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-   -   bolt action 30 carbine (https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=1002584)

pocketshaver 10-25-2019 11:00 AM

bolt action 30 carbine
 
Just surprised that no one has made a bolt action 30 carbine yet.

dfariswheel 10-25-2019 02:59 PM

Before tooling up to make something like a bolt action in .30 Carbine, you first have to do a market study to figure out IF there's a market for it.

I suspect that there aren't that many people willing to buy a rather odd ball firearm like this.
Few gun companies can afford to build a low sales specialty rifle that would have little market.

USMM guy 10-25-2019 08:24 PM

This is correct.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dfariswheel (Post 12971800)
Before tooling up to make something like a bolt action in .30 Carbine, you first have to do a market study to figure out IF there's a market for it.

I suspect that there aren't that many people willing to buy a rather odd ball firearm like this.
Few gun companies can afford to build a low sales specialty rifle that would have little market.

A bolt gun in .30 carbine would likely have about as much appeal as a bolt gun in 32 WCF, Another one that nobody is really clamoring for.

dsk 10-25-2019 09:39 PM

The problem is with the .30 Carbine round itself. Other than M1 Carbine owners there is virtually no demand for it. It may have been a good idea at the time when the Army needed a light rifle but there are so many other well-established calibers that perform better.

Reloader 10-26-2019 04:42 AM

At least one custom TC Encore barrel maker lists the 30 Carbine. Would seem to imply there is some sort of interest outside the M1 Carbines.

I do doubt that a bolt action would be a real market success.

hardluk1 10-26-2019 06:09 AM

Don't over look the Ruger model 77/357mag and a 44 version . A 125gr 357mag can easily manage 2300fps plus with very average factory ammo so not much for the 30 carbine to even match as a plinker or as a hunter or shoot cheaper .

M-Peltier 10-26-2019 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketshaver (Post 12971652)
Just surprised that no one has made a bolt action 30 carbine yet.

Why?

Don Flynn 10-26-2019 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reloader (Post 12972192)
At least one custom TC Encore barrel maker lists the 30 Carbine. Would seem to imply there is some sort of interest outside the M1 Carbines.

I do doubt that a bolt action would be a real market success.

That's probably a leftover from when surplus .30 Carbine ammo was cheap and plentiful. Ruger also offered the Blackhawk in .30 Carbine IIRR but you don't many of those.

FNHipowerluv 10-26-2019 08:12 AM

Marlin built the Levermatic in 30 carbine (as well as the failed 256 Win mag). Performance of the 30 Carbine is similar to that of a 357 magnum. Aside from the Levematic, TC Encore, and the M1 Carbine, your choices for 30 Carbine long guns are pretty limited. There are plenty of 357 magnum options though.

scubadad 10-26-2019 05:14 PM

I would like to see a 357 semi auto rifle. Yes I know 30 carbine is similar but I have multiple 357's so for me it makes sense.

Hate to admit that I passed on a sweet deal for a m1 carbine. My need for a light weight mag fed garand style action is already filled by my mini 14.

Tom Freeman 10-26-2019 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketshaver (Post 12971652)
Just surprised that no one has made a bolt action 30 carbine yet.

I am not at all surprised that no one has.

Too many other calibers that fill the role of a low-medium powered 30 caliber.

Reloader 10-26-2019 06:41 PM

You could always convert a Mini 14 or AR or such to a rimless 357 Magnum, ala 350 Legend (or 223) cases trimmed to Magnum length. A handloading task, but 357 Magnum ballistics. Perhaps nicer than working with the rim of the Magnum cases. Magazines may need some sort of modification.

dsk 10-26-2019 09:02 PM

The .30 Carbine has too many things going against it to be taken seriously either as a pistol round OR a rifle cartridge. It's way too long to be practical in semi-auto pistols, but it's also rimless which makes it less than optimal in revolvers. It is a straight-walled cartridge and was designed to use round-nosed, FMJ bullets which nobody outside the Hague Convention ever thought was a great idea. Virtually all serious rifle calibers are bottlenecked and use pointed Spitzer bullets. That's not to say that the .30 Carbine is useless, for a JHP version like Hornady's Critical Defense makes for an excellent short-range home or ranch defense rifle, and can be used for small game hunting as well. Unfortunately beyond that there's nothing it can do that other calibers can't so it will likely die off if/when all those M1 Carbines out there finally do.

Don Flynn 10-26-2019 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsk (Post 12972824)
The .30 Carbine has too many things going against it to be taken seriously either as a pistol round OR a rifle cartridge. It's way too long to be practical in semi-auto pistols, but it's also rimless which makes it less than optimal in revolvers. It is a straight-walled cartridge and was designed to use round-nosed, FMJ bullets which nobody outside the Hague Convention ever thought was a great idea. Virtually all serious rifle calibers are bottlenecked and use pointed Spitzer bullets. That's not to say that the .30 Carbine is useless, for a JHP version like Hornady's Critical Defense makes for an excellent short-range home or ranch defense rifle, and can be used for small game hunting as well. Unfortunately beyond that there's nothing it can do that other calibers can't so it will likely die off if/when all those M1 Carbines out there finally do.

Hush on that, I've too many M-1 Carbines in the safe.

It'll be the same as the FN P-90 and it's 5.7MM round, designed for a specific weapon and then used on a limited basis by FN on some handgun designs to try and sell the round. Luckily for me I doubt the interest in M-1 Carbines dies out in my lifetime unless the left wins the gun ban wars and bans all semi auto rifles.

I expect it'll end up costing my heirs what it costs me to feed the 1876 Winchester 45-70 that's been in my family since 1899...$2.00-4.00 bucks a round and it'll sit in their safes

pocketshaver 10-27-2019 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsk (Post 12972824)
The .30 Carbine has too many things going against it to be taken seriously either as a pistol round OR a rifle cartridge. It's way too long to be practical in semi-auto pistols, but it's also rimless which makes it less than optimal in revolvers. It is a straight-walled cartridge and was designed to use round-nosed, FMJ bullets which nobody outside the Hague Convention ever thought was a great idea. Virtually all serious rifle calibers are bottlenecked and use pointed Spitzer bullets. That's not to say that the .30 Carbine is useless, for a JHP version like Hornady's Critical Defense makes for an excellent short-range home or ranch defense rifle, and can be used for small game hunting as well. Unfortunately beyond that there's nothing it can do that other calibers can't so it will likely die off if/when all those M1 Carbines out there finally do.

oooooohhhh boy. Just because is tooo long for a semi automatic its a bad cartridge? If desert eagle can make a semi auto feed a 44 magnum, and Coonan can make a version of 1911 that feeds a 357 magnum.. That's a moot point.

Tom Freeman 10-27-2019 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketshaver (Post 12972908)
oooooohhhh boy. Just because is tooo long for a semi automatic its a bad cartridge? If desert eagle can make a semi auto feed a 44 magnum, and Coonan can make a version of 1911 that feeds a 357 magnum.. That's a moot point.

Desert Eagles and Coonans suck to shoot. Not comfortable at all.

Coonans dont run with anything less than full power loads.

FNHipowerluv 10-27-2019 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Freeman (Post 12972998)
Desert Eagles and Coonans suck to shoot. Not comfortable at all.

Coonans dont run with anything less than full power loads.

Buying a Coonan and running low power loads is like ordering sports car with a 4 cylinder engine.

In all seriousness, 10mm is probably the best compromise for big bore autoloaders. Everything else is either comically large, or finicky.

Like dsk said, the 30 carbine is niche round, that isn't ideal for anything. It is the akward middle man between handgun rounds, and intermediate rifle rounds. An AKM is only 1 pound heavier than an M1 carbine, and fires a much more effective round. There is a plethora of capable rounds for bolt guns. Limiting yourself to the anemic 30 carbine would make zero sense unless you had a mountain of it in your house.

jjfitch 10-27-2019 10:31 AM

I'm thinkin' the only appeal lookin' back 50 years was the availability on the surplus market for ammo and Carbines. Beyond that not much appeal.

I had an opportunity to shoot the Ruger 30 carbine revolver. Significant blast and flame similar to the .357 MAX!

R.I.P.,

USMM guy 10-27-2019 10:52 AM

AMT made an auto handgun in .30 carbine back in their day.
 
It was pretty short lived as only about half of them would actually run. Typical of AMT in general.

Andyk 10-27-2019 11:12 PM

According to Hornady loading book V9 the 30 carbine is one of the top 10 reloaded grounds.

Don Flynn 10-28-2019 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andyk (Post 12973638)
According to Hornady loading book V9 the 30 carbine is one of the top 10 reloaded grounds.

That would make sense. 30 Carbine can get expensive and it looks like manufactures do it in batches. Post Newtown none of them were making it, they were making "normal" rounds that were in high demand.

dsf 10-28-2019 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FNHipowerluv (Post 12972314)
Marlin built the Levermatic in 30 carbine (as well as the failed 256 Win mag). Performance of the 30 Carbine is similar to that of a 357 magnum. Aside from the Levematic, TC Encore, and the M1 Carbine, your choices for 30 Carbine long guns are pretty limited. There are plenty of 357 magnum options though.

I think those pretty much are the choices. I have all three of them and an old Ruger Blackhawk 3 screw in 30 carbine. The M1 came first, then I picked up the Marlin 62 to convince myself I should reload the 30 Carbine, something I wouldn't do with the Inland. Then I picked up the T/C because I wanted to see just how accurate the cartridge could be. The Ruger was "such a deal" I couldn't say no.

I may have a gun buying problem ..:bawling:

earlwb 10-29-2019 06:14 PM

The .327 Federal cartridge offers similar performance to the .30 carbine and they do chamber some lever action rifles in .327 Federal as well as some handguns too.

You could rebarrel a CZ 550 into .30 Carbine. The .22 Hornet version of the CZ 550 would be a good candidate as you would need to do very little to get it working. Now then there have been some people who built .30 carbine bolt action rifles from some of the old military bolt actions. So it can be done.

But as mentioned there just is no demand or market for .30 carbine guns.

OH YEAH, one thought i just had was you could use a chamber insert for .30 carbine in a bolt action rifle. They make them in several calibers like .30-06, .308Win, etc.

FNHipowerluv 10-30-2019 05:53 PM

If you plug the gas port on a m1 carbine, you have a straight pull 30 Carbine bolt action. I wouldn't recommend doing that though.

emptymag 10-30-2019 09:20 PM

Just load .30 Carbine into a Hi-Point 9mm carbine by hand...
I can't imagine it will cycle the empties,
so "bingo-bango"... straight-pull .30 Carbine 'bolt gun'!


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