLLE that I neither want or need. Suggesting that it's highly important to the rank and file is just not true. I guess it'll look really cool for some Major in a Serpa mounted on his chest. Handguns suck, handgun rounds suck, and you can argue until your face is blue but the 1911 and the .45 ACP, especially ball ammo aren't magical or capable of dropping them all.

I'm still amazed at how much every person gives a flying leap through a rolling donut over a damn service handgun. New rifles, or maybe ditching our current body armor and helmets for lighter models that cause less strain on the body and allow for better freedom of movement and reduce the amount of weight we have to hump would be much more preferred to getting the "privilege" of rocking yet another piece of accountability.
I can only speak from personal experience. You have your war, I had mine.

You have real-life knowledge about this and know your preferences; for myself, someone who used to collect them (in Vietnam) as well as carry one, were I back in a similar situation, I'd skip something if necessary just to be able to keep wearing the pistol that makes the most amount of sense to me.

And in my war, when you pop a dink, the dink goes down.

Maybe if I was in your war, I'd feel differently about it. Maybe in the next, I'd do the same as I did in the 'Nam.


It's all individual preference.

For everyone else, it's speculation at the 1911 Forum, LOL.



Paul...........

RVN


...
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  #20  
Old 05-04-2017, 03:59 PM
dieseltech dieseltech is offline
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I've been issued both the M9 and a very pieced together M1911a1 when I was in the service.

I'll take that mis matched M1911 pieced together by a armourer before I'd take anything else especially 9mm.
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  #21  
Old 05-04-2017, 04:02 PM
dieseltech dieseltech is offline
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Originally Posted by Hapworth View Post
Good luck telling your CO what you'll be carrying...
If you're in the right MOS and you're SOC you could pick you're own pistol BUT ammo must still be FMJ.
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  #22  
Old 05-04-2017, 04:05 PM
dieseltech dieseltech is offline
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Originally Posted by Zip06 View Post
SGT Y - Try finding .45 230 grain ammo in the Supply System.
It can be found it's about as rare as finding a can of M995 for your M16.
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  #23  
Old 05-04-2017, 04:16 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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It's a sidearm in a large combined arms force context, it really doesn't matter in the grand picture of how things play out. If you are drawing ANY handgun in that instance you are having a seriously bad day and are probably screwed.

I think it's a very smart move, light (more weight available for the long gun) easy to issue (modular) and should work well enough. From the perspective of a NON-INDIVIDUAL basis it's by far the best option they could of went with.
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  #24  
Old 05-04-2017, 05:00 PM
Maroon Maroon is offline
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Originally Posted by Hapworth View Post
Good luck telling your CO what you'll be carrying...
Yeah, and if you could and you were lucky enough finding .45 in the inventory, would you still carry it when both weight and ammo capacity come into consideration?
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  #25  
Old 05-04-2017, 05:08 PM
Kodadek Kodadek is offline
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Originally Posted by Maroon View Post
Yeah, and if you could and you were lucky enough finding .45 in the inventory, would you still carry it when both weight and ammo capacity come into consideration?
But the spirit of John Moses Browning follows each bullets and smites thine enemies with the power of a thousand angels dancing on the head of the world's smallest pin! Who needs capacity or shot placement when you got that there .45 ACP which we all know blows off limbs and if shot into the center of the earth would make the whole durn planet explode! Plus .45 ACP out of a 1911 is double extra super secret squirrel powerful! You can't even kill a gnat with that sissy 9x19mm garbage and besides, the enemy will laugh at you as them 124 grain rounds bounce off of his chest.
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