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-   -   Classic Supergrade purchase question (https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=1010598)

Flight Medic 02-23-2020 06:16 AM

Classic Supergrade purchase question
 
Always wanted to own a top-tier Wilson. Came across this as-new, never-fired Classic Supergrade for sale locally, seller is asking $5000. Paperwork shows he paid $6130 and he is including 5 additional brand new 47D magazines.


https://dallas.texasguntrader.com/us...es/4276971.jpg

https://dallas.texasguntrader.com/us...es/4363927.jpg


Good deal, or meh? Should I counteroffer? If so, what would be fair without being insulting?



.

Grandpas50AE 02-23-2020 07:25 AM

If I made a counter-offer, it would not be very much below that $5000. That gun is gorgeous, and the Supergrades have more options on them and more time spent by the SG smiths fitting them (particularly the barrel fitting protocol). He's basically giving you the tax, shipping, and Charcoal bluing for a discount already. My own opinion is that gun looks completely pristine and worth the $5k even.

pcar157993 02-23-2020 08:35 AM

[QUOTE=Flight Medic;13075532]Always wanted to own a top-tier Wilson. Came across this as-new, never-fired Classic Supergrade for sale locally, seller is asking $5000. Paperwork shows he paid $6130 and he is including 5 additional brand new 47D magazines.


https://dallas.texasguntrader.com/us...es/4276971.jpg

https://dallas.texasguntrader.com/us...es/4363927.jpg


Good deal, or meh? Should I counteroffer? If so, what would be fair without being insulting?

Lightly used, LNIB, or whatever, it is still a "used gun" no matter what the options are on the gun. From what I have been seeing on another site, used guns are going for +/- 70% of MSRP. No harm in making an offer.
Just sayin'!

Dddrees 02-23-2020 08:39 AM

Personally I would consider it a good price at 5K.

azguy1911 02-23-2020 10:54 AM

I completely disagree, try to sell one for $5,000, nearly impossible as the people walking around with $5K are super small and many of those buyers would rather add another $2,000 and be at the customer builder level.

I wouldn't be any higher than $4,500 and I had a buddy sell a brand spoken, unfired new tactical supergrade for $4,250. He started at $5,200 and dropped it $100 a week on addicts until a buyer stepped forward.

My guess for this seller, you are the only guy really looking at it with the ability to really drop $5'gs

Grandpas50AE 02-23-2020 12:22 PM

As you can see, there are a lot of varying opinions on this. From the invoiced price, he is offering an 18.5% discount, and depending on one's own point of view, that is good enough or not good enough (even with that Charcoal blue entire gun option). An offer of $4800 takes the discount to about 22%.

chrysanthemum 02-23-2020 02:12 PM

A specific price point that exists within a range of reasonable asking prices often reflects the eagerness (or, conversely, the willingness to "hold out" for more) of the seller to complete the transaction.

From a buyer's side, that same price point offers a clue as to how long that gun (or other property such as real estate), is likely to remain available. If the buyer really -- really -- wants that item, it's probably best to waste little time....i.e., get it before the next person gets it, and consider it to be well worth the asking price.

But if a prospective buyer is not so committed to or totally desireous of a specific gun, and is willing to patiently search the market for possible better deals, then patience and/or plausible counter offers can often shave considerable dollars from the final cost.

I think the offer price here is within a fair range. It don't see it as being at an extreme end -- either end -- of a reasonable market asking price range. So I think your degree of interest in this specific gun might be the most important consideration. I don't think you're being taken advantage of if you buy at $5k; I think that's fair to both buyer and seller, something neither would later have deep regrets over (the price itself). But I also think that a buyer's patience might likely be rewarded -- eventually -- with similar quality at a lower cost.... conceivably later with the same seller/gun.

Sooner or later, a very motivated/eager seller, perhaps even an heir of an original owner, will likely emerge from somewhere.

regalsc 02-23-2020 02:26 PM

If it was my decision I would find out when it was made in case it doesn’t have the bullet proof parts. It’s a buyer’s market at this time & for me at least there’s always another gun to choose from. I no longer am in a rush to purchase a gun just in case somebody else might get it.

chrysanthemum 02-23-2020 02:50 PM

Just a footnote: Based on the thumb safety design, the Eagle emblem on slide, and other clues (including the paperwork and list price), I'd be pretty confident that all parts in this 1911 are BP.

As to SGs (specifically SGs; as non-SGs are a different story), my best recollection is that the upgrade to the "new" ambi-safety (and 100% BP parts) was made in about year 2010, possibly a few months earlier (in 2009). Base invoice price of Classic SG was well under $5,000 in those days! :bawling:

The similar BP upgrade on non-SGs came out just a few years later.

Grandpas50AE 02-23-2020 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrysanthemum (Post 13075974)
Just a footnote: Based on the thumb safety design, the Eagle emblem on slide, and other clues (including the paperwork and list price), I'd be pretty confident that all parts in this 1911 are BP.

As to SGs (specifically SGs; as non-SGs are a different story), my best recollection is that the upgrade to the "new" ambi-safety (and 100% BP parts) was made in about year 2010, possibly a few months earlier (in 2009). Base invoice price of Classic SG was well under $5,000 in those days! :bawling:

Based on his invoice base price of $5195, I suspect it was ordered and made after that late 2009 to 2010 timeframe. When did the base price of the SG go to $5195? It was at least after that that it was ordered and sometime after that since it was made since in those days it was 36 or more months from order to delivery IIRC.

chrysanthemum 02-23-2020 03:30 PM

^^^

:)Just reminiscing...I remember those long wait period days. I got my first SG just weeks before the long wait times arrived. Base price of that Classic SG was probably just over $4,000 but I don't remember exactly. I've got the paperwork, but not so easy to "dig out" of storage. Added: Curiosity persuaded me to look through old Wilson orders made via email.... saw that my first Tactical SG ordered in early year 2011 had base price of $4,350.

Then there were the Obama-era wait times on AR builds. I got caught in those delays. But Obama did unwittingly help to sell a huge number of ARs.:rolleyes:

US1911 02-23-2020 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flight Medic (Post 13075532)
Good deal, or meh? Should I counteroffer? If so, what would be fair without being insulting?

Doesnít matter if itís new or used, if itís marked Wilson Combat, then itís covered. Doesnít matter if itís $5k or $7.5k, if you can afford one, you can afford the other. Doesnít matter if it has bullet proof or bb proof parts, Iíve seen no stats to support that a non-bullet proof SG will fail before a bullet proof one would.

What really matters, is the question you should be asking yourself. Does the pistol for sale represent 100% of the options that a new SG would, if you were to special order one today? If the answer is yes, then perhaps the pistol for sale is indeed for you. If the answer is no, then why spend that much for an investment grade pistol, when you can spend a bit more and get exactly what you want.

Spend a little less to scratch the itch of owning a SG, or spend a little more to not only scratch the itch, but to own a personal treasure?

If youíre uncertain as to all the options you may prefer, spend some quality time reviewing all the photos in the Wilson folder, ask a bunch of discovery questions, then consider speaking with a knowledgeable Dealer, such as Jerry @ Hammond Gun & Tackle, George @ MI Gunslingers or Terry @ PT Partners. Chances are that either of those folks would save you money, guide you in the right direction, intervene on your behalf to ensure your satisfaction, and create a buying experience that would leave you wanting for nothing.

Flight Medic 02-24-2020 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by US1911 (Post 13076062)

<snip>

What really matters, is the question you should be asking yourself. Does the pistol for sale represent 100% of the options that a new SG would, if you were to special order one today? If the answer is yes, then perhaps the pistol for sale is indeed for you. If the answer is no, then why spend that much for an investment grade pistol, when you can spend a bit more and get exactly what you want.

</snip>


I dont have a set list of options on a 1911. I wouldnt even know what to ask for, and I'm WAY too impatient to order a gun or have one built...Im an instant gratification kinda guy.

I do, however, appreciate a smokin deal...but after Grandpa did the math for me I realize this aint one. Im gonna hold out for either a better deal, or a pistol that truly speaks to my heart.

Thanks for the input, gentlemen. As always, much appreciated.

tjpaxton 02-24-2020 05:35 PM

The High-End market is very soft. I have been tracking SuperGrade sales for about 3 years now.

I patiently waited for a good deal on mine. I found a 2017 Tactical Supergrade exactly as I wanted. It was for sale by a private seller for several months. I finally made an offer and I negotiated to 40% off the MSRP.

There are better deals out there than settling for $5,000. These aren't selling anywhere near new pricing from a private seller.

There's a Classic SG on the usual on-line auction site. It's been for sale for at least 2 years at $4,000. It's listed as Brand-New, the starting bid with "No Reserve" has recently dropped to $3,800 and no one even bids on it. All it takes is one bid and it can be had for $3,800.

A Classic SG just sold on said on-line auction site 2 weeks ago after one bid of $3,800 and that one has upgraded flush & crowned barrel and shortened slide stop pin and recessed frame.

The market puts that Classic SG at about 4K. No More..

Plantar5 02-24-2020 05:52 PM

Just saw this thread and seems like your mind is made up, but Iíll chime in anyway.
I donít think itís a bad deal. If you love it, get it for whatever close to the sellers asking price is. FWIW, my classic SG 9mm is a high option gun complete gun and small parts high polish Baron blue and wouldnít take 5k if it was for sale.
The time to buy it is when you see it..Just my .02.
Best of luck in your search..:rock:

Rembrandt 02-24-2020 06:06 PM

I've been looking for a Super Grade for some time, bought one a couple months ago that the previous owner had only put four rounds thru it. Got it for $3800 which I thought was a good buy. Low mileage SG's don't show up very often, felt very fortunate to get it and for that price.

azguy1911 02-25-2020 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjpaxton (Post 13076960)
The High-End market is very soft. I have been tracking SuperGrade sales for about 3 years now.

I patiently waited for a good deal on mine. I found a 2017 Tactical Supergrade exactly as I wanted. It was for sale by a private seller for several months. I finally made an offer and I negotiated to 40% off the MSRP.

There are better deals out there than settling for $5,000. These aren't selling anywhere near new pricing from a private seller.

There's a Classic SG on the usual on-line auction site. It's been for sale for at least 2 years at $4,000. It's listed as Brand-New, the starting bid with "No Reserve" has recently dropped to $3,800 and no one even bids on it. All it takes is one bid and it can be had for $3,800.

A Classic SG just sold on said on-line auction site 2 weeks ago after one bid of $3,800 and that one has upgraded flush & crowned barrel and shortened slide stop pin and recessed frame.

The market puts that Classic SG at about 4K. No More..

This man knows his stuff :)


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