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+P ammo in a RIA 1911

16K views 34 replies 18 participants last post by  Cappi 
#1 ·
Is anyone using +P ammo in their RIA 1911's? I am close to doing a deal on two new midsize (full size grip, 8+1 rds, 4" barrel) RIA 1911's for one HK USP Elite (and $100 cash) and I cannot find too much on RIA and +P ammo. The owner's manual that I read doesn't say yay or nay. Any info will be appreciated.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Short barrel 1911's have issues to begin with in the reliability section when under 4.25" inches, so going with a non-custom assembly line low end produced might have problems that will cost money to fix properly.

They are high risk investments IMO, the majority of them are great pistols but some of them need a little hand turning, some of it can be done by you or if you send it back to get worked on. If these are going to be used for conceal carry you might think about spending some cash for a Skilled smith to work them first.

I owned a 5" tactical 2 years ago and had it about a year, it was my entry level 1911 and it had failures but only at weird times, I would shoot 200 flawless round, then next time I shot a month later it would FTF after 70 rounds and then do it non-stop, then It would run flawlessly again, then It would out of no where FTF again a couple time along with the duracoat peeling back from the muzzle, after about 1,500 rounds of this I gave up and sold it, and bought a TRP.

No regrets about the purchase because I liked having to diagnose what was wrong and pushing through it, and like I said it was my very first 1911 and here I am 6 1911's later I still believe every one should get one as a entry level or range gun, it lets you see 1911's in every aspect.

Oh I also wanted to say I traded my HK USP 45 Tactical for it, that was the whole reason I posted actually. I loved the HK but parts and holsters and Weapon lights were all expensive and hard to come buy, along with $60 mags it was just too much, it shot great though and had almost no recoil. I got a lot of my money back though and managed to get the RIA along with 5 mags, a holster for it, 250 rounds of ammo and some cash back...

Final edit: Yes I shot many rounds of +P through it, as long as the barrel ramp is done right it will work right, mine had a standard throated barrel and it did great with all types. I shot Golden saber 230 and 185 +ps Gold Dots 230gr +P and some others but I don't remember the names right now
 
#5 ·
barrel ramp is done right it will work right, mine had a standard throated barrel and it did great with all types. I shot Golden saber 230 and 185 +ps Gold Dots 230gr +P and some others but I don't remember the names right now
That I did notice in the owner's manual. I was glad to see it recommended feed ramp work if it was intended to shoot HP's.

I, too, love the Hk and everything it does. What I like less and less is the more I shoot 1911's the bigger the HK grip gets. Making the trade gives me more that I would rather shoot along with something new to work on.

The RIA 1911's will get Hogue wrap around finger grips, the usual internal's polishing and super fit jobs along with matching, personalized paint scemes and mag well ext. As far as the feed ramp, I'll just wait and see what it does with the HP's I use (Stan Chen 185 grainers at just over 1000fps out of a 5" barrel). Thanks for the input.
 
#3 ·
Hmmm, although mine is a Fullsize GI I've fired over 15000 trouble-free rounds through it.

As for +P ammo I've fired a total of sixty rounds through mine, all Hornady TAP XTP+P in 230 grain. This is fairly warm ammo, pushing a 230 JHP at 904fps(Chrono'd). Not a problem.

fire all the +P you want, you won't hurt a Rock.
 
#6 ·
I think you'll be fine with the +p ammo. I've ran about a hundred rounds combined through both my 5" and 3.5" models. Maybe drop a heavier recoil spring in them if your worried about it.

Both my tacticals have been flawless. FS and CS. The CS had a weak recoil spring initially but that was easily fixed. The guns will eat any ammo I want to feed them every time. I generally shoot about a box of fmj a week out of the FS. A little less out of the CS but it usually sees a couple mags every trip to the range.
I love carrying either gun as my ccw piece. Super jealous on your purchase because I can't find a RIA 4" for sale anywhere.
 
#7 ·
Super jealous on your purchase because I can't find a RIA 4" for sale anywhere.
Thanks. This has been in the making for about 4 months. I had to put a deposit ( a $450 deposit, at that) on one and just let it sit there in his safe until another one came in. Now I simply give him my HK and get $350 back, tomorrow.
 
#9 ·
The HK was the one hand gun I had to have just by laying eyes on it. I didn't care if it was a jam o matic, I still had to have one. As with any good thing (except a good woman), that "want" fades away. After dumping so many rounds and practicing popping in loaded mags, I don't think high cap handguns are as much a value to me as they once were. I was fascinated with how fast some of the guys were reloading mags in competitions and that was what I refocused on. I was originally conned into the 1911 thing by my son, but now find that they are all I take to the range, anymore. Plus, they are so easy to work on. Gotta admit, I am starting to like them. The main thing I have noticed is you can take an inexpensive 1911 and make the thing work very well just by doing some mild tinkering. Sorry for getting long winded. I still get giddy at times.
 
#10 ·
Don't see an issue with +p in the RIA mine just spit out 50 rounds of the stuff yesterday. The only hiccup was the slide locked back once with rounds still in the mag. It was my fault my thumb creeped up and hit the slide lock on the first round fired. I forgot how much more bite the hotter stuff has I tightened my grip up and no more issues.
 
#12 ·
I am not sure about the deal you are working on, but I hhave about $550 into my ria cs. It fed ball ammo all day. I then tried corbon, speer, hornady, and Remington jhps with some nose dives. I then pollished the ramp with 1000 grit and steel polish, much less nose dives. Then I went to brownells and bought the Wilson combat cs guide rod (witch I had to chop a quarter inch and drill a hole to hold the spring closed for take down), this comes with an 18# spring. After this I have had no jams, even a stack of empty shells will feed. Other mods were wc match trigger, value line commander hammer and sear, and drop in beaver grip safety. I did over adjust a sear spring and broke it and replaced it. I now have about 3000 rounds through it and have only replaced 2 recoil springs. It has been a great gun ever since. I would do it all ovver again. I am not a Smith but I wanted something to learn how to work on. I don't know if you want to do all of that but it is mill spec and WC parts went in pretty easy. Good luck.
 
#16 ·
I have an RIA tactical 5" that i have shot NOTHING but 230gr +p ammo out of with NO problems and im in the 1000 + round range
 
#19 ·
I use +P 9mm JHP but not as a regular dietary supplement for my RIA.
I make sure what I carry for SD is liked and accurate by what I'm carrying, then it's all FMJ for practice.
I use up what's in a mag about every other month. Keeps my cost down and allows me to be comfortable knowing it'll handle what I'm feeding it.
 
#20 ·
Don't see the need for +p, to me it equals +$. It's a great way to get folks to spend more money for what's generally a pitiful increase in velocity. Some folks will argue barrier penetration and I gotta ask, "Why are you shooting through something you can't see through in a populated area you moron?!?!?" others will go on about how it makes em' feel all warm, fuzzy and safe inside. Me? I trust my XTPs, the proven performance of the .45 round, and hopefully my ability to put rounds where they need to go without breaking down and leaving a load in my Carhartt jeans.

Why would I use a round with less power than my carry load for practice? I load 185 grain XTPs with 8.9 grains of power pistol, I use SWCs for practice with the same load behind them. They shoot to the same point of aim, get comparable performance out of my Tactical. Don't make sense to do otherwise but then again I'm neanderthal, pre-cambrian, knuckle dragging ape of the first order so I might have missed a step or two far as evolution is concerned (or isn't).

Use them if you want but ask yourself if it's really worth it...and yes, long term use with +P ammo will wear a gun down quicker. It's simple physics at work...hotter load, more propellant, everything moves faster, more momentum equals an equal amount of force when the gun returns to battery. One a compact 1911? Well, everything is moving some thirty or so percent faster due to the shorter slide and recoil assembly, add in +P and with a gun notorious for being finicky you've increased your problems. Not saying you'll have problems but your odds'll go up I'd wager, so gun handling will become more paramount than before as things like limp wristing and proper grip will become equally more important. Not saying do or don't (you'll never catch me doing it but I'm still trying to get used to this whole wheel concept) but think about it a bit.
 
#22 · (Edited)
9mm, 10mm, .40, , 38 Super, .357 Sig, they all operate at much higher pressures than the .45 but no one thinks twice about using them in a 1911. And no one seems to worry about wearing out a gun using them.


If you've got a "finicky" gun, that's on you. I've got 3 1911's and none of them are finicky with any load. The Kimber was but I had the chamber reamed and that fixed that.

You choose to go your way, that's fine. I see no need to knock another guys choice. It's not like he decided to use a .25...
 
#28 ·
I didn't say I didn't agree. I think you are a little defensive on the subject. Why bring up offending sensibilities?

I'm just asking the question. And while I'm at it, has anyone worn out a 1911?

And, another one, if one uses +P for only occasional practice and carry, would it wear the gun out so much quicker?

I think you have a bias for some reason against +P. I've yet to figure out why.

It gives a little more oomph (although, there will be those who say the .45 is the only pistol round in the world that doesn't need any improvement) with little cost.
 
#32 · (Edited)
I openly admit to bias against it and any other handgun round that people tout as magic because of an extra hundred FPS. I'm biased against marketing hype, which is exactly what it equates to. What was originally a designation to keep people from using .38 super in .38 ACP pistols suddenly became the big buzzword, the verbal safety blanket. A good way to keep idgits from blowing up their 1900 or 1902 suddenly became an even better way to sell ammo far as I'm concerned.

There are loads and loads, reams and reams of data on the effectiveness of various rounds in their use against live targets that walk on two legs. Online, in books, never have I seen anything that's swayed me to believe that extra oomph is worth that extra couple of dollars.

Would it wear the gun down faster if it was used for infrequent practice and carry? Well, it would likely have little to no effect, that's a very obvious answer; however, let me ask you a simple question. You shoot standard loads 99% of the time, one percent of the time you shoot +P ammo and you carry with +P ammo. Which one are you going to perform better with? The round you shoot 99% of the time or the round you shoot 1% of the time? Your muscle memory is going to be more attuned to which one? Your point of aim and desire to shoot to said point of aim is going to be based on which one? See, I can ask questions as well. Where's the reward for doing very little if any training with one round and doing all your training with another? Maybe I'm just too damn stupid to catch up with y'all and I just don't get such a training paradigm and the genius behind it.

Has anyone worn out a 1911? Not me personally but I'd wager someone has...wouldn't you? It's a manmade device that over time wears down and breaks. Stands to reason on could be rendered unservicable if not outright irreparable. Same goes for the Glock, XD, M&P, and any other gun be it long or short you care to name. How does the old saying go? If you have to ask?

Defensive? Negative, I'm outright offensive on the subject and I make no bones about it. Why should I bother?
 
#33 ·
One thing about gaining a little age is one tends to realize that they aren't right as often as they thought...

Hmmm, I'm pretty sure I never said it was magic. When one can up the velocity of a handgun round by over 10%, I'd say that was significant.


On one hand you say the added oomph is not very much and on the other hand you ask how (if one doesn't train all the time with +P) is one to deal with the additional, what recoil, blast, different round?

Dr Roberts has at least one on his list of approved defensive loads for .45 acp. But, you being such an expert and all, probably don't care.

Tell you what, you go on hating it, I'll go on liking it. And the world will still turn.
 
#34 · (Edited)
And you claim I'm defensive? Never said you said the round was magic, just that people treat the round like it is magic. Wish I could pretend that I was sorry you've decided to take my honesty as an attack on you personally. I do not, nor am I going to start caring in the near or far future whom I might offend. Life is too short to walk on eggshells.

Another thing that comes with age is the attempt to use it to claim an odd sort of victory in matters or erudition and common sense. Thoreau once asked what the old have accomplished save for growing old. Hardly a feat in his day, less of a feat in ours. Still, if you wish to play the age card who am I to argue? It's a specious argument and I leave you to it.

Nor am I contradicting myself by claiming that the performance gained from +P ammo doesn't justify the price tag or the hype and then pointing out that it will indeed have stouter recoil. It's common sense that a person training with a regular 230 grain load is going to be used to the felt recoil from that round when compared to a +P loading going a hundred or so FPS faster. That extra kick does not equate to a massive improveent in terminal performance...it's just an acknowledgement of basic phyiscis. More velocity pushing the same mass will result in more...you guessed it...recoil. Also, it would not have the same point of impact. This all stems from my questioning why one would train very little with +P and carry it...which seemed more like a congenial admission that it will indeed cause more wear and parts breakage. All I was asking was then what else would you train with? I personally use 185 grain SWCs that shoot to the same POI as my XTPs in the same weight. I use the same amount of power pistol behind each round, the same bullet weight, etc.... I assume that if one were to train just a little with +P that most of their training/shooting with their defensive arm would be with standard pressure ammunition. It leads me to ask why one would do the bulk of their shooting with one round and shoot just enough of another to get a warm "Fuzzy" feeling about it. It was after all your suggestion and inquiring minds, or at least this inquiring mind was skeptical as to the wisdom of said approach. You did advocate shooting very little +P and using it for carry did you not?

So? Doctor Roberts likes it? Well hell, that settles it! I'm dumping all my reloads, trading in my truck, my dog, and selling the family spread and investing in a lifetime supply. A Doctor supports it so it must be good!

Will the world keep turning? Yes. Will I laugh as it turns? Endlessly.
 
#35 ·
Your Rock will handle +P pressures just fine




little age is one tends to realize that they aren't right as often as they thought
at 54, I've learned I don't know everything..
I just think i do ....:biglaugh:


+P ammo...i personally stoke all my carry/defense pistols with it.
Will it make a BIG difference if i have to stop a threat?
(God forbid I ever find myself in that situation)
donno, but I'm an advocate of using the largest and hottest rnd one can effectively shoot fast and accurately

My chrono has shown that +P will launch a 230gr slug at 960 fps in 5" barrel .
I think that's better than 870-900 fps most defense 230 gr roll

as far practice with standard pressure ball and carrying +P wonderslugs ..
as a practical matter, I don't think it makes a dimes worth of difference .
(contingent on being familiar with pistol and proficient)

Cause in a defense situation, you'll be "going cold" .
I don't know about ya'll, but there's not a dimes worth of difference in my shooting when doing the first live fire cold presentation drill between +P or standard pressure .

going "cold" It takes me 2 to 2.5 seconds to put 2 shots on the target .
The first shot is generally always "in the zone" (8" circle) , the second isn't always in the zone

after a dozen or so presentation drills my times are down to 1.6 to 1.9 seconds with both shots in the 8" circle .
Doesn't make any difference whether I'm using standard pressure ball or +P either .
The pistol bucks and sights drop back into place with no noticeable time difference with any ammo


YMMV



.L.T.A.
 
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