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-   -   New flashlight hold (https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=1005014)

Striker2237 12-03-2019 10:12 PM

New flashlight hold
 
Im trying to develop a faster more consistent first shot technique for low/no light. Here's a video of me messing around from today, I welcome all suggestions since my goal is under two seconds consistently.

https://youtu.be/U7iWTItj9no

dsk 12-03-2019 10:45 PM

In a real-world low-light shooting situation the goal isn't really shot speed, it's about rapid target ID and acquisition. You must properly identify if it's a friend or foe before you fire. If you have the entire range to yourself you should put up targets in all lanes with random numbers on them. Have the guy with the shot timer call out one of those numbers, and see how fast you can find the target with that number on it then fire and hit said target. Simply seeing how fast you can flick on a flashlight and blast a target in front of you doesn't really correlate with anything.

Striker2237 12-03-2019 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsk (Post 13001806)
In a real-world low-light shooting situation the goal isn't about shot speed, it's about rapid target ID and acquisition. If you have the entire range to yourself you should put up targets in all lanes with random numbers on them. Have the guy with the shot timer call out one of those numbers, and see how fast you can find the target with that number on it then fire and hit said target. Simply seeing how fast you can flick on a flashlight and blast a target in front of you doesn't really correlate with anything.

Takes me about .2 more to ID, doesn't slow me much at all hence why I'm just doing it on one right now to try and figure stuff out. I don't think what I'm doing is useless since I have to be able to see the sights and target properly to hit after all.

I usually do what you mentioned standing in front of the line with a rifle though so next time I'll do it with a handgun. Great suggestion, should be a lot more data from that. Thanks, I'll post up when I do that next week (I usually only have a full bay on Tuesdays when it's slow)

combat auto 12-04-2019 07:27 AM

Good vid...

This is a really good application for the SIRT laser gun (or equivalent) at home...The only thing missing is the recoil, but after all, one can practice "recoil" any time at the range, and that is not what is being tested here per se. What is being tested is the ability to manipulate your light source and gun to acquire the target while going from dark to lighted environment. DSK approach is the better of the two approaches obviously - because it adds a "shoot no shoot" decision...

SIRT, doesn't replace dry fire with a real gun, but it has a lot of uses which add lot's of value to a dry fire regime. All done from one's home, save ammo, reduce automobile pollution, help saving the planet ;-).

shooter59 12-04-2019 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsk (Post 13001806)
In a real-world low-light shooting situation the goal isn't really shot speed, it's about rapid target ID and acquisition. You must properly identify if it's a friend or foe before you fire. If you have the entire range to yourself you should put up targets in all lanes with random numbers on them. Have the guy with the shot timer call out one of those numbers, and see how fast you can find the target with that number on it then fire and hit said target. Simply seeing how fast you can flick on a flashlight and blast a target in front of you doesn't really correlate with anything.

This. Fun drill, so keep us posted, but I can see no scenario where I’d be up and poking around with both holstered light and gun, then suddenly hear a noise and start moving quickly with both. But like I said, fun drill.

1911_Kid 12-04-2019 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striker2237 (Post 13001792)
Im trying to develop a faster more consistent first shot technique for low/no light. Here's a video of me messing around from today, I welcome all suggestions since my goal is under two seconds consistently.

https://youtu.be/U7iWTItj9no

Try the same experiment but wear yellow-lime glasses.

I suspect the bright white light is hitting the back of your eye and your eye is straining some, especially when going from dark to flashlight.

Grandpas50AE 12-04-2019 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shooter59 (Post 13002128)
This. Fun drill, so keep us posted, but I can see no scenario where I’d be up and poking around with both holstered light and gun, then suddenly hear a noise and start moving quickly with both. But like I said, fun drill.

Pretty much like dsk said - real life situation you won't be drawing after you go into harm's way, but still a fun drill none the less. I can show you the technique for hand-held light in low-light shoot that Ken teaches, it is real-life practical for most situations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1911_Kid (Post 13002252)
Try the same experiment but wear yellow-lime glasses.

I suspect the bright white light is hitting the back of your eye and your eye is straining some, especially when going from dark to flashlight.

Who is going to keep a set of yellow glasses on the nightstand and don them before going to check out bumps in the night, or don them before going into a semi-dark barn or other structure during subdued daylight? Most folks are going in with what they have at an "oh crap!" moment. Find what works in "unexpected" low-light moments that you are LIKELY to respond with. JMHO.

TRSOtto 12-04-2019 08:43 PM

That Carry Comp is hardly jumping in your hand.........

I'm intrigued.........

Striker2237 12-04-2019 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRSOtto (Post 13002626)
That Carry Comp is hardly jumping in your hand.........

I'm intrigued.........

Like I've mentioned, it literally doesn't come off target lol! Come shoot it, I'll give you the gun and a spread of ammo at my range for you to go nuts with. I was using full power S&B [email protected] FPS, not as good as a 185+P or 230+P but softer to the point it's easy to use.

Striker2237 12-04-2019 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandpas50AE (Post 13002364)
Pretty much like dsk said - real life situation you won't be drawing after you go into harm's way, but still a fun drill none the less. I can show you the technique for hand-held light in low-light shoot that Ken teaches, it is real-life practical for most situations.



Who is going to keep a set of yellow glasses on the nightstand and don them before going to check out bumps in the night, or don them before going into a semi-dark barn or other structure during subdued daylight? Most folks are going in with what they have at an "oh crap!" moment. Find what works in "unexpected" low-light moments that you are LIKELY to respond with. JMHO.

I would really appreciate if you taught me that, I realize that most of the time the light would already be out or in hand but I trying to work on if for some reason I need to pull both. Never worked on it before so I wanted to fill the gap.

Reloader 12-05-2019 03:06 AM

Maybe I missed it - what was the "technique"? It seemed that the flashlight was held by the head - or somewhere out of sight and the gun hand extended to make the shot. If so, I think that is called the turret stance, versus the Harries, FBI (maybe generic police), gun mounted light, or Rogers forms.

Or was this simply practicing a technique new to you?

J Scott 12-05-2019 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRSOtto (Post 13002626)
That Carry Comp is hardly jumping in your hand.........

I'm intrigued.........

Me, too.

Grandpas50AE 12-05-2019 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striker2237 (Post 13002714)
I would really appreciate if you taught me that, I realize that most of the time the light would already be out or in hand but I trying to work on if for some reason I need to pull both. Never worked on it before so I wanted to fill the gap.

Can do at the Bash. There are actually three different techniques, and I can show you all three.:)

Striker2237 12-05-2019 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reloader (Post 13002840)
Maybe I missed it - what was the "technique"? It seemed that the flashlight was held by the head - or somewhere out of sight and the gun hand extended to make the shot. If so, I think that is called the turret stance, versus the Harries, FBI (maybe generic police), gun mounted light, or Rogers forms.

Or was this simply practicing a technique new to you?

New to me since I primarily use a WML or have the light in my hand already then combine into the Rogers hold. Problem was I was finding that unless the light was already in my left hand I could not consistently get the Rogers to work and that I wasn't entirely happy with the sight lighting situation.

If I have something with a WML it's easy and nothing changes vs a normal draw, if the light is in my hand it's also fine but the sights are harder to use since all that's visible is the outline and maybe the vials. I was trying to figure out something that allows better view of the sights and is consistent every time without a WML since I don't prefer to conceal carry one.

1911_Kid 12-05-2019 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandpas50AE (Post 13002364)

Who is going to keep a set of yellow glasses on the nightstand and don them before going to check out bumps in the night, or don them before going into a semi-dark barn or other structure during subdued daylight? Most folks are going in with what they have at an "oh crap!" moment. Find what works in "unexpected" low-light moments that you are LIKELY to respond with. JMHO.

The scenario was not the question. The question was "any suggestions".
If you don't like the glasses recommendation, then put a filter on the flashlight (change the light color, etc). You dont need a bright white flashlight, a not-so-bright yellow-lime light is better for this scenario. If the goal is to quickly give away your position and to perhaps "blind" the perp, white strobe would be my choice, which I have available to me with button on back of my Fenix.

DubfromGa 12-08-2019 07:37 AM

Certainly a scenario where real world training and repetition will reveal the "weak-link" aspects of a shooter's tendencies.

I don't think that this exact scenario is one that would pertain to me because I don't anticipate a time where I'd be going from both hands empty, to both hands drawing a light + gun + getting off timed shot.

I can see where I'd be in the dark and drawing a light and employing it. The gun being drawn and brought to the party would be a separate act....once the decision was made that it was needed.


* I do see value in your drilling this in keeping the hand/arm deploying the light well out of the path of the gun's sweep.

* After drawing & aiming the gun I can safely reposition my light bearing hand/arm to better support & brace my gun grip.


What I want to train / drill / practice is:
1) light drawn and deployed: from pocket, belt or holster.
2) light bearing hand pulled back against sternum as gun hand reaches for drawing weapon
3) gun drawn and "aimed" as light bearing hand stays pressed against sternum.
4) Light bearing hand repositions from sternum out to support gun bearing hand and assist with maintaining secure integrated hold + aiming of weapon & light.


All the above being said.....I've had no formal hands-on training and haven't benefited from actual coursework. I'm just wanting to make things safe while engraining a natural repetition to my process.


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