1911Forum banner

Dilemma? Kimber..SIG

12K views 61 replies 23 participants last post by  zdragon52 
#1 · (Edited)
I just picked up a Kimber Ultra Carry Crimson and now possess this and a very nice SIG Ultra Compact. The SIG has checkered front strap, night sights, and a list of other goodies and I like the gun very well. The thing does NOT fit standard leather holsters very well, I have two Galcos, Kramer, and a Sparks, and the gun hangs in all of them despite the various tricks I have tried.

The Kimber,(I have owned several in the past and currently own an Aegis Pro, and a Solo) has only the CTCs, no checkering, NS etc, but fits all my holsters very nice indeed. I got the thing to have a Kimber threesome, but the SIG is an EXCELLENT shooter and nearly 200$ less than a Kimber less equipped. I got to believe the Kimber holds value better...

Any help out there? Anyone have similar nightmares and what was the outcome? Thanks in advance! Are there any clues as to which is the best gun considering they are essentially the same frame, same caliber etc, trying to decide between the two is my dilemma.
 
#7 ·
If you guys are going to carry a SIG 1911, why don't you buy a TR model? I like SIG's take on the 1911 with their classic line slide, but if I were going to carry a 1911, I'd buy the traditional model.
 
#10 ·
I don't think I wouldn't buy a gun because it didn't fit a holster I already have but I can see how convenient it is. Sig 1911's have a lot to offer. I will put it to you like this. If there was a Sig Tac Pac and a Kimber Super Match on the table and I could pick one for free, I would take the Tac Pac. I would take Sig's entry level gun over Kimber's top shelf gun every time. And I like Kimbers. A Sig XO is just as much gun as a Super Match.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Kimbers are, for the most part, well made guns. I wouldn't sell off ones that I already owned to buy a Sig, provided there were no problems with it (and if I owned any Kimbers to begin with, which I don't ;)), but given the choice I'd take a Sig over a Kimber any day of the week and twice on Sunday. For the premium they charge, I don't care for how much MIM they use. I didn't mention the MIM to start a debate, either...but the hammer and sear made of MIM? No thanks. Sig uses billet tool steel for their FCG parts, and use match grade hammer-forged barrels. You can't beat that for the money you pay.

Get a good quality custom made holster for your Sig, and enjoy it. Leather will form to the Sig profile over time, but I think you'd be better served by getting a holster actually made for it.
 
#15 ·
Custom2, it was not a question of holster fit as to why the Kimber was purchased, it was simply a good buy I could not resist. I really like the SIG and for the money I spent on it, the Kimber clan would not even give a person the time of day. I guess I should suck it in, get the correct holster and quit spending money and spinning my wheels on the "not right" for the gun holsters.
 
#16 ·
I really like the SIG and for the money I spent on it, the Kimber clan would not even give a person the time of day.
All the more reason I'm happier with my Sig. I was considering a Kimber Warrior as a duty weapon, but after reading about the Sigs and doing my research, I couldn't be happier with the TacOps. Brand myopia is a sad thing when it prevents folks from seeing a great thing at a great price.
 
#22 ·
I hope the Sig Forum doesn't become another Kimber bashing place.
I was advocate for this Forum (and Sig 1911's) because I believed Sig 1911's to be a quality weapon. My Kimbers have been fantastic. Reliable, accurate, well made.
It's not about this over that. Its about what suits YOU. I've owned different brands, sometimes its hard to choose, at the safe, when heading to the range.

I like SOME of the Sig 1911's, I like SOME of the Kimbers. Not every weapon fits every hand.

These are two FACTORY Sigs I owned few years ago. Notice the factory dehorn on the stainless! Both early examples of what later became "off the shelf" models.

 
#23 ·
I wouldn't call "bashing" discussing the facts about how things are built. Obviously, all 1911 manufacturers do not use the same processes, materials, and hand-fitting.

It is obvious to anyone that has researched it that SIG 1911's are a better value (you get higher quality for your money) than Kimber. That is not "bashing", that is a fact.

It seems that since you own Kimbers that you are taking an emotional point of view, and not a logical one.

When I researched 1911's, having not owned one last year, I ended up with a SIG. If Kimber or some other company would have been a better value, I would have bought another brand.
 
#24 · (Edited)
There are no "facts" to this. Hand fitting might be better in some areas, but it does not assure better quality. Depends on who does the fitting. Lesser quality cast, or quality control on steel parts, will not match high quality MIM. Consistant quality control, or higher quality inital design, will provide a superior product in the long run. All research is not equal, and will not assure comparative results. I won't say anything negative about Sig 1911's. I won't say anything negative about Kimbers either. I WILL say that in my (VERY considerable) experiance, with BOTH, they are both fine production weapons.
You chose a Sig. That is the only "fact". There is some bias regarding the non traditional external extractor on Sigs. There are many that believe a 1911 with a trigger associated "Series 80", firing pin safety cannot achieve a trigger with the smooth quality of the Swartz type firing pin safety. Many repeat the myths surrounding MIM parts, ignoring the tens of millions of rounds fired from Kimbers, and others with MIM parts.
There are many very subtle differences that drive the competition in 1911 manufacture. I like the differences, I like discovering the differences. I'm not alone in that. I have owned enough Sig 1911's and Kimber 1911's to assure anyone with reasonable discretion, one is NOT better than the other. They are
different within the brand, and within the models offered. Choose wisely for what you seek. I'm glad you found a Sig you're happy with.
I believe YOU, to have the emotional response, with loyalty to your choice.
You believe your "research" to be infallable and unbiased. My OPINION is based upon many thousands of rounds, and years of ownership of various models of BOTH brands, as well as others.;)
 
#25 ·
I can't figure out why people are having so many issues with finding holsters. Now as far as railed Sig's, yeah that makes sense but the non-railed I dont get it. All my holster say they are colt 1911 but fit my Sig perfectly. I mean the leather at first was tighter than all Hell. I mean super tight, almost as if it was glued in there. But a little stretching and it fits like a glove, much better than O.J.'s.
 
#29 ·
It must be stated that MIM varies wildly in quality. This is not opinion, it is a fact.

The only "self-appointed expert" is you based on your own words: "very considerable experience". Now if that "experience" was in mim and other metal manufacturing and not rounds fired, that would hold much more weight.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Not sure who you are quoting? "self appointed expert". I'm not expert at 1911's, function or manufacture. That is why I'm not making declarations about what is "best value". Please find me the threads where MIM parts on Kimbers have failed. There are threads here where Sig thumb safeties have failed. Parts on 1911's fail sometimes.
If you believe you have "best value", then I'm not going to change your mind.
Many on other Forums believe same about their Kimbers, Colts, Springfields, Dan Wessons, Baers, Browns, Wilsons, Taurus, RIA, etc. ad nauseum. If you get to have similer experiance with 1911's and shooting and people I've shared experiance with, then you will be fortunate. I'm not an expert. I learn things all the time, every day.
 
#31 ·
The only "self-appointed expert" is you based on your own words: "very considerable experience".
That wasn't OGS's own words. He was quoting another source, from Wilson Combat. No offense, but discounting someone's 30+ years of shooting experience simply because he doesn't have MIM manufacturing experience is a little short-sighted. I'm not trying to speak for him, but if 30 years of shooting spread over 30 1911's and 100K rounds doesn't give you a feel for what works and what doesn't, then I'm not sure what does. It seems that every thread in which you participate degenerates into a pissing contest, for no real reason. Switch to decaf, perhaps?

Moving along, yes, MIM varies widely in quality. Yes, Kimber uses more of it than Sig. Yes, both companies are VERY GOOD at making high quality MIM parts for their 1911s. I was unaware that Wilson used MIM on their CQB's. That says alot about modern processing techniques.

Again, if we're talking Kimber vs Sig, for the price I'll take Sig. This is based on fit and finish, quality, more options included for your dollar, and the excellent customer service I've received from Sig over 6+ years of owning their guns. Kimbers are fine guns, but Sig gets my vote. In all honesty, "bang for the buck" is completely subjective. Pick what you want.
 
#33 ·
Guys, both brands are VERY high quality. Both companies have a very well known reputation.

Value for the dollar you spend is where I think Sig has the upper hand. Both companies seem to start off with the same core components and build their models up from there. Another place where Sig has an advantage over other brands. They offer forged slides and frames, bar stock hammers and sears and front strap checkering on ALL models and then take that foundation and add more options from there.

I will use the Kimber Super Match for example again. Take a Super Match and compare it to a Custom II. The Super Match has the same MIM fire control parts as a Custom II. It has the same MIM safeties as a Custom II. It pretty much is a TLE II with a nice paint job with target sights and a price tag 1000 dollars more than a TLE II.

Compare an XO to an STX now. You have the same core materials to build on throughout the line like Kimber does only you get more VALUE with Sig. You get front strap checkering on all models and tool steel hammers and sears. You get the same level of hand fitting on Sigs all throughout the line. Yes you will get the same MIM safeties and othe small parts on an XO and a STX like on a Kimber but the core of the pistol has more value. Now the best part about it is the price difference between an XO and an STX is only a few hundred dollars rather than a grand when comparing Kimbers base model to it's top shelf model.

So, I can honestly say that both brands make fine pistols. But I feel Sig is the far better value.
 
#37 ·
Guys, both brands are VERY high quality. Both companies have a very well known reputation.

Value for the dollar you spend is where I think Sig has the upper hand. Both companies seem to start off with the same core components and build their models up from there. Another place where Sig has an advantage over other brands. They offer forged slides and frames, bar stock hammers and sears and front strap checkering on ALL models and then take that foundation and add more options from there.

I will use the Kimber Super Match for example again. Take a Super Match and compare it to a Custom II. The Super Match has the same MIM fire control parts as a Custom II. It has the same MIM safeties as a Custom II. It pretty much is a TLE II with a nice paint job with target sights and a price tag 1000 dollars more than a TLE II.

Compare an XO to an STX now. You have the same core materials to build on throughout the line like Kimber does only you get more VALUE with Sig. You get front strap checkering on all models and tool steel hammers and sears. You get the same level of hand fitting on Sigs all throughout the line. Yes you will get the same MIM safeties and othe small parts on an XO and a STX like on a Kimber but the core of the pistol has more value. Now the best part about it is the price difference between an XO and an STX is only a few hundred dollars rather than a grand when comparing Kimbers base model to it's top shelf model.

So, I can honestly say that both brands make fine pistols. But I feel Sig is the far better value.
My thoughts exactly, and well stated.
 
#35 · (Edited)
I've given some thought to this. In the world of 1911's, some of the value IS in the mechanical, and in production 1911's, Sig is MORE than it should be at the price point. I feel I must note as I have before, I've owned some of the BEST Sig 1911's. I was advocate of Sig, and challenged this site to offer Sig 1911's their own Forum. I'm glad that happened.
There is also intrinsic, and asthetic value. My Kimbers have been fine shooters,
I like the smaller than Commander, Bull Barrel design offered on some models.
Some like pistols without frontstrap checkering. Some insist upon traditional slide section profile. Some insist upon traditional extractor. Kimber offers alot of choices for those that want choices. Alot of 1911 shooters find the Series 80,
firing pin safety, inhibits a smooth trigger function. Some feel the Kimber Swartz deteriorates and becomes a liability at high round count. I don't feel Sig has dollar value advantage, UNLESS they have the weapon YOU want. Kimber still offers, (when you can find them) some great pistols at less than $1000.

This all began.. Sig VS Kimber, Just my opinion here, but I believe it should be Sig AND Kimber. I Want BOTH! Kimber I want is Classic Pro (no Swartz) with Turnbull blued finish, and TruIvory (fake) grips. Sig I want, is the Nightmare Carry, in .357 Sig. (BadAZZ)

As for my experience, it has taught me all the things I don't know. It has reminded me of all the things I might hope to learn. It has cost, myself, and sometimes others. Value, by definition, is implied rarity, and difficulty to achieve. Experience is valuable. If my experience has no value to
some here, that is with them. I try to contribute as I may, I enjoy visiting the Forum.
 
#36 ·
Alright, nobody back away from the campfire just yet.

Custom 2-perhaps you can shed some light on the SIG source for MIM parts? (As one has alluded to here, there's several quality levels of MIM parts, and it has unfortunately caught on as a blanket phrase on the interwebs to mean "junk")

One 1911 builder I've read has chosen to leave some of his SIG MIM parts on the pistol; a critical part like the slide stop.
 
#39 ·
hate to see all the mud slinging here, but i did learn from the mods last post that sigs are forged frames!!!!!?????? I hope thats correct. Iv been a springfield fan over kimber recently soley because of the stronger forged frames...was unaware sig sauer used same process...think i need to retake a look at a few sigs.
I like kimbers fine, they usually have great triggers out of the box. Im just put off by the 1 lousy magazine, and a 1 year limited warranty.....my first 1911 was a custom 2, which shot just fine. I ended up trading her though for a spinger champ model and never looked back, but i am looking at sig now
 
#40 ·
You won't be disappointed. Sig triggers are pretty nice out of the box as well.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top