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-   -   Would gun seizures lead to civil war? (https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=1010020)

cavelamb 02-15-2020 12:33 AM

Would gun seizures lead to civil war?
 
Quote:

“We’re not taking anyone’s legal guns, we’re just changing the law so the guns are illegal
and then we will take them.”

But that doesn’t matter to politicians who are crusading against guns the way Temperance
activists crusaded for Prohibition a hundred years ago.

Assault-weapons laws resemble hate-speech laws.

Hate-speech laws usually begin by targeting a few words that almost no one approves of.

Once the system for controlling and punishing “hate speech” is put into place, there is little
or nothing to stop it from expanding to punish more and more types of everyday speech.

Similarly, once an assault-weapons law is on the books, there is little to prevent politicians
from vastly increasing the number of weapons banned under the law.
https://www.blacklistednews.com/arti...-to-civil.html

shooter59 02-15-2020 12:40 AM

No, because it’s not going to happen.

Do I think we’re in for more restrictive gun laws being passed.....yes.

The rank and file reservist, guard member, active duty, as well as rank and file LEO will disobey any such orders to confiscate.

I know it’s popular, and possibly prudent to consider those scenarios, but the left wing nuts will be very sad when any such orders are met with widespread displays of the figurative middle finger.

megafiddle 02-15-2020 12:56 AM

Gun seizure, if it happens, won't happen "en masse". There are too many guns, and too few "confiscators".

I seriously doubt that there will be SWAT teams or national guard squadrons going door to door looking for illegal guns. I suspect the guns will be removed on an individual basis as they are discovered. What would be very troubling is some type of "red flag law" that allowed anyone to identify a gun owner.

With the vast number of gun owners united, we would win hands down.

At some smaller number, it might become a standoff; some loses, some wins.

At very small numbers, we lose.

-

combat auto 02-15-2020 06:13 AM

As I posted several times, this will always be a Political-War in the main, with possible skirmishes involving violence from time to time. This Political-War, and it is a civil war in its own way will never end, not in this country anyway.

Here is why:
1) It seems to be "genetically-coded" ;-) into the human species that roughly 40% of them believe in individualism and 40% believe in collectivism, less individual right, significant government control. The other 20% don't know WTH they believe (#'s meant for illustrative purposes, not exact #'s obviously).
2) Hence the other 40+% are here, embedded with us, part of our society and always will always be with us.
3) Even in the fanciful-hypothetical, if a CW victory was won, how are you going to maintain it without stopping the other 40+% from voting and hence re-starting the entire cycle??? Will you lock all lefty's up? Ship them to a desert island? Take their voting rights away? Amended the constitution so that no Lefty Politicians can run??? You see how ridiculous this quickly becomes.

Is there a potential for violence? Yes, one possible place is in VA later this year and into the next. The Patriots may need to defend themselves from unlawful government violent action. We have a true and distinct clash of cutlers there, no incrementalism, one of the most free gun states, trying to be converted to one of the most gun-hate states in just 6 months...VA patriots always have to make sure that they only respond in SD, never start violence.

Another hypothetical which might spark violence is if the Lefty takes all 3 branches say 2024 or beyond (God forbid) and starts sweeping Gun-Control at the federal level. But again, the violence the government might administer to force unconstitutional gun laws across the country and the resulting SD action of Patriot Gun owners will be the ancillary story. It may push the Lefty back on their heels some and give them incentive not to actually enforce laws (which can be considered an accomplishment), but in the end, in this war, (most) power will be politically.

A third scenario, the place becoming like Venezuela might be the scenario where a SHTF scenario is resolved like a shoot out CW. This would take the Lefty owning all 3 branches and many years before we reach the point where most people (not just gun owners) had enough and get out in the street. Venezuela took some 10 years (guess?) to get to that point, but with our multifaceted huge economy it will likely take 20-30 years of total lefty control. So this scenario isn't going to happen anytime soon.

So don't sit around waiting for the SHTF to resolve this dynamic, go out and expand the republican tent, just like POTUS is working so hard to do now. Get that ~20% in the middle to lean to the right for good.

And as a side note, for the few uninformed on the forum who think POTUS isn't doing anything for 2A, think again - these are the "Probiotics" which will help keep our country healthy:

-Added ~25% of conservative judges to the Federal Judiciary.
-Having great success with the wall and tariff threats on Mexico to dramatically slow the flow of illegal immigration.
-Working hard to expand the ONLY PRO-2A party by expanding the tent to blacks, Hispanics, Catholics, etc.
And there are many other things I could add to this list.

These are key things which establish an infrastructure for the Constitution as we love it and 2A to survive. Being focused on giving up bump stocks is like a child being mad at his parents because they took candy away from him and replaced it with a healthy balanced meal.

Jolly Rogers 02-15-2020 06:56 AM

Thoughtful post sir.
Joe

HarryO45 02-15-2020 06:56 AM

In some parts of the country no... in other parts of the country yes.

Nitro.45 02-15-2020 07:12 AM

Red Flags ass!
You call on me, Iíll burn your house down!
Thatís what it will come down to. There will be retaliation toward the gun fearing libtard at the end of the block that fabricates crap. There will be several examples of this before itís said and done. Get off my grass dammit!

wccountryboy 02-15-2020 07:26 AM

Ahhh, the subject of insurgency, my bread and butter...
I don't think there will be an armed insurgency over gun rights. The math just isn't there to support it, nor are their strong national pro 2A leaders.
While its popular on gun sites to pound ones chest and talk about how you'll stand and fight, the securities and comforts of life, and the stability of family isn't something one will easily sacrifice. Americans are not made of the same stuff as they were in 1775...
The Mk 1 Mod 0 defense to this is "I'm staying and fighting "... its nonsense. In the last 5 years (probably more) there have been exactly zero pro 2A victories or headway in places like CA, NJ, NY, CT, etc. Lots of significant losses, and greater infringement. We have members in such places, and they stay.... there is no "fight", those places are wholly and completely lost. People stay primarily for $, but also for comfortable familiarity, climate, family... if they're not willing to accept any of these with no physical risk, why would one believe that they'd sacrifice all of that AND put themselves in harms way as well?
I agree with the "probiotics " (great simile by the way) as some secondary and tircerary things that may be of benefit. However, probiotics don't inoculate one from or cure cancer. They may make you a little mor comfortable, buy you a few extra days or weeks, but the end is the same. Cancer requires decisive, aggressive treatment; that hasn't happened at the National level.

Ranger566 02-15-2020 07:27 AM

Whoa. Some good posts already. This is going to be a l-o-n-g thread! :)

A couple of reminders:

*** POTUS has already checked in on his support at his last SOTU speech, which if true, will last for at worst case the next 9 months, and at best case for the next 4 years and 9 months......"My administration will always protect your rights under the 2d Amendment" (or something close to that).

***We can't get discouraged by worrying about what effect the MSM is having on this subject. They control the public dialogue, and will for the foreseeable future. We'll get our very tiny portion of the debate pie, but their bully pulpit and slanting everything in their favor will always work against us.

I kept seeing LOTS of "WE WILL NOT COMPLY" signs at the Virginia rally. When and if the green light goes on, it'll be jump or get out of the way for those who will.

RLTW

FNHipowerluv 02-15-2020 07:33 AM

If you pay attention to current politics, there are many things that could start a war. Gun confiscation would be more of a symptom of a conflict coming than a cause of it.

mkk41 02-15-2020 07:34 AM

No.

Most Americans are too fat , dumb and comfortable and will simply comply and hand 'em over.

Vos Parate 02-15-2020 09:25 AM

I wouldn’t have believed Americans would vote against beer in the 20s and everybody loves beer.

Vos Parate 02-15-2020 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FNHipowerluv (Post 13068542)
If you pay attention to current politics, there are many things that could start a war. Gun confiscation would be more of a symptom of a conflict coming than a cause of it.

Virginia? When the POS liberal retard Democraps take over, gun control first baby!

HT77 02-15-2020 09:49 AM

While our focus is on the threat to gun rights, we have to keep in mind, that particular threat is just a symptom of a much bigger and ominous mind set. Progressives want to control every aspect of what you think, say, and do. You can't separate the gun issue from the rest of what they want. It is a mostly non-violent cultural civil war right now and the battle lines are being drawn between groups that want less freedom and those who want to restore it. Unfortunately the government is now involved trying to define for us who and what the threats are, but they are lying. This is the start of totalitarianism and if it isn't dealt with soon there will be nothing left worth fighting for anyway.

The War Wagon 02-15-2020 09:52 AM

Yes.


/thread

jjfitch 02-15-2020 10:19 AM

Gun confiscation will occur, slowly....like boiling the frog!

We're seeing the reality of boiling the frog as Islam and Shirai Law are taking over communities in just about every state. It happened with communism starting with socialism.

Those who wish to change culture know time is on their. Sooner or later the constituency drink the Coolade! Guaranteed!

No smiles,

Me, all my firearms and ammunition were lost in that terrible boating accident! Who knew that stuff would sink that fast?

cavelamb 02-15-2020 10:24 AM

Interesting to see the range of opinions presented.
But there are times when I really wish people would actually read the links.

There is some interesting stuff presented there.

Quote:

Any vigorous attempt to forcibly commandeer millions of weapons will result
in clashes that the government will sometimes lose — especially given the
record of police who either freeze up or cower in crisis situations, such as
the Parkland School shooting, the Las Vegas Mandalay Hotel carnage, and
the Orlando Pulse Nightclub massacre.

Any attempt to enforce widespread gun confiscation will require suspending
Americans’ constitutional right to trial by jury.

An Idaho jury found Ruby Ridge defendants not guilty: “Government witnesses
cause case to collapse,” a Washington Post headline later declared.

In 1994, a Texas jury rejected charges that Branch Davidians were guilty of
murdering federal agents in a verdict the New York Times described as a
“stunning defeat” for the feds.

Juries in Montana, for instance, might resist convicting firearms violators the way
that Massachusetts juries in the 1850s often refused to enforce the Fugitive Slave Act.

Juries would not defer to the assertion of federal agents whom some people viewed
as the equivalent of foreign invaders.

mkk41 02-15-2020 10:24 AM

The political agenda to severely 're-interpret' the Constitution and Bill of Rights is no secret. By force if necessary. The America we grew up in is going , going , , , , , :(

combat auto 02-15-2020 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavelamb (Post 13068712)
Interesting to see the range of opinions presented.
But there are times when I really wish people would actually read the links.

There is some interesting stuff presented there.


Yes, along the lines of my post...There is a potential for violent skirmishes, but it will remain mainly a political war...And as I also say it is very important that the Gun Community doesn't start any violence. Jury's will not be so kind if we look like the bad guys.

VA will be the most important acid test to date as to if a civilian coalition (with support of local sheriffs) can resist a totalitarian run State, well, well, beyond the examples in the article. No state to date has accomplished what the Patriots in VA have so far. And I pray there will be no violence started by the Evil-Governor of that state.

What is your opinion?

HT77 02-15-2020 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combat auto (Post 13068764)
Yes, along the lines of my post...There will be violent skirmishes, but it will remain mainly a political war...And as I also say it is very important that the Gun Community doesn't start any violence. Jury's will not be so kind if we look like the bad guys.

But does it really matter at this point? The media has already cast us as the bad guys even if massive injustice is done to us. We are all neo-nazi militiamen who deserve the worst punishment. Unfortunately our justice system has become so politicized already as we are seeing daily in the federal system.

combat auto 02-15-2020 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HT77 (Post 13068774)
But does it really matter at this point? The media has already cast us as the bad guys even if massive injustice is done to us. We are all neo-nazi militiamen who deserve the worst punishment. Unfortunately our justice system has become so politicized already as we are seeing daily in the federal system.

Its a mess no doubt...No guarantees...But best to put odds in ones favor by not starting the violence (of course). It will depend on the state to some degree, but don't count on the vast majority people actually believing what the media wants people to believe. If that were true, POTUS would have never made it to POTUS. Loons will be loons but there is still about 1/2 the country who are not loons.

dsk 02-15-2020 11:36 AM

For mass confiscation to happen, not only must the Second Amendment be repealed but also the Fourth Amendment as well. Unfortunately with the rise of socialism in this country the day may soon come when we have a leftist government who actually does that.

HT77 02-15-2020 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsk (Post 13068788)
For mass confiscation to happen, not only must the Second Amendment be repealed but also the Fourth Amendment as well. Unfortunately with the rise of socialism in this country the day may soon come when we have a leftist government who actually does that.

Not necessarily. Remember we have today 4 members of the USSC who believe the 2A does not apply to individual gun rights. Theoretically, if one more Leftist judge is added, the 2A could effectively be eliminated without actually repealing it. This is what I feared from a Hillary presidency.

SC shooter 02-15-2020 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HT77 (Post 13068774)
But does it really matter at this point? The media has already cast us as the bad guys even if massive injustice is done to us. We are all neo-nazi militiamen who deserve the worst punishment. Unfortunately our justice system has become so politicized already as we are seeing daily in the federal system.

I think the media is our biggest enemy without their dishonest steady stream of propaganda the left would not have the strong foothold they hold in our government. If they had always been honest and reported the truth many of the leftist leaders would have been defeated or imprisoned for their corruption.


War or no war I will not comply with any unconstitutional laws passed by lying corrupt leftist who would gladly imprison me just because I don't vote the way they want me to. If you allow yourself to be disarmed by these people you will be at their mercy and I really don't think they have any.

USMM guy 02-15-2020 12:09 PM

Well it appears that they are not wasting much time.
 
In demonizing the sanctuary localities. Funny thing that nobody said anything about the sanctuaries for illegals until now.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opini...dF?ocid=msn360


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