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  #26  
Old 02-15-2020, 08:12 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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No biggie Joe!

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Originally Posted by M Yaworski View Post
They'll grab regular joes, like me, imprison them, make their families homeless and that will discourage others.
I won't make any heroic claims at this point because I don't know what will be happening.
When they grab you then we will know that it is time to put plan B into affect. And you will not have to make any heroic claims. As we will just write you off as a casualty. KIA and you will be a hero for all time.
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  #27  
Old 02-15-2020, 08:15 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Would you care to name one Country?

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Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
Good post.... however, we have people, members here, who talk the talk- and are, and have been, "dying slowly on their knees" for decades....
You do not have to give their real names. The forum name will do.
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  #28  
Old 02-15-2020, 08:18 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Any woman that will not stand with you in principle.

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Originally Posted by M Yaworski View Post
Bullcrap that cops won't be worried about keeping their jobs? Sure. Imagine the conversations at home

Honey, I quit today.
Why?
I didn't want arrest people who are breaking the new anti-gun laws.
Oh. How are we going to pay the mortgage? What about Johnny's asthma medicine? Bobby's tuition?
I heard that Wal-Mart's hiring security guards
Oh boy. $10 a hour. GTFO, I'll get more than that as a single mom.
Particularly when you are on the righteous side of things. Well let it suffice to say that you made a mistake with her in the first place.
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  #29  
Old 02-15-2020, 08:31 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Again Country, name one.

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Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
We have members here who are "stuck" in 2A restrictive States- because they're unwilling to forfeit a comfortable job or lifestyle. Why should we expect government employees to be any different- willing to sacrifice their livelihoods and families for YOUR guns...?

And before the lectures about personal sacrifice for duty even starts- I understand it far better than most here, I've lived it for 30 years.
Some may grouse about it and say that they are stuck. The majority of them are only saying this euphemistically I doubt that anyone here that has "a comfortable job or lifestyle". That they do not have the wherewithal to relocate. I do not think that we have a single member here that is "stuck" where they live.

After Monday I may find myself in a position whereby my gun rights may be curtailed to an extent. I have the wherewithal to live anywhere that I wish pretty much. But I am not going anywhere. My wife and I are staying right here. And we will be fighting these bitches all the way.

Last edited by USMM guy; 02-16-2020 at 07:41 PM.
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  #30  
Old 02-15-2020, 08:47 PM
STORM2 STORM2 is offline
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It appears some will not be digging foxholes. They will leave plenty of stuff behind we can use.
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  #31  
Old 02-15-2020, 08:49 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
Some may grouse about it and say that they are stuck. The majority of them are only saying this euphemistically I doubt that anyone here that has "a comfortable job or lifestyle". That they do not have the wherewithal to relocate. I do not think that we have a single member here that is "stuck" where they live.

After Monday I may find myself in a position whereby my gun rights may be curtailed to an extent. I have the wherewithal to live anywhere that I wish pretty much. But I am not going anywhere. My wife and I are staying right here. And we will be fitting these bitches all the way.
There's a reason I put "stuck" in quotes; it wasn't literal Anyone can pack up and move any time they wish.
There's still some hope for VA- its worth fighting for. CA, NY, NJ, CT, and such are long lost. The ballot box will not change things in such places, they're too far gone. If one won't move for liberty, at the cost of a little financial hardship, how can we expect them to risk everything, prosparity, prison, and life for it...?
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  #32  
Old 02-15-2020, 09:39 PM
shooter59 shooter59 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Yaworski View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter59 View Post
Your entire post is just silly.....
They said that Galileo was silly too.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s not a great comparison to use.

It’s simply not gonna happen the way you describe/envision...... but if you’re willing to roll over so quickly, that’s your personal decision. We all make them.
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  #33  
Old 02-15-2020, 10:23 PM
Col. Colt Col. Colt is offline
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Some things are best illustrated with Statistics.

There are well over 100 Million Gun Owners in the United States. There is somewhere (depending on whose numbers you believe) over 300 Million firearms in private hands in the USA. Of those, over 20 MILLION meet the definition of "Assault Weapon", each with an average of 6-8 magazines apiece. And there are BILLIONS of rounds of ammunition in american closets, on shelves and in gun safes.

What is the size of the force that would be available to take these arms, assuming a worst case, Bernie Sanders "Soviet Style" Communistic State happens this election?

First of all, if you add up every cop, sheriff's officer, FBI, regular Army and National Guard - you don't get much over 2 Million available "Enforcers". Many of those wearing these uniforms do understand the Oath they have taken "to preserve the Constitution of the United States from All Enemies, Foreign and Domestic" - and would not be very good enforcers. Some would quit, some would "look the other way" and some might turn their weapons on the oppressors themselves.

But let's assume you have 2 Million eager "Bernie Bro trained" enforcers. Let's say only 10 Percent of those 100 Million gun owners would resist. Let's see - an Army of Ten Million against an Army of Two Million - how would that play out?? And an awful lot of the guys on the resistance side are former Army or LE themselves - they know the drill,, and would be quite effective in making the Enforcers pay an outsized price. Cops have homes and families to worry about, too - I recall a time when some of the Drug Culture shot up several of our Officer's houses in Drive By Shootings - and it was pretty tense wearing a uniform with a police car parked outside for us and worrying about a random bullet coming through the house and killing someone you love. If this goes to blows, it will be messy - but it will be equally so for both sides, make no mistake. Which is why we MUST fight this out Politically, with Words, Logic and Ballots, Not Bullets. No Civil War was ever Civil, and we must avoid one if we can.

Support the right candidates - with help on the campaign, or money. Talk to your friend s and neighbors - if each of us got one more person to vote right next election the problem would be solved. Let's stop the other side from creating the Next Civil War - through education and persuasion.

It's time to educate you family members - and explain what is at stake. If we fail to win the war of words, and we stand by the Oath to the Constitution so many of us here have taken, we might have to resort to measures none of us want. CC

PS - Want to know what it could be like? Re-screen Mel Gibson's movie "The Patriot". Pay attention to the more grim, ugly parts, and make your own appropriate decisions and preparations. Let's not let that happen, friends. CC
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  #34  
Old 02-15-2020, 10:30 PM
LW McVay's Avatar
LW McVay LW McVay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Col. Colt View Post
Some things are best illustrated with Statistics.

There are well over 100 Million Gun Owners in the United States. There is somewhere (depending on whose numbers you believe) over 300 Million firearms in private hands in the USA. Of those, over 20 MILLION meet the definition of "Assault Weapon", each with an average of 6-8 magazines apiece. And there are BILLIONS of rounds of ammunition in american closets, on shelves and in gun safes.

What is the size of the force that would be available to take these arms, assuming a worst case, Bernie Sanders "Soviet Style" Communistic State happens this election?

First of all, if you add up every cop, sheriff's officer, FBI, regular Army and National Guard - you don't get much over 2 Million available "Enforcers". Many of those wearing these uniforms do understand the Oath they have taken "to preserve the Constitution of the United States from All Enemies, Foreign and Domestic" - and would not be very good enforcers. Some would quit, some would "look the other way" and some might turn their weapons on the oppressors themselves.

But let's assume you have 2 Million eager "Bernie Bro trained" enforcers. Let's say only 10 Percent of those 100 Million gun owners would resist. Let's see - an Army of Ten Million against an Army of Two Million - how would that play out?? And an awful lot of the guys on the resistance side are former Army or LE themselves - they know the drill,, and would be quite effective in making the Enforcers pay an outsized price. Cops have homes and families to worry about, too - I recall a time when some of the Drug Culture shot up several of our Officer's houses in Drive By Shootings - and it was pretty tense wearing a uniform with a police car parked outside for us and worrying about a random bullet coming through the house and killing someone you love. If this goes to blows, it will be messy - but it will be equally so for both sides, make no mistake. Which is why we MUST fight this out Politically, with Words, Logic and Ballots, Not Bullets. No Civil War was ever Civil, and we must avoid one if we can.

Support the right candidates - with help on the campaign, or money. Talk to your friend s and neighbors - if each of us got one more person to vote right next election the problem would be solved. Let's stop the other side from creating the Next Civil War - through education and persuasion.

It's time to educate you family members - and explain what is at stake. If we fail to win the war of words, and we stand by the Oath to the Constitution so many of us here have taken, we might have to resort to measures none of us want. CC
I see someone has their brain engaged.
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  #35  
Old 02-15-2020, 10:48 PM
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Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Col. Colt View Post
Some things are best illustrated with Statistics.

There are well over 100 Million Gun Owners in the United States. There is somewhere (depending on whose numbers you believe) over 300 Million firearms in private hands in the USA. Of those, over 20 MILLION meet the definition of "Assault Weapon", each with an average of 6-8 magazines apiece. And there are BILLIONS of rounds of ammunition in american closets, on shelves and in gun safes.

What is the size of the force that would be available to take these arms, assuming a worst case, Bernie Sanders "Soviet Style" Communistic State happens this election?

First of all, if you add up every cop, sheriff's officer, FBI, regular Army and National Guard - you don't get much over 2 Million available "Enforcers". Many of those wearing these uniforms do understand the Oath they have taken "to preserve the Constitution of the United States from All Enemies, Foreign and Domestic" - and would not be very good enforcers. Some would quit, some would "look the other way" and some might turn their weapons on the oppressors themselves.

But let's assume you have 2 Million eager "Bernie Bro trained" enforcers. Let's say only 10 Percent of those 100 Million gun owners would resist. Let's see - an Army of Ten Million against an Army of Two Million - how would that play out?? And an awful lot of the guys on the resistance side are former Army or LE themselves - they know the drill,, and would be quite effective in making the Enforcers pay an outsized price. Cops have homes and families to worry about, too - I recall a time when some of the Drug Culture shot up several of our Officer's houses in Drive By Shootings - and it was pretty tense wearing a uniform with a police car parked outside for us and worrying about a random bullet coming through the house and killing someone you love. If this goes to blows, it will be messy - but it will be equally so for both sides, make no mistake. Which is why we MUST fight this out Politically, with Words, Logic and Ballots, Not Bullets. No Civil War was ever Civil, and we must avoid one if we can.

Support the right candidates - with help on the campaign, or money. Talk to your friend s and neighbors - if each of us got one more person to vote right next election the problem would be solved. Let's stop the other side from creating the Next Civil War - through education and persuasion.

It's time to educate you family members - and explain what is at stake. If we fail to win the war of words, and we stand by the Oath to the Constitution so many of us here have taken, we might have to resort to measures none of us want. CC

PS - Want to know what it could be like? Re-screen Mel Gibson's movie "The Patriot". Pay attention to the more grim, ugly parts, and make your own appropriate decisions and preparations. Let's not let that happen, friends. CC
Excellent post! I would say to the highlighted part above - Civil War is not about being "civil", but is about war between the "civilian population"; always very ugly, and that is why it must be avoided if possible. Both sides of the political sides have that option, but if one crosses the line the other has no recourse left other than surrender or fight.
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  #36  
Old 02-15-2020, 11:05 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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I am really glad that things turned out the way that they did the other day.

I am referring to Richmond VA. We sent a message in a peaceful and orderly fashion. And they got it. The really bad bill SB 961 bears very little resemblance to what they originally started with. And it still has only the slimmest chance of passage. We will see Monday how this plays out. At least for now here in VA.

The other bunch of bogus bills that they came out with will have little real effect. And we will roll them back as time allows. One bill that these buffoons managed to have heard really makes me scratch my head. They want to give people the ability to put themselves on a prohibited list. I am sure that will drastically lower "gun violence" here in the commonwealth.
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  #37  
Old 02-16-2020, 07:25 AM
M-Peltier M-Peltier is online now
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Stop supporting the firearms industry? When we need them the most?..........sounds like a bad idea to me.
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  #38  
Old 02-16-2020, 07:48 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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So.....OP isn't buying any more guns unless Trump is re-elected???

Umm......okay.....whatever.
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  #39  
Old 02-16-2020, 09:00 AM
FNHipowerluv FNHipowerluv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
I am referring to Richmond VA. We sent a message in a peaceful and orderly fashion. And they got it. The really bad bill SB 961 bears very little resemblance to what they originally started with. And it still has only the slimmest chance of passage. We will see Monday how this plays out. At least for now here in VA.

The other bunch of bogus bills that they came out with will have little real effect. And we will roll them back as time allows. One bill that these buffoons managed to have heard really makes me scratch my head. They want to give people the ability to put themselves on a prohibited list. I am sure that will drastically lower "gun violence" here in the commonwealth.
A gutted anti-gun bill is still an anti-gun bill. The legislature realized after the rally, that they dumped the frog into water that was already boiling. They will now try to be incremental and turn up the heat slowly like CA did.
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  #40  
Old 02-16-2020, 09:04 AM
FNHipowerluv FNHipowerluv is offline
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Originally Posted by M-Peltier View Post
Stop supporting the firearms industry? When we need them the most?..........sounds like a bad idea to me.
That's an interesting point. Some could survive off .mil and LE contracts alone, others could not. FNH, Sig, and HK could probably live without us. Everyone else would probably go under. It seems that everytime Colt has gone bankrupt, it was during a period when they were giving little attention to the commercial market.
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  #41  
Old 02-16-2020, 09:35 AM
Old Grey Hare Old Grey Hare is offline
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To the OP and all the ones not fully committed to the Constitution:

Now is the time to not only buy more, but make sure it can't be found. Stored safely, away from you yet accessible. Untraceable to you. Storage unit in your name? Bad idea. Buried in a friend's backyard? It'd have to be some trustworthy friend. But you get the idea. You can't have all your stash in your house, that's the first place they'll go for!

It's time to party like it's 1775. That means hide your ****, and apply opsec - don't be talking about it. You never know at work who the socialists are. Actually sometimes it's rather obvious who they are, they're so good at self-identifying.

It also means plan and rehearse. What would you do if the door does explode at 2 am on a Tuesday? Comply, or defend yourself? Could you actually *do* it? Will the nerves let you? Will your heartbeat and adrenaline let you sight and trigger properly?

One such defense may be a loon. Two may be just crazy people. Thousands across the States will be Martyrs. I'd like to think that after enough bloodshed public opinion will turn against the banners.

THen again, I am wired very much unlike most people. My scenarios may be backwards from what most would think would happen.
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  #42  
Old 02-16-2020, 11:51 AM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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No argument there.

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Originally Posted by FNHipowerluv View Post
A gutted anti-gun bill is still an anti-gun bill. The legislature realized after the rally, that they dumped the frog into water that was already boiling. They will now try to be incremental and turn up the heat slowly like CA did.
Certainly a bad bill is still a bad bill. But the way that it affects people is something else entirely. Additionally a watered down bill means that much less ground you have to recover when you come back at these animals.

Additionally they can and will try to win this thing a piece at a time. Just like they will try to do it all across the country. But I am not as convinced that they will be able to accomplish this as some here are. I suppose that you think that the twenty plus thousand people that all showed up for lobby day in Richmond were all wasting their time.
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  #43  
Old 02-16-2020, 12:10 PM
FNHipowerluv FNHipowerluv is offline
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Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
Certainly a bad bill is still a bad bill. But the way that it affects people is something else entirely. Additionally a watered down bill means that much less ground you have to recover when you come back at these animals.

Additionally they can and will try to win this thing a piece at a time. Just like they will try to do it all across the country. But I am not as convinced that they will be able to accomplish this as some here are. I suppose that you think that the twenty plus thousand people that all showed up for lobby day in Richmond were all wasting their time.
No, I don't think that at all. They bought some additional time and showed everyone that we aren't the violent thugs the media paints us as being. All I'm saying is don't feel the need to back down yet.
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  #44  
Old 02-16-2020, 01:25 PM
M Yaworski M Yaworski is offline
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For those who believe that the army wouldn't do anything. Read about the Bonus Army, the Army sent about 1,000 troop up against 17,000 veterans. The army also deployed tanks. People talk about the "brotherhood of veterans" but that didn't seem to cut any ice back then.

Organized and trained troop will usually defeat a disorganized mob.
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  #45  
Old 02-16-2020, 01:33 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Nobody is backing down here in VA.

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Originally Posted by FNHipowerluv View Post
No, I don't think that at all. They bought some additional time and showed everyone that we aren't the violent thugs the media paints us as being. All I'm saying is don't feel the need to back down yet.
Come November we will be going after quite a few of these Nimrods.
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  #46  
Old 02-16-2020, 01:51 PM
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LW McVay LW McVay is offline
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Originally Posted by M Yaworski View Post
For those who believe that the army wouldn't do anything. Read about the Bonus Army, the Army sent about 1,000 troop up against 17,000 veterans. The army also deployed tanks. People talk about the "brotherhood of veterans" but that didn't seem to cut any ice back then.

Organized and trained troop will usually defeat a disorganized mob.
No one has said the Army wouldn't do anything. But not ALL of the Army is going to comply with unconstitutional laws. Nor are ALL cops going to comply. To believe otherwise is to buy into the Leftist (think Biden and Swallowswell tactics).
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  #47  
Old 02-16-2020, 01:54 PM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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I don't give much credence to the endless amount of chest-pounding on gun forum's as far as who is brave and who is not. It is just pointless talk if the bravery isn't paired with team work, consolidation of forces, and a plan to resist.

Bravery in and by itself isn't enough (assuming all those who tell us how brave they are - truly are brave). A Banzai attack against US Marines usually amounted to a "tale told by a fool, signifying nothing". A lot of dead-"Jap's" to use the colloquialism of the day. Brave yes, smart - no.

I'm more interested in what ones strategy is rather than how brave a person is. That is why I am happy to support the VA patriots, they have exhibited bravery so far, but beyond that, they have a collective means to resist throughout the state. They need to formulate further plans and strengthen the coalition against potential violent attempts by the evil-governor, but so far they have done more than any state has to date in preparation of resisting.
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  #48  
Old 02-16-2020, 02:17 PM
Old Grey Hare Old Grey Hare is offline
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I don't give much credence to the endless amount of chest-pounding on gun forum's as far as who is brave and who is not. It is just pointless talk if the bravery isn't paired with team work, consolidation of forces, and a plan to resist.
If we're thinking about it here, then it's already happening. But I doubt we'd hear about it here. This place isn't secure, none of the internet is without taking quite concrete steps to make it secure.

One thing's fer sure, I need to get out and meet my local fellow gun nuts and constitutionalists. I guess that is the last function of the alleged "gun show"
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  #49  
Old 02-16-2020, 02:23 PM
M Yaworski M Yaworski is offline
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Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post
No one has said the Army wouldn't do anything. But not ALL of the Army is going to comply with unconstitutional laws. Nor are ALL cops going to comply. To believe otherwise is to buy into the Leftist (think Biden and Swallowswell tactics).
What if the constitution is changed?
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  #50  
Old 02-16-2020, 02:24 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Col. Colt View Post
Some things are best illustrated with Statistics.

There are well over 100 Million Gun Owners in the United States. There is somewhere (depending on whose numbers you believe) over 300 Million firearms in private hands in the USA. Of those, over 20 MILLION meet the definition of "Assault Weapon", each with an average of 6-8 magazines apiece. And there are BILLIONS of rounds of ammunition in american closets, on shelves and in gun safes.

What is the size of the force that would be available to take these arms, assuming a worst case, Bernie Sanders "Soviet Style" Communistic State happens this election?

First of all, if you add up every cop, sheriff's officer, FBI, regular Army and National Guard - you don't get much over 2 Million available "Enforcers". Many of those wearing these uniforms do understand the Oath they have taken "to preserve the Constitution of the United States from All Enemies, Foreign and Domestic" - and would not be very good enforcers. Some would quit, some would "look the other way" and some might turn their weapons on the oppressors themselves.

But let's assume you have 2 Million eager "Bernie Bro trained" enforcers. Let's say only 10 Percent of those 100 Million gun owners would resist. Let's see - an Army of Ten Million against an Army of Two Million - how would that play out?? And an awful lot of the guys on the resistance side are former Army or LE themselves - they know the drill,, and would be quite effective in making the Enforcers pay an outsized price. Cops have homes and families to worry about, too - I recall a time when some of the Drug Culture shot up several of our Officer's houses in Drive By Shootings - and it was pretty tense wearing a uniform with a police car parked outside for us and worrying about a random bullet coming through the house and killing someone you love. If this goes to blows, it will be messy - but it will be equally so for both sides, make no mistake. Which is why we MUST fight this out Politically, with Words, Logic and Ballots, Not Bullets. No Civil War was ever Civil, and we must avoid one if we can.

Support the right candidates - with help on the campaign, or money. Talk to your friend s and neighbors - if each of us got one more person to vote right next election the problem would be solved. Let's stop the other side from creating the Next Civil War - through education and persuasion.

It's time to educate you family members - and explain what is at stake. If we fail to win the war of words, and we stand by the Oath to the Constitution so many of us here have taken, we might have to resort to measures none of us want. CC

PS - Want to know what it could be like? Re-screen Mel Gibson's movie "The Patriot". Pay attention to the more grim, ugly parts, and make your own appropriate decisions and preparations. Let's not let that happen, friends. CC
You've produced some good, and pretty accurate statistics and numbers. Unfortunately, the analysis is significantly under developed and falls short. When you use terms like "many" or "an awful lot" in the analysis, its failed, its raw chicken. The analysis needs to be quantifiable just as the stats do. You have the liberty to make assumptions, but they must be support in a logical manner.

Of those 100m gun "owners", how many are seriously pro 2A? How many 80 year old widows with their late husbands old single shot 12ga rusting in the corner are counted as "gun owners"? How many casual or passively interested "gun owners are there? How many consistantly vote for pro 2A candidates? How many are physically able to resist? Of those 20m "assault weapons", how many are owned by passive, casual owners, how many are owned by single individuals? What %s are required for an insurgency to succeed? How many guerrillas, auxiliaries, and undergrounds? What kind of leadership structure is necessary for transition? Historically, what % of a population activity participants in and insurrection?

I'll wager anything I own that it would be very nearly impossible to get even 1% of those "gun owners" together, in a single place, for a peaceful pro 2A demonstration- even with 6 months lead time... and there's no risk, no real sacrifice involved in participating in such an event.

There a great deal more than just the raw numbers...
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