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H&K SP5: Do I need any special forms to put a shoulder stock on it?

15K views 19 replies 15 participants last post by  guy sajer 
#1 ·
The HK Pro forums are not the most friendly for newbie questions, so I figured I'd ask this here:

If I were to buy an SP5 and wanted to put a collapsible A3 shoulder stock on it, do I need any ATF forms like this fabled "Form 1" I've seen mentioned in several HK reddit threads?
 
#3 · (Edited)
Can't answer all your questions, but I do know if it's sold as a "pistol" you can put a collapsible, foldable any brace on you want. You are forbidden to put a vertical foregrip on it though without getting it registered as an SBR.
My Saint "pistol" with collapsible "brace" but I could just as well put a folder or something similar as long as it's not a "stock." fwiw
Post a picture and you'll get more responses.
 

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#4 ·
A regular stock not sold or approved by BATF as a brace requires a Form 1. Makes no difference if it a collapsible brace or a foldable brace, as long as it's a brace.

It is a ridiculous requirement designed to generate tax money for the BATF. A brace can be just as shoulderable as a regular stock.

Tomato, tomoto.
 
#5 ·
Throw a brace on it, can't have a vertical fore grip with a brace attached. That's about all there is unless you want an actual SBR then you need to form 1 it
 
#7 ·
That would be MY suggestion as well. I wish I had just left the Sig brace on my PWS .300 BLK. Would have saved myself $200 (plus the cost to have the receiver engraved)...and now its gonna be a bitch to sell if I decide not to keep it.






CAN YOU LEGALLY REVERT AN SBR BACK TO "PISTOL" IF IT WAS ORIGINALLY SOLD AS A PISTOL??
 
#15 ·
No, once a rifle ALWAYS a rifle.

Not sure where you got that from, but from the information I've found it should read "FIRST a rifle, always a rifle"...because it appears to me if the item was originally manufactured and sold AS A PISTOL, even if converted to an SBR, it can be returned to a pistol.

Pistol--->SBR--->pistol is GTG,
Rifle--->SBR--->pistol is a no-no.

"Once a rifle, always a rifle" is very much true within California. The basis for that statement is Penal Code section 17170(c) which defines any weapon made from a rifle and having a barrel of less than 16 inches, or an overall length of less than 26 inches, as being a short barreled rifle. That's the reason that you can't go to a pistol from a rifle in California.

ATF's position is irrelevant with regard to state law.

I dont give a rat's ass about Kalifornistan state law, I live in Texas. You can buy guns out of the trunk of a car here. I just wanted to make sure the federal tax stamp doesn't forbid me from returning the firearm to it's original form factor.
 
#17 ·
Not sure where you got that from, but from the information I've found it should read "FIRST a rifle, always a rifle"...because it appears to me if the item was originally manufactured and sold AS A PISTOL, even if converted to an SBR, it can be returned to a pistol.

Pistol--->SBR--->pistol is GTG,
Rifle--->SBR--->pistol is a no-no.




I dont give a rat's ass about Kalifornistan state law, I live in Texas. You can buy guns out of the trunk of a car here. I just wanted to make sure the federal tax stamp doesn't forbid me from returning the firearm to it's original form factor.

You could remove your SBR from the registry. Your $200 tax would be refunded. Now if your SBR would return to a pistol or not I do not know. That would be a great question for your state atf office to answer for you. But you did go through all the trouble to get the stamp in the first place, would it actually be worthwhile to reverse course now?

There were no "braced" stocks when I filed a form 1 and assembled my SBR. I have no regrets, and would not consider removing it from the registry after all the steps taken to accomplish the approval. That said if I were interested in another short barrel rifle, I would take the "brace" route first before filing another form 1.
 
#6 ·
But yes. If it has a barrel shorter than 16 inches and you want to put a stock on it you have to complete and submit the Form 1 along with your payment of the $200 for the tax and wait for it all to be approved and you receive you tax stamp before you can put the stock on. That's if you get approved. If you don't they keep your $200. You also have some additional rules and regulations you have to follow if approved as it is now a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) and subject to those additional regulations.

Or, you could put a brace on it. Though be careful as the ATF considers that if your "intent" is to use it as a stock then it's an SBR. If you're intent is that it's a brace and you occasionally shoulder it, that's okay. Hey, I know a few ATF field agents think the rules are weird too. But, they have to enforce what they are given to enforce.
 
#9 ·
Welcome to the fun that is understanding ATF's on-again, off-again interpretations of NFA and GCA. I just read a CNN article today that stated that an AR lower receiver doesn't even technically meet the legal definition of a firearm receiver per GCA '68, and if the law was to be strictly interpreted no AR lower should have to require a serial number. As a matter of fact there was a guy in CA making ARs without a license and selling them to pretty much anyone, even felons, but in the end they didn't prosecute him because of the risk that an unfavorable court ruling would blow the door wide open to making all ARs legal without a serial number.

Arm braces are another huge headache for ATF, as they do not meet the legal definition of a rifle stock so therefore they're legal to attach to any firearm that meets the legal definition of a pistol. And there again ATF has a huge problem on its hands as a lot of these "pistols" are clearly not practical when held and fired with just one hand. The fact is that NFA and GCA are both obsolete pieces of legislation as they never kept pace with changes in firearms design, and both really need to repealed.
 
#14 ·
If you are spending the money for an HK MP5 then go all the way and pay the $200 tax and get a real HK folding stock. Would you buy a Wilson Combat or Nighthawk and add mim parts to it?
They also make a great suppressor host. Which will be another $200 plus cost of suppressor.
And don’t forget you favorite optic.
Mine is actually a Zenith Z-5P made in Turkey on HK tooling. I actually like the welds on the Zenith over the HK.

Going the full route takes a lot of time and money. Do you research including you state laws. If you want to pass it on son, daughter or loved one than you should also look into setting up a Trust. This process is not as simple as going to LGS and buying a 1911.

If it’s something you might not keep than I wouldn’t waste my time or money. I would just go out and buy something with a brace already on it like a Sig MPX-K or Copperhead.
 

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