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Ed Brown vs Wilson Combat

32K views 41 replies 28 participants last post by  scw2 
#1 ·
Fixing to make a major purchase of an Ed Brown Classic Custom or a Wilson Combat Super Grade.

Any opinions?
 
#2 ·
Both are fine pistols. Ed Brown makes the same quality pistol from top to bottom. The only differences are features and finish. Wilson claims different grades from excellent to something more than excellent. The Super Grade will cost you more than the Ed Brown. Wilson will also do more custom work. Ed Brown is more limited in its offerings. Some people think the Super Grade is worth the up charge. Others don't. It's a good problem to have. If you can afford either, then I say get the one that's really going to satisfy your itch. Also, the search function is your friend. Lots of posts such are yours.
 
#5 ·
I've got both (WC Tac Supergrade and an EB Executive Elite) so I thought I'd chime in. First off, both are excellent pistols and will serve you extremely well. Really, the better comparison would be a Wilson Classic or any of the non-Supergrade line versus and EB Classic. In this comparison, I think the quality of parts and fitting is equal. My EB EE is extremely accurate, one of the most accurate that I personally own. It's super reliable and the way that EB finishes their stainless guns is better that any other mfg from an ascetics standpoint.
The Supergrade is fit better than any Wilson, Nighthawk, Les Baer, or Ed Brown that I've ever had and it should be for that price point. I would be disappointed if it wasn't....
So, I'd recommend buying either. If you want to spend the extra money on the SG, you won't regret it. If the prices were exactly the same, I'd without a doubt take the SG. But, that's not the case so you need to decide if the extra money for the SG would be worth it to you. Is the cost of the SG worth $1000 more? That's the million dollar question and honestly I can't answer that even though I have both.....
 
#6 ·
What a sweet dilemma!

I got bit by the hi end , quality 1911 bug a few weeks back after firing a Wilson CQB Elite, shot it again on Friday. After a few weeks of immersing myself in all things 1911.... I'm also stuck on that "Brown or Wilson" issue.

The current plan is to buy a new Kobra Carry, sans the "Kobra Carry" on the slide and 10-8 sights from Jerry Hammond. Wait the ninety days and be happy.

After the Brown is ordered I'm going to look for a used, but not abused Wilson a full sized gun to use for matches and target shooting.

I think decent 1911's are like potato chips, Ya just can't have one.

FN in MT
 
#8 · (Edited)
Here is what I know, don't know if it will help.......

Anyone that says anything other than both are outstanding guns should be shot with the gun that he criticized.

I'm talking to Hammond about buying an Executive elite that is more or less a Custom Classic with 10-8 tactical sights.

I recently sold an older Supergrade.

My problem was not with the gun. It was made by two master smiths, one of whom is now in charge of the dept., or so I was told, and the other is at Nighthawk. It was very tight and functioned beautifully. Trigger was a thing of beauty.

Ron Phillips, once a master smith at Wilson and now in charge of R&D, I'm told, when he was on his own, between gigs at Nighthawk and Wilson, could make a hand fit, 1911, for $2400 and make a profit.

What is the difference between that gun and the Supergrade you'd buy. "Bullet proof parts," which is the mkt. term for cryogenics, plus "armor tuff," instead of blueing.

I think that Wilson is a company in transition. It is being run by Bill's son and they are expanding what they sell and the reps. are up-selling what they make. Of course, that is one man's opinion.

Ed Brown does not help his own case. He states on his web site that all his guns shoot the same. You pay for features, and finishes, although I'd like to think that they spend a little extra time on the Custom Classic, but I don't think they do, other than had polishing the sides.

Critics of Ed Brown guns say they machine everything-although when you make your own parts, you have the opportunity to make everything to fit.

Personally, I'd think that they'd be surprised just how much hand fitting there is compared to a Wilson, described here, as perfection. They are allowed to go slow on a Supergrade, they have their most experienced smiths and a special dept. To be fair, Wilson reps. claim that there is a lot of extra hours of hand fitting. My question has always been, does it really make it better or do they reach diminishing returns? I don't know the answer.

Of course, like I said, your extra $1500 will get you frozen parts and a coating. There is more hand fitting and they take their time to get it right according to Wilson, which begs a question that nobody on the Internet asks: why aren't they taking time with their other guns.

You are going to get an outstanding gun, no matter which way you go. In my opinion, the Custom Classic is prettier, has equally good parts, a slightly better sight, and is made by smiths with the same kind of experience and expertise.

The Wilson will have a lighter trigger, a coating, and you'll pay a premium because you were shopping in the frozen food section or because the parts were laying next to Ted Williams' head in the cryogenics lab.

In terms of accuracy, you could play William Tell with a 1911 with either.

Not only do I not have anything against a Supergrade, I think they are wonderful guns; but somewhat over-valued guns.

I think the Custom Classic is truly beautiful and under-valued.

I do challenge you to get both and give me the one that you don't like.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Welcome aboard and look forward to you becoming a valued contributor to the forum.

Well you certainly are looking at two of the finest 1911s out there and either one will no doubt make you very happy.

Each manufacturer has things that I believe make a strong case for each of them, and things I think they could do better.

In the end however they are both of the type of quality that taste and value come into play.

Taste is a subjective thing and of course there is no right and wrong answer for that, each of us has our own.

When it comes to value, that is a different story. Wilson no doubt would have to be considered more expensive as far as gun per dollar spent. There are several legit reason for this (such as options, number of offerings, etc.), but in the end, they cost more.

In higher end guns there tends to be diminishing returns as far as 'quality' of gun per dollar spent. In other words to wring out that last little bit of fit and finish tends to cost more and more for less overall improvement.

So we will assume for arguments sake that the Supergrade raises the bar just a bit over the Brown CC (by any standard an outstanding 1911), but at what cost, $1,500 or so? Is it worth this?

That is a question only each individual can answer, some will say no way, others would believe it to be money well spent for the return.

Either will serve you well, but which will be the better value to you?
 
#10 ·
I can't add anything to what Hex and Jerry have already said other than to agree wholeheartedly with their input. I myself am in the exact same boat and after having spent months going back and forth on every little thing, I'll be getting a Brown with the exact options I want ... first.

I plan to get the Supergrade next but when it came down to a choice (at least for the first very high end 1911) Brown just had a better "feel" about the company, value, etc.

That is really personal preference thing, but I would encourage you to read some of what Greyson has posted concerning the Quality to Price ratio in Brown's pistols (his SHOT post has some of it). The value is unmatched IMHO.

I think that for the money, nobody would deny (and as they ^ both mentioned) that there are diminishing returns on the Supergrade. It won't stop me from getting one, but it's always the exponential curve.

The only thing that would sway me to the Supergrade first is that they offer it in 10mm, but that's a whooooole nother topic.

Both fantastic, good luck in your decision!
 
#12 · (Edited)
I owned them both at the same time and was able to make a side-by-side comparison. I've still got the Super Grade.

My Wilson is an older version with the older Bomar-type rear sight, which I much prefer to the huge sight they've got now. When I had them, they were about $900-1000 apart--of course, the Wilson was higher. The Brown Classic Custom is more value for the money strictly because it's "less" gun for less money--Wilson gets 'closer' to perfection at exponentially more cost beyond where Ed Brown decided to end the Classic Custom's level of custom craftsmanship. (kinda like sayin' "that's enough customizing on that race car"--he coulda done more, but he didn't, and that, in my opinion is why the Brown CC is "cheaper".)

My SG is blued over hard chrome; I wouldn't have it any other way unless I decide to Ion Bond the upper half. Paint, no matter how it's touted, is still paint. The difference between my two specimens was fit and finish; while the finishes were almost apples-to-oranges, the fit was harder to evaluate--everything was just that little bit better--ever so slightly smoother, tighter, "crisper", by maybe 5-10%. The one feature where the Wilson completely outclassed the Classic Custom was the trigger. I have inspected and dry-fired LOTS of '11's that were customized by true "custom smiths"--Hoag, Clark (both jr. and sr.), Chow, Starks, Yosts, Christiansen, Burtons, Harrison, and Brians. A couple of these gunsmiths' trigger jobs come close to the Super Grade, but I have not yet found its' equal anywhere. It is the cleanest, crispest trigger anyone (who's tried) has ever dry-fired. Very little creep and no backlash to speak of; so good that a benchrest-rifle competition friend giggled when he dry-fired the SG, and he doesn' shoot handguns. He's used to a 14oz. trigger, and guessed (as I did) that the SG was a 2lb-12oz to 3lb trigger. A Lyman electronic gauge showed it was 3lb-14oz, which amazed us both.

In the end, I sold the Classic Custom, not because it wasn't excellent but because I only wanted one 5" specimen, so one had to go. My financial situation allowed me to keep a sample of artistry beyond function. However, I made the decision knowing I'd never have to carry it; the trigger is too scary for CCW and more suited for competition and bullseye. If I were forced to keep a carry gun then I might have kept the Brown. Actually, though, I probably would have sent the upper for an Ion Bond coating and adjusted the SG's trigger.
 
#13 ·
Personally I would go with the Brown CC. I wouldn't spend the extra coin for a slight if any difference on the Supergrade. If I was going to put out that kind of cash I personally would have a pistol worked over by one of the top smiths and really have something super!
 
#15 ·
I have a dear friend who has the SG and I have two Browns. He's convinced his gun is worth the extra dollars (BIG dollars). I have shot his gun on many occasions and, frankly, I cannot see the extra value... although it has a certain amount of eye-candy appeal my Kobra and Special Forces do not. It certainly is no tighter or accurate than my Browns.

Best advice? Go with what pleases you - neither is a wrong choice.
 
#16 ·
Have Both

I have the great fortune to own an Ed Brown Executive Target and two Wilson Supergrades. I also own a Wilson RDP. It's not a Supergrade, but has more options than normally come on a Supergrade.

I didn't buy the Custom Classic because I thought the highly polished slide would show minor scratches and wear too much.

The Ed Brown and the Supergrade Wilsons are very fine guns. Both brand guns shoot far better than I do and both have been ultra reliable.

To my eyes, the Supergrades are better finished internally than the Ed Brown. The Wilsons are tighter. The Ed Brown is MUCH easier to rack.

The Wilson Armor-Tuff is a care free surface. The Ed Brown is stainless and needs to be cared for appropriately.

What would I buy at this point?

I'd like to acquire a 4.25 9mm with a full size grip. Wilson makes one and Ed Brown does not. If both did, then I would have a tough decision.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I have the great fortune to own an Ed Brown What would I buy at this point?

I'd like to acquire a 4.25 9mm with a full size grip. Wilson makes one and Ed Brown does not. If both did, then I would have a tough decision.
You probably do know that EB will eliminate the bobtail on its carry models for a couple hundred bucks, but just in case you did not...

I like pretty as much as the next guy, but when it came to choosing a 1911 to use and carry I went with the EB and have no regrets with the choice. After some debate, I stuck with bobtail this time on my Executive Carry, but if I was ordering a second more personalized piece I might eliminate it myself and add a few more cosmetic bells and whistles, mostly for my own preference for traditional aethetics since the bobtail works fine for me other than less versatility swapping stocks between guns.

EDIT: After rereading your post, I find myself guilty of the same affliction which I often notice on the internet, which is lack of reading comprehension. You also specified 9mm, which of course EB does not offer in a 4.25 inch gun and probably will not offer anytime soon, so you of course are correct. I apologize for my knee jerk response. :(
 
#18 ·
I have one of each. They are both the "high art" form of Brown and Wilson. I spend a lot of time deciding on which Brown or Wilson to buy next. As to the exact guns mentioned, I have determined that I don't favor one over the other. Both function flawlessly. Both have incredible finish. Both are among the most accurate guns of any handgun, of any caliber, I own. If I close my eyes and really try to feel a difference, I might say I find the trigger on the Wilson to be slightly closer to perfect than the Brown. However, there is no difference in group size. This is really trying hard to find a difference.

I guess looking at the prices, I would have to say that Brown delivers more value in this high end model. Value being a personal assessment. I got a steal deal on the Wilson. It was on a consignment sale at my local gun shop. I offered $2400 on a $2800 ask. So, my Wilson was a superb value. If you are like me and buying new, I would say you can't go wrong with the Brown. For that matter, in my opinon, both are worth the price.
 
#19 ·
Had a CQB back in the day. Loved it. Finances were tough and sold it. Recently purchased a EB KC and I love it. Awesome gun (see my other posts for range report). I still plan to own another CQB when I can swing it. Both are great guns made by great folks.
 
#24 ·
I cannot add much to what others have written. I can tell you that I own two "standard" Browns and am getting a third. I love them. I also own a Wilson Defensive Combat which is a discontinued model that was just a notch below the Super Grade models. It was about $1,000 higher in the 1998 catalog than the CQB. I got mine for a very good price with about 100 rounds through it.

The finish on the Wilson is absolutely superb and, as Mordes15 says, the trigger is "scary." Yet, in the end, I like shooting and carrying my Browns more than my Wilson and am still impressed with the nice fit and finish of my Browns.
 
#25 ·
I've owned several Wilson's and one Ed Brown. (As soon as EB makes a .38 Super I'll own two) I prefer the Brown to the Wilsons but its a personal choice. Either should serve you well.
 
#26 ·
Both are fine.

The Brown Classic Custom designed more as a "game" pistol.

The Wilson I am not as familiar with. But Wilson is a full custom shop. As such, they will allow all kinds of options that Brown would not. Hence, those two factors alone tend to make Wilsons much more expensive.

Wilson has a successful and loyal fan base. They have earned it. The same can be said for Brown.

Regards,
Greyson
 
#29 ·
Been looking at a Classic Supergrade myself. I just have to check some other quick things first, then a decision can be made. I'm looking at either something like a NHC Heinie Tactical Carry, Classic Custom, or Classic Supergrade. Haven't yet ruled anything out, all is still on the table. I'm sure all 3 are great pistols. No debating about that, it just boils down to personal preferrences for me...
 
#30 · (Edited)
Hey jumpminow,

Your question is very legitimate. In fact, it is wisdom to get opinions from experienced people like many here on the forum. I did the same thing when I got back into 1911's and still do even now. But I just want to make a couple of observations about your thread. Positive ones I hope.

Every time I see a thread asking for comparisons between EB's and brand X,Y or Z,s I see some owners of X,Y or Z that never chime in on the EB channel swoop in like crazed vultures. They begin spewing why their brand is so much better than an EB. I visit other brand subforums on here pretty regular out of curiosity and can say I have yet to see an EB owner interjecting sarcasm in a brand comparison. Of course I am not saying EVERY brand X,Y or Z owner does this, but for some reason the Brown subforum seems to be a magnet for Brown bashers.

Anyways, the point of my post is to salute my EB brothers. :rock: You are the kind of gentlemen that fellow gun lovers like jumpminow can get an honest and gracious response from. You make me realize I picked the right brand of 1911 for me and the right bunch of people to claim as family. Hip, Hip, Hooray!

P.S. I came back to edit because I don't want anyone that said graciously they liked WC better than Browns to think I am calling them a "basher". Your opinions was what jumpminow asked for. My point was, those questions don't always get the decent responses given in this particular thread by non EB owners. Thank you for your respectful attitude.

Sincerely,

PastorDW
 
#31 ·
"If you have to ask the question,".....

I owned a Supergrade and a couple of other Wilsons. I own a couple of Ed Browns. I also ask questions all the time of my friend the gun smith, alocal Swat captain, Justin at Ed Brown, assorted Wilson reps., Hammond, Greyson, and in the past several gun writers, Bill Wilson, Les Baer, Rob Lathem, Keith Williams and Paul Liebenberg, as well as two different owners of gun companies and several guys in custom shops of several companies. I'd ask the friggen janitors if I knew them.

How else can an uniformed guy, an acknowledged mechanically challenged dummy, get informed.

I've asked myself about the differences between the Supergrade and the Custom Classic. Although I can't claim to know for sure, ultimately, it is more hours of hand fitting (doesn't mean better and it may mean that the parts need more hand fitting) and a claim by Wilson that using cryogenic technology, "bullet proof parts," to freeze parts improves the gun.

The guns are products of a different philosophy and are, in my opinion, marketed differently. Ed Brown states that the only differences in Custom Classic would be features which include hand polishing of the sides of the slide. Wilson, on the other hand, will tell you that their gun is at a whole other level from their other guns, including trigger, fit, and function is implied. In my experience, this is truthful.

I can't not imagining wanting one of each, just to have them. Since my wife limits my gun supply, and I don't lie a lot (after all, I am an addict) I limit myself an EB, EE that will end up a CC because I won't stop adding stuff.

The fact that I sold a Supergrade that will in fact mimic the EE is a statement about me, not about the gun as is any preference by anyone here.

Good luck, if you are disappointed with the ED Brown, I'd probably buy it from you. Get a Supergrade guy to make you the same deal.
 
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