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-   -   CCI 22 LR SV "Factory Seconds" (https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=331353)

jbloch 09-02-2011 02:40 PM

CCI 22 LR SV "Factory Seconds"
 
CCI 22 LR standard velocity loads are generally the default load for my Camden High Standard Super Trophy, as these older pistols are constructed from carbon steel and high velocity rounds can crack the frame. Anyway, I was in my local urban large gun store the other day, and noticed that they had 200 count CCI SV white boxes labeled as I described in the title: "Factory Seconds." My basic question is if any of you have any idea what these are like and exactly what the "Factory Seconds" means, i.e. are they manufactured loads with "mild" variation, or are they really reloads? In which case, I've always wondered about reloading rimfire cartridges, since there'd be a firing pin indentation which seems like it could be an issue to me. The other, obvious reason for the question is that at this gun store, they're half the price of the regular CCI SV loads that come in the plastic 100 count containers, though I've gotten my CCI SV through an on-line supplier in the past which come in the 50 count cardboard boxes and are a bit less than in the plastic containers.

steveno 09-02-2011 05:39 PM

I can't imagine that an ammo company when sell "seconds" unless it is a cosmetic defect only

ehparis 09-02-2011 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveno (Post 3430990)
I can't imagine that an ammo company when sell "seconds" unless it is a cosmetic defect only

Ditto. The problem has to be merely cosmetic. And if they're made by CCI they're likely good ammo.

USMM guy 09-02-2011 07:55 PM

Some poster made another reference to these a while back.
 
But if I remember correctly they purchased 5,000 of them and they were packed loose instead of the way that they normally come.

jbloch 09-03-2011 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USMM guy (Post 3431200)
But if I remember correctly they purchased 5,000 of them and they were packed loose instead of the way that they normally come.

Yes, I think that's correct--I didn't shake the boxes, but it seems that they are loose bulk packed--that's OK with me--that's why the loads in the nice 100-pack plastic containers are higher than in the cardboard containers. Loose bulk packing is OK with me.

USMM guy 09-03-2011 08:42 AM

If I came across some at a good savings.
 
I would buy a box or two. I would then try them, and if I had no issues. I would not hesitate to pick up a bunch of them.

excess3 09-04-2011 02:51 AM

'factory seconds', could mean anything.

wrong powder, not enough, too much, none
(velocity out of spec)

goofed up bullets ... wrong alloy, center of gravity problems

problems with the primer reliability
brass problems, dimensionally out of spec, mismarked,etc

Glacierwolf 01-17-2020 11:33 AM

CCI Factory Seconds
 
To answer your question from 2011...…. We received a few pallets of these in Alaska's interior back then. The local hardware stores that sold guns and the Ft Wainwright and Eielson AFB Exchanges got a pallet each too. They were distributed by W. R. Grace out of Anchorage. I talked with a representative from Grace. CCI standards for these match rounds are .28" groups and no larger...…. and these Seconds did not pass testing they were .02" too large! I know, how horrible! They were sold in yellow bulk packed plastic boxes of 200rds for $11.99 a box. I got Lot:K11P07. The UPC label 1-007668310070-9

Nitro.45 01-18-2020 07:59 AM

As far as the OP’s question about reloading 22......are ya nuts??:biglaugh:
Primer compound would be a nightmare....anyway, some say 9mm isn’t worth it, that certainly isn’t!
Thanks Glacier for the info...I have not seen them yet, but I’ll give them a run.

Jim Watson 01-18-2020 08:58 AM

You can get tools and supplies to reload .22s. Hardly seems worth the trouble, but the "preppers" liked it.

http://22lrreloader.com/design-details/

Frank Vaccaro 01-18-2020 01:46 PM

I am not going to reload any rim fire. The shellholder would have a charged case & you'd possibly put pressure on the rim. No thanks!

pocketshaver 01-18-2020 06:49 PM

I would NEVER buy ANYTHING labeled as FACTORY SECOND in terms of rimfire ammunition.

And I sure as hell would never buy something labeled as factory second in a box with a CCI label on it.

I have 70 year old Russian ammunition that I consider to be higher quality then "factory first" rimfire from CCI.

Nitro.45 01-19-2020 08:43 AM

Oh C’mon Shaver, CCI is some of the best stuff available at that price point.
It beats the hell out of “Thunderbolt”, “Lightning”, “Bucket-O-Bullets” and a whole bunch of other cheap junk rounds. Even the old copper washed Winchester X-Pert that used to be good is crap.
We are not comparing CCI to Eley Tenex, but it works good!

Nitro.45 01-19-2020 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Vaccaro (Post 13041822)
I am not going to reload any rim fire. The shellholder would have a charged case & you'd possibly put pressure on the rim. No thanks!

Yeah, no way!
Besides, how many of us don’t have 2 generations worth rat holed by now anyway?? My kids won’t have to worry about buying any!!

Nitro.45 01-19-2020 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Watson (Post 13041576)
You can get tools and supplies to reload .22s. Hardly seems worth the trouble, but the "preppers" liked it.

http://22lrreloader.com/design-details/

That’s kinda funny considering that they won’t be able to find projectiles when the SHF. Even if you can....just buy it loaded! :biglaugh:

flechero 01-26-2020 11:02 AM

Saw and copied this from another forum where the OP asked the same question via email to CCI directly:

Quote:

CCI's e-mail response.

CCI seconds are rounds that do not meet our specifications for misfire rate, accuracy or velocity. These are rounds of ammunition that are sold on the seconds market at discounted prices. These rounds are still safe to shoot they just do not meet print specifications for quality and reliability.

USMM guy 01-26-2020 01:32 PM

At least they are being aboveboard about it.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flechero (Post 13048714)
Saw and copied this from another forum where the OP asked the same question via email to CCI directly:

A lot of these ammo makers would just package these rounds up with everything else and ship it out as premium ammo.

pocketshaver 01-26-2020 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flechero (Post 13048714)
Saw and copied this from another forum where the OP asked the same question via email to CCI directly:

Id NEVER trust "seconds" from CCI. When I got a case of 22long ammo from them, they felt that 30% of the ammunition needing 3 or 4 firing pin strikes on different parts of the rim to ignite was acceptable. They also felt that the 1 in 5 that failed 4 firing pin strikes, was acceptable.

They also felt that bench resting the rifle, and at a range of 20 yards, having the bullet shoot 2 - 4 times at zero, then suddenly hitting 6 inches low was also acceptable.

Nitro.45 01-27-2020 06:25 AM

Are you saying those results are from the “seconds”?
Or, off the shelf standard velocity?
I have never had an issue with any of their ammo (or primers), although I have not tried their seconds. For what it’s worth, I have shot several bricks of CCI Blazer 22’s and was pleased with their performance in auto loaders.

pocketshaver 01-27-2020 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitro.45 (Post 13049438)
Are you saying those results are from the “seconds”?
Or, off the shelf standard velocity?
I have never had an issue with any of their ammo (or primers), although I have not tried their seconds. For what it’s worth, I have shot several bricks of CCI Blazer 22’s and was pleased with their performance in auto loaders.

those results came from regular standard product youll find any shelf in America. Merely bought a case or two of fresh production that year. and CCI people felt that was acceptable.

They even had me send them a 100 round tray of unfired cartridges and save up an entire 100 round tray of cartridges that wouldn't fire on the first try.

Nitro.45 01-28-2020 06:38 AM

Thanks for the clarification.
Perhaps I have just been lucky, or I’m getting my stuff from a different plant.
Anybody else out there in forum land have any issues with these?? I would sure like to know if they are starting to suck so I don’t get stuck with a case of them!
As I mentioned earlier, rimfire has been tough from a quality standpoint for the last decade, or even two. CCI has always performed far better than those “Buckets” and Mega Packed crap. Even Federal Auto Loader is beginning to piss me off. I would start a poll, but there are far too many to bash!!

pocketshaver 01-28-2020 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitro.45 (Post 13050340)
Thanks for the clarification.
Perhaps I have just been lucky, or I’m getting my stuff from a different plant.
Anybody else out there in forum land have any issues with these?? I would sure like to know if they are starting to suck so I don’t get stuck with a case of them!
As I mentioned earlier, rimfire has been tough from a quality standpoint for the last decade, or even two. CCI has always performed far better than those “Buckets” and Mega Packed crap. Even Federal Auto Loader is beginning to piss me off. I would start a poll, but there are far too many to bash!!

they changed the primer compound, turn it from being a glass filled putty, and made it a spray paint.
There was a guy on rimfirecentral who spent a few years collecting rimfire ammo form all the popular flavors he could and cross sectioned them. Very big differences over the decades.

Most guns could use a better mainspring. but that would mean fixing up the rest of the mechanism.

Nitro.45 01-29-2020 06:43 AM

That’s good to know.....not good news, but good to know. Well, since they do their testing and have set thresholds, perhaps they will see the err of their ways when misfires quadruple. Hopefully they will do a turnaround. As USMM Guy said, most of these other companies would just pack it all up and sell it as premium. Sad thing, when I was a kid, it was rare to have a misfire. My go to was always the Winchester Super X and accuracy was great. This cheap, hurry up, disposable, make a buck society is ruining the quality of everything.

pocketshaver 01-29-2020 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitro.45 (Post 13051250)
That’s good to know.....not good news, but good to know. Well, since they do their testing and have set thresholds, perhaps they will see the err of their ways when misfires quadruple. Hopefully they will do a turnaround. As USMM Guy said, most of these other companies would just pack it all up and sell it as premium. Sad thing, when I was a kid, it was rare to have a misfire. My go to was always the Winchester Super X and accuracy was great. This cheap, hurry up, disposable, make a buck society is ruining the quality of everything.

the super x 22lr hasn't been that great in some time. I think after 2003 it isn't worth a tinkers ass. before, it was pretty decent.

most reliable stuff ive ever had in 22lr was Peters brand with the pheasant on the brownish colored box. LOVED that stuff.

ever notice that a box of rimfire ammunition in say 1990 and before, had velocity and drop at specific ranges listed? The drop on that Peters hi vel is HALF of what hi velocity has now at the same range..

Nitro.45 01-30-2020 06:29 AM

Yeah, funny how that works.....
Somewhere around 1980 I remember the CCI Stinger when it came out. The rich kids bought those and I plodded along with my Super X. Lots of squirrel hunting growing up. I had an opportunity to shoot some of the CCI and was totally impressed. Had to adjust the scope for those!! If you want that type of performance today, you’ll have to pay $15 or more per box for the likes of Eley or Lapua Midas (way more).


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