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  #26  
Old 12-14-2019, 11:17 AM
yeti yeti is offline
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The way I read Nitro's post is that post firing crud needs to be cleaned after powder residue gets in the factory storage/shipping lube. You seemed to hone in on the "grease" comment. I know what he meant...factory storage/shipping lube. Sticky heavy viscosity oil. No not really grease, but that stuff lives in the netherworld between grease & oil.
Uninformed new owner is cursing his brand new POS gun for jamming because... it hasn't been cleaned at all. I've seen it too.

Unpacking an Armscor/RIA? Unreal.
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  #27  
Old 12-14-2019, 05:15 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Originally Posted by yeti View Post
The way I read Nitro's post is that post firing crud needs to be cleaned after powder residue gets in the factory storage/shipping lube. You seemed to hone in on the "grease" comment. I know what he meant...factory storage/shipping lube. Sticky heavy viscosity oil. No not really grease, but that stuff lives in the netherworld between grease & oil.
Uninformed new owner is cursing his brand new POS gun for jamming because... it hasn't been cleaned at all. I've seen it too.

Unpacking an Armscor/RIA? Unreal.
Sticky heavy oil??? On a new gun?? Not in my experience either.

Good Lord.....what are you guys buying??? Cause it's not a Smith, a Ruger, a Brown, a Colt, a Springfield, a Wesson, a Walther, an HK,a Benelli, a Guerrini, a Browning, any AR, a SIG, a Kimber, a Henry, a Winchester, a CZ, a Wilson, a Nighthawk, a Sauer, an FN....

What guns are you guys buying that are covered in a sticky heavy oil??? Cause it ain't any that I've ever unpacked nor is it any of those brands listed.
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  #28  
Old 12-15-2019, 05:04 AM
ballman6711 ballman6711 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
Sticky heavy oil??? On a new gun?? Not in my experience either.

Good Lord.....what are you guys buying??? Cause it's not a Smith, a Ruger, a Brown, a Colt, a Springfield, a Wesson, a Walther, an HK,a Benelli, a Guerrini, a Browning, any AR, a SIG, a Kimber, a Henry, a Winchester, a CZ, a Wilson, a Nighthawk, a Sauer, an FN....

What guns are you guys buying that are covered in a sticky heavy oil??? Cause it ain't any that I've ever unpacked nor is it any of those brands listed.
I bought a Kimber a few years ago, and couldn't believe how filthy it was when I field stripped it. And yes, it was a new gun.

I was pretty p.o.'d and called them to ask how a new gun left the factory that dirty. The response was they got a lot of calls about the guns having not been proof fired, due to being too clean, so they quit cleaning them after firing and before shipping. BS excuse in my opinion, more likely cost cutting measures.

And the gun did have a heavy oil of some type, surely to prevent rust. But it was way beyond dirty!

chris
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  #29  
Old 12-15-2019, 10:12 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Within the last two years, Two Sigs, A Henry and a Desert Eagle. ALL OF THEM had slightly gritty residue mixed in with a heavy “packing oil” (since there is a problem with using “grease” to describe it). The Henry’s action was pretty stiff and I was amazed at the particulate matter that was removed from the innards when it was disassembled. Smooth as silk with a nice coating of Browning oil afterwards. Ever disassemble a Desert Eagle? Didn’t think so......that’s grease dammit! Sigs were pretty clean, but still, there was residue that needed to be removed.
Otto, is it your practice to strip down and clean all weapons that make it to your shop? Nope on that one either? Then how would you know what the innards are like? Choice is yours, but there is a sufficient amount of crap and “packing” oil that should be cleaned before firing a new weapon. I wonder why the manufacturer recommends doing this......just to piss everyone off?
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  #30  
Old 12-15-2019, 10:39 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Originally Posted by Nitro.45 View Post
Within the last two years, Two Sigs, A Henry and a Desert Eagle. ALL OF THEM had slightly gritty residue mixed in with a heavy “packing oil” (since there is a problem with using “grease” to describe it). The Henry’s action was pretty stiff and I was amazed at the particulate matter that was removed from the innards when it was disassembled. Smooth as silk with a nice coating of Browning oil afterwards. Ever disassemble a Desert Eagle? Didn’t think so......that’s grease dammit! Sigs were pretty clean, but still, there was residue that needed to be removed.
Otto, is it your practice to strip down and clean all weapons that make it to your shop? Nope on that one either? Then how would you know what the innards are like? Choice is yours, but there is a sufficient amount of crap and “packing” oil that should be cleaned before firing a new weapon. I wonder why the manufacturer recommends doing this......just to piss everyone off?
OCD is an affliction for sure. Anal is as anal does. One man's clean is another man's filthy. You and I are clearly on opposite sides of the spectrum. I bought more guns last week than you bought last year. None of em needed cleaning prior to firing.

Happy scrubbing.
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  #31  
Old 12-15-2019, 03:10 PM
DWARREN123 DWARREN123 is offline
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The coating on RIA firearms is a shipping/anti rust item.
Meant to be cleaned before using.
They ship them from the Philippines so they may need it depending on shipping method.
Always inspect/clean and lube before shooting the first time, new or old.
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  #32  
Old 12-16-2019, 07:48 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
OCD is an affliction for sure. Anal is as anal does. One man's clean is another man's filthy. You and I are clearly on opposite sides of the spectrum. I bought more guns last week than you bought last year. None of em needed cleaning prior to firing.

Happy scrubbing.
Choice is your pal and I really don’t care how many guns you bought for your store last week, they are not yours personally and you are not in the business of cleaning them. I did a bit of reading on the subject, and you sir, are in the vast minority with your mindset. Several smiths go so far as to say that 85% of weapons brought to them for function issues are directly related to not removing the anti corrosion material and cutting residue. Granted, they are filthy when they get them, but I have pulled out stuff that I never see when cleaning a previously maintained gun. Do what you want. You are probably also one of those guys that just throws his guns into the safe when done and cleans them once in a blue moon. The process is far from OCD.
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  #33  
Old 12-16-2019, 11:05 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Originally Posted by Nitro.45 View Post
Choice is your pal and I really don’t care how many guns you bought for your store last week, they are not yours personally and you are not in the business of cleaning them. I did a bit of reading on the subject, and you sir, are in the vast minority with your mindset. Several smiths go so far as to say that 85% of weapons brought to them for function issues are directly related to not removing the anti corrosion material and cutting residue. Granted, they are filthy when they get them, but I have pulled out stuff that I never see when cleaning a previously maintained gun. Do what you want. You are probably also one of those guys that just throws his guns into the safe when done and cleans them once in a blue moon. The process is far from OCD.
Nope. You would be wrong. Again. I personally bought 10 guns last week. Not for the store. For me. And not 1 of them needed anything more than to lube em, load em and shoot em.

You can scrub your guns till the cows come home. They're yours. But you do so not because it's necessary. You do it because you're OCD. Something irrational within you compels you to clean a new gun. It's okay. Lots of folks live with the condition and lead relatively normal.lives. You'll be fine. Really.

And yes.....my Baer TRS runs just fine after no cleaning for the last 8,000 rounds. I rarely clean guns. Almost never. Run a bore snake through them and wipe em down, that's all that's needed. Anything else is simply a waste of my time.

Shoot more clean less. That's why we have smokeless powder.
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  #34  
Old 12-16-2019, 11:26 AM
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Rifter Rifter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
You used the words "factory grease", ergo the implication "packed in grease".

No one uses grease any more. No one. "Crud, Glop, crap"?......Never seen it.....not in unboxing and inspecting literally thousands of guns.

OTOH.....you may be right as we don't carry HiPoint, Taurus or any other bargain basement POS guns.



I worked in a shop for a number of years and unpacked guns too. They weren't packed in cosmolene or the like as you imply was said, but they sure didn't come packed in simple oil either. It was invariably a thick, tacky, type of oil based product probably full of anti-rust and anti-corrosion inhibitors. It was a pain in the ass to clean off, which had to be done for any of the guns going on display. The stuff had a godawful stink to it too, and even after a thorough scrubbing with soap and hot water, that smell stayed on the skin for a couple days. Saw it on Colt, Ruger, S&W, Remington, etc.
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  #35  
Old 12-16-2019, 12:07 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Originally Posted by Rifter View Post
I worked in a shop for a number of years and unpacked guns too. They weren't packed in cosmolene or the like as you imply was said, but they sure didn't come packed in simple oil either. It was invariably a thick, tacky, type of oil based product probably full of anti-rust and anti-corrosion inhibitors. It was a pain in the ass to clean off, which had to be done for any of the guns going on display. The stuff had a godawful stink to it too, and even after a thorough scrubbing with soap and hot water, that smell stayed on the skin for a couple days. Saw it on Colt, Ruger, S&W, Remington, etc.
It's not any longer. Just a light oil these days.
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  #36  
Old 12-16-2019, 01:00 PM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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8000 rounds without cleaning your gun?
You have either made that up, or simply place no value on a nice weapon. I would take a bit more pride in the ownership of a Baer.
I suppose you just "add oil" to your car too. No sense in changing it, it'll be new after you add 5 quarts!!
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  #37  
Old 12-16-2019, 01:48 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Originally Posted by Nitro.45 View Post
8000 rounds without cleaning your gun?
You have either made that up, or simply place no value on a nice weapon. I would take a bit more pride in the ownership of a Baer.
I suppose you just "add oil" to your car too. No sense in changing it, it'll be new after you add 5 quarts!!
I know!!! Bugs the crap outta you doesn't it!!!
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  #38  
Old 12-16-2019, 03:40 PM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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It does, and I will absolutely admit that it is a bad character flaw.
My father used to ask me the question "You don't suffer fools gladly do you?"
Not sure why, but it drives me crazy when I see people doing stupid stuff!
Nothing personal with my posts...just my jerk way of getting my opinion across!
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  #39  
Old 01-09-2020, 08:52 PM
John Boy John Boy is offline
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To your credit, neither of you has gone “full Reddit” during your debate.


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  #40  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:05 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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Ten personal gun purchases in a week!

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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
Nope. You would be wrong. Again. I personally bought 10 guns last week. Not for the store. For me. And not 1 of them needed anything more than to lube em, load em and shoot em.

You can scrub your guns till the cows come home. They're yours. But you do so not because it's necessary. You do it because you're OCD. Something irrational within you compels you to clean a new gun. It's okay. Lots of folks live with the condition and lead relatively normal.lives. You'll be fine. Really.

And yes.....my Baer TRS runs just fine after no cleaning for the last 8,000 rounds. I rarely clean guns. Almost never. Run a bore snake through them and wipe em down, that's all that's needed. Anything else is simply a waste of my time.

Shoot more clean less. That's why we have smokeless powder.
Pretty impressive Otto!
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  #41  
Old 01-09-2020, 10:48 PM
Capt. Methane Capt. Methane is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
Caked on crud??? On a new gun??? I call BS......unless it's some POS Eastern Bloc war relic.

I unpack more new guns in a week than most folks will ever see in a lifetime. Been doing so for the last 5 years. In those 5 years, I have never....not once.....have I seen a gun packed in grease. It simply doesn't happen. It may have in the distant past.....but it doesn't happen today. 100% of every new gun I've unpacked....and it's literally thousands of every brand imaginable....is coated with a light oil.
It wouldn't take much of that light oil to stick enough of a bit of cardboard or other packing material in a barrel to ruin it with the first shot and perhaps you should open up the action of a new SP-101 sometime if you want to see what the lesser manufacturers leave behind by skipping the steps of flushing and air blasting components after machining operations...
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  #42  
Old 01-10-2020, 07:13 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Pretty impressive Otto!
What’s that?? The fact that he owns a bore snake??
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  #43  
Old 01-10-2020, 09:58 AM
flechero flechero is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
One man's clean is another man's filthy.....

Happy scrubbing.
One person's tolerance for filth doesn't negate anyone else's. I'm a happy scrubber as well.

It's certainly getting better but most guns I have bought in the recent past have been dirty and sticky. The only two exceptions were a DW which was pretty clean but so soaked in oil that I literally poured the oil out of the bag it was shipped in! The other was a Seekins, and it was clean and oiled correctly.
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  #44  
Old 01-10-2020, 10:58 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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LMAO!!!.. They're your guns guys. You can clean them as often as it takes to make you happy. LOL!!!!

FYI......I bought 25,000 CCI large pistol primers yesterday. November is coming. Better stock up.
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  #45  
Old 01-10-2020, 11:25 AM
flechero flechero is offline
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November is coming. Better stock up.
Amen to that!!
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  #46  
Old 01-10-2020, 01:35 PM
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From the OP: "My thoughts are that the first time I tried these loads my gun failed to cycle due to being dirty and dry, as in somewhere around 600 rounds without cleaning and only a drop or two of oil on the slide. I was testing at the time to see how many rounds I could shoot before the gun failed to function. This time around the gun only had about 50 rds through it and was oiled properly. Also of note, the springs are the factory rate of 18lbs recoil and 23lbs main spring."

Also a competitor and reloader for over 40 years.....

Conventional wisdom dictates that every firearm no matter how many rounds or how much time has elapsed, requires a little lube before a range session. This is cheap insurance against a malfunction due to a dry gun. Lubrication migrates and evaporates over time and shooting.

I carry a small container of my favorite lubricating oil (Syn. ATF) in each range bag. as soon as a firearm comes out it gets a minimum of 6 drops of oil.
1 to each side of the slide fore and aft 4 total!
1 to the bushing
1 to the hammer

Once a week my carry guns get the same treatment.

All the best in 2020,
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  #47  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:21 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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I can not ever remember running across a quality made gun.

That given a few drops of lube, in my case I use three in one pretty often. That would not run dirty or otherwise. I clean my guns once in a while. But it is not a big issue for me. When I got my new Baer in May it said to let it run for 500 rounds before cleaning. I let it run to over two thousand rounds adding a drop or two of oil here and there to the rails. Zero stoppages with a bunch of different ammo.

Finally curiosity got the best of me and I cleaned it. It was not even that dirty.
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  #48  
Old 01-11-2020, 10:20 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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A Baer comes with the self cleaning option like my oven. Most do not!
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  #49  
Old 01-19-2020, 08:18 PM
DesertRat9 DesertRat9 is offline
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I've loaded 1000's of 45 ACP0 with CCI primers. I can't recall ever having a primer problem. I know people who won't touch 'em, but that isn't my experience.
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  #50  
Old 01-20-2020, 06:28 AM
glider glider is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
LMAO!!!.. They're your guns guys. You can clean them as often as it takes to make you happy. LOL!!!!

FYI......I bought 25,000 CCI large pistol primers yesterday. November is coming. Better stock up.
I do what I do, don't want to argue about it. I am curious though, how is it that you buy so many guns , primers, etc. if not for a store. It sounds like you buy more guns than a small store would. I want to know the rest of the story.
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