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TR Trigger Job

144K views 169 replies 64 participants last post by  Noklue3 
#1 ·
I recently acquired a set of Chuck Warner's TR Sear Jig. TR being true radius. This is a concept for stoning the sear to the radius it pivots on and produces the only true neutral sear. When the sear is prepped as per the original specs it is actually slightly negative, and can also be angled to be positive. Much discussion has been done over this, and the radius idea has been discussed. Chuck Warner did something about it, and is producing center-less ground O-1 discs of the exact size, and hole needed to sandwich a sear, and stone it to match the radius.

The hammer prep is important as well and a huge variety of trigger pull feels and weights can be had. I started with a Nowlin hammer with .020"hooks, leveled in the manual way of stoning with a feeler gauge on the flat. The face of the hooks was also stoned and the tips given a slight radius. You can think of it as dulling the tips slightly.

The first thing I do with a new sear is lay it on it's side's on 1000 grit paper on a flat surface and do a figure 8, 4 or 5 times to remove any burrs and smooth the surface.



Here's the fixture discs and sear and sear pin.



I assembled them as per the directions that come with them. You use the sear pin to hold the sear between the discs and clamp in a smooth faced vise. The sear pin head isn't quite flush with the discs so when clamped it is held securely and can't turn when stoning.



A great hint in the directions is to draw a line with a felt tip pen across the discs and sear nose. This will give an indication of your progress when stoning down to the discs.



I had about a .001" or so of sear to profile so started with a fine India stone, and went just till I could see by the ink I was close.



A few strokes later and you can see the progress.



At this point I switched to the white ceramic stone to polish.



You will also stone/polish the discs, but is of very little consequence for future use. I think you could probably do 100 sears without appreciable wear.



You will notice a slight irregular escape edge until you stone a relief angle. This can be just a few strokes to straighten the edge, or 30% or more to shorten the pull.



At this point I assembled the sear with the nose inked, the hammer, and dry fired a few times to check contact.



Further stoning of the hooks can increase equal contact, but this only took about 10-15 minutes, and the pull is very nice and clean. More in depth tuning can be done, but this is a very impressive pull for the first time through. Smooth, and clean!

LOG
 
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#5 ·
Log,
Thanks for the demo. You did a better job than I could. This tool and the sears are the culmination of a rather lengthy thread by some of the best minds in the business. Here..
http://www.1911pro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=277

This thread explains in detail the birth of this tool...lol.
Its about the best thread I have ever had the pleasure of reading on sears and hammers...

Incidently, My website will be back up tonight or tomorrow.


CW
 
#6 ·
Chuck put a TR on my BHP sear and the result was a huge improvement. Really transformed the pistol from somewhat of a disappointment into one of my favorite shooters.

Question for you Log, how high is you're shim stack when cutting the relief angle?
 
#7 ·
Should of mentioned that, I skewed them to show, .040", two .020's. the point of relief, is to lessen engagement, and too much angle allows most sears to rotate in more.

LOG
 
#12 ·
A couple weeks ago I used my newly acquired TR-Jig on the original sear of my DW C-Bob, the trigger measured a decent 3.5 # before. Fairly good trigger for a factory job. After radiusing the sear, cutting the secondary and polishing the hammer hooks. Reassembled the gun and the pull went to 2.25#! I can't say it is a smooth trigger it just gets to 2.25 lb and breaks. I re-tensioned the sear spring to bump it closer to 3#. This is the best trigger I've done and it was so simple. Glass rod good!

Note: the sear in my C-Bob was marginal in length as it just barely took the radius across the face. Some other or new sears will most likely be longer like the one Log did above. I was lucky being that the sear didn't require hardly any metal to be removed and the TS fit was not affected.

Chuck has stated somewhere that he has found a few sear manufacturers that have a more suitable length for this mod than others. Some are too short to work with this jig.

_________________
 
#13 ·
Chuck & Log:

I see Log cut his sear relief after he stoned the radius in the jig. Does this remove some of the radius when the relief is cut? Just trying to wrap my head around the whole process.

Thanks for the outstanding tutorial!

Ben H
 
#15 ·
Remember the relief angle establishes how much engagement you want and a straight escape edge. On this example I only took a few strokes to straighten the edge and try it. The relief cut is not a contact surface and can does not need to be polished, but can be.

I suppose when using the fixture you could over cut with the fine stone, before going to the ultra fine ceramic, but would take some doing.

LOG
 
#19 ·
releif cut

I think I remember someones post on this forum not too long ago that mentioned in order to get a 45 degree relief cut you would need a 1/8 shim. I tried it and it worked rather well. You still get the relief but the nose does not go into the hooks. If there is any creep I raised the sear a little in the jig and took a little more off the primary surface.
 
#21 ·
I have one question on stoning the hammer hooks. Is there a trick to stoning one side. In Log mans picture it looks like a little more could be taken off the left side in order to have a little more engagement on the right side. In the past I have just put a little more pressure on the side of the sear that needed to be lowered. With this new jig you would have to do the hammer hook that was high. How do you do just one hammer hook by hand? It is so small, I have done both hooks with a hammer file but you are dragging across both sides at once, with one you can barely get started.
 
#23 ·
I have been using the Brown jig forever, it seems. This is an issue I have wondered about for some time as I have set mine up to do a slightly negative cut. Looks like Chuck has come up with a well thought out solution. I would like to give it a try. My question is, after looking on his sight for ordering information, I can't find any. Do you have to call it in? Hate to pull him away from the shop to answer the phone.

Rick
 
#26 ·
I appreciate the support guys. I will have the cc thing done soon, but with working on parts full time, I have delayed it a little in order to add the new stuff at the same time as card capability.
If the snail mail is too slow, Dave Berryhill has them in stock and does take cards.
I have been working on the ignition sets, and have a little more testing to do.

I have switched from a vendor for my sears to attempting them in house.

I hope to use the Berryhill and Harrison hammers in the complete sets.

As an update, with a traditional sear primary, I have always found a pin center to sear nose length to be unsatisfactory below .403 for me.
Print spec calls out .4045 and the Jig is designed for that start length or close.
However, I have had a lot of inquiries about shorter sears, and have tested
the TR down to.400.....zero hammer follow, even at lighter pulls.
I am working with a couple fellow gunsmiths to see if its a viable option to make the Jigs in different sizes, or offer a set to accommodate a larger variety of sizes.
The Jig itself is rather foolproof, but I am VERY hesitant to get far off of print spec....time will tell.

The ignition sets will consist of a hammer, sear, disco,strut and strut cap.
There will be two styles of hammers, and sets tailored for light 9mm down to .22 conversions and sets for standard 9mm and above.
The sets for light 9mm down to .22 will come with a proprietary firing pin stop as well.

The BHP is covered as well, and I am finalizing the details.

The hammer Jig is probably overkill, but works like a champ. It will be available as quick as I can get the other stuff streamlined.
The offshoots from the sear have been pretty cool and fastmoving. but nothings gonna appear until I'm sure that
a) Its gotta be functionally better or easier than whats already available
b) I have to be able to deliver it consistantly and timely
c) I hit the lotta for all the bucks going into this....
d)...and they have to be cool... :biglaugh:

I appreciate all the support in this, and I will update this with the new stuff as soon as I have all of it ready...no sooner. :)

CW
 
#27 ·
Thanks for the update Chuck. The TR Sear Jig is great. I've only done 2 guns with it, both yielded 2lb 4oz Trigger jobs, that were some of the best I ever felt.

The one I did on a full Extreme Engineering Light Speed kit was REALLY, really good.

The other was on a EE sear paired with a Keonig hammer, it was good, but not as good as the other. (I have doubts about who cut the hammer the first time, which may be part of the issue.)
 
#28 ·
a few days back my TR sear jig was arrived (thanks mr Warner for the effort to send them to Europe).

I prepped 3 sears, 2 cheap MIM sears and 1 STI S7. without adjusting the the searspring the triggerpull dropped .55 lbs to 2.2 lbs.

I also tried to do something different, instead of polishing with a fine stone I took the searjig and clamped it between my fingers and used some 1500 grid emery cloth on a glass plate to polish. my finest stone is about 1000 or 1200 grid. worked great.

this sear jig is a pleasure to work with!

gr T
 
#29 ·
Raising this from the depths to say thanks to Chuck for answering all my questions over the phone and for this outstanding Jig.

Thanks also goes out to Log Man. His expertise caused me to research more of his posts ...where I found this.

As such, I now have a TR-Jig enroute, along with a Cylinder & Slide Sear and Disconnector (I hope I chose wisely on those). This will all be fitted to a 10-8 hammer along with a 10-8 Thumb Saftey on my TRP as soon as they become available.

With Logman's pictures and Chucks outstanding Jig...I'm confident that I will get the Sear fit properly. The Thumb Safety fitting I am still researching, but will make sure that I am as confident as I am about the Sear fitting before I tackle everything together.
 
#31 · (Edited)
EGW as well, and the one in the pics is a Nowlin. As well as the sears John Harrison sells and Dave Berryhill's also are all long enough.

LOG
 
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