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-   -   Something I have noticed about women and the EZ (https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=1008074)

WaterDR 01-20-2020 08:17 AM

Something I have noticed about women and the EZ
 
As an instructor, guns like the EZ are very popular and for good reason. Seems as though everyone is looking for the perfect formula of low recoil, big boom, and easy to rack.

Great idea!

But, I have started to see a problem with these platforms. They seem to be more susceptible to not go into full battery. So much so, that with those using these guns, rather than teaching tap, rack, bang I am teaching “tap, bang” which instead of tapping the magazine, I think it makes more sense to tap the slide. Which of course, is not consistent across other platforms.

Also, some of these slides are so easy to manipulate that you can push them back with your pinky. GREAT. Until the gun is used in close quarters and gets pushed out of battery.

Enough of an issue to NOT buy the gun? No. But something to consider.

flechero 01-20-2020 08:39 AM

your observations confirmed my suspicions
 
I had some of those concerns when buying the ez9. My purchase was as a training aid... to help wife, mother-in-law and young son get reps and safely work on manipulating it so that stepping into a "regular" gun will be an easy transition.

magazineman 01-20-2020 10:03 AM

I have the EZ38. It never jams.

It's a J Frame :)

Btw, my Kahr .380 was easy to rack but it too would sometimes fail to go fully into battery. I bought the xtra beefy springs fro Kahr and that fixed it completely.

However, the Easy Racking went away, of course.

Perhaps a flip-out finger-pull tab on the slide is the answer.

mdram 01-20-2020 10:10 AM

just ordered an ez 380 to help the wife in shooting

will be interesting how it works out

WaterDR 01-20-2020 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magazineman (Post 13043574)
I have the EZ38. It never jams.

It's a J Frame [IMG class=inlineimg]https://forums.1911forum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Btw, my Kahr .380 was easy to rack but it too would sometimes fail to go fully into battery. I bought the xtra beefy springs fro Kahr and that fixed it completely.

However, the Easy Racking went away, of course.

Perhaps a flip-out finger-pull tab on the slide is the answer.

That’s so funny! And true. Wheel guns are great and so under stated.

WaterDR 01-20-2020 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdram (Post 13043584)
just ordered an ez 380 to help the wife in shooting

will be interesting how it works out

It’s a great platform. And frankly, if it’s comfortable to her and she can it, it will more likely get used and carried if that’s the goal.

Just make sure you have the battery discussion with her. It’s an easy fix with training awareness.

Shawn6518 01-20-2020 10:58 AM

I am considering getting my wife the 9ez because of the easy slide pull. She currently has a Glock 19. But the past few years her rheumatoid arthritis has really took a toll on her and hand strength is diminishing slowly. So it's either a revolver with a hammer (to fire single action) to ease trigger pull of the ez platform. She can rack my 1911's if she first manually cocks the hammer. But she feels a 1911 isn't a good self defense gun for HER. And her being comfortable with her gun is a priority.

mdram 01-20-2020 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaterDR (Post 13043646)
Itís a great platform. And frankly, if itís comfortable to her and she can it, it will more likely get used and carried if thatís the goal.

Just make sure you have the battery discussion with her. Itís an easy fix with training awareness.

caryy? thats funny. i live in maryland

Tim Burke 01-20-2020 05:55 PM

I bet these guns are not tolerant of being shot dirty or dry.

warbird1 01-20-2020 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdram (Post 13043664)
caryy? thats funny. i live in maryland

My son lives in Maryland. You have my condolences. :(

scubadad 01-20-2020 07:36 PM

My wife has a classroom aid who is in her 70's and is looking for a home defense gun. Are they really as ez to rack as all the marketing says? Does the 9mm recoil much more than the 380?

I have not found a range that has one in the rental case.

Tim Burke 01-20-2020 07:50 PM

A 380 in a locked breech recoils very little. The first time I shot one I thought I had a squib.

AZ Husker 01-20-2020 08:02 PM

The .380 was a blessing for my wife and her arthritis. The pistol does need to be clean and lubed all the time because of the weak recoil spring. I have no idea about the 9mm.

dsk 01-20-2020 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magazineman (Post 13043574)
Btw, my Kahr .380 was easy to rack but it too would sometimes fail to go fully into battery. I bought the xtra beefy springs fro Kahr and that fixed it completely.

However, the Easy Racking went away, of course.

Perhaps a flip-out finger-pull tab on the slide is the answer.

The Kahr is one of those designs where they never really managed to get it right despite showing so much promise. Mine only functions well when I have fresh, stiff springs in it, and like you said it's hard to work the slide. As soon as the springs give in a little the slide has barely enough force to overcome the striker spring and close properly. And if you let the striker spring wear in a little you get light primer strikes! By contrast the little Ruger LCP has a light recoil spring in it and is relatively easy to rack, and yet still runs reliably. Of course it's hammer-fired, which leads me to believe that striker-fired actions aren't a good idea in small .380s. The S&W EZ is a hammer-fired design, and that likely contributes to the more successful balancing act of the springs inside it.

WaterDR 01-20-2020 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scubadad (Post 13044124)
My wife has a classroom aid who is in her 70's and is looking for a home defense gun. Are they really as ez to rack as all the marketing says? Does the 9mm recoil much more than the 380?

I have not found a range that has one in the rental case.

The slide is very easy to rack. So easy, I can push it back with my pinky. The 9 will naturally have more recoil and a little harder to rack.

WaterDR 01-20-2020 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn6518 (Post 13043656)
I am considering getting my wife the 9ez because of the easy slide pull. She currently has a Glock 19. But the past few years her rheumatoid arthritis has really took a toll on her and hand strength is diminishing slowly. So it's either a revolver with a hammer (to fire single action) to ease trigger pull of the ez platform. She can rack my 1911's if she first manually cocks the hammer. But she feels a 1911 isn't a good self defense gun for HER. And her being comfortable with her gun is a priority.

While revolvers re simple to use, I find that many of the same people who lack the strength to run a slide also have a hard time pulling the trigger on a revolver.

I would also like to make the point....and this is very important....with proper instruction there are easier ways to rack a slide.

INV136 01-21-2020 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaterDR (Post 13044238)
While revolvers re simple to use, I find that many of the same people who lack the strength to run a slide also have a hard time pulling the trigger on a revolver.

I would also like to make the point....and this is very important....with proper instruction there are easier ways to rack a slide.

MY ex wife and my daughter couldn't rack the slide on my 10mm 1911 pistols and yet they had no problem pulling the DA trigger on a full size N frame revolver. But, neither wanted a revolver. I found that my daughter could rack the slide on a 9mm 1911 pistol so I got her a DW Specialist Commander 9mm and she's very pleased with it.

Shawn6518 01-21-2020 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaterDR (Post 13044238)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn6518 (Post 13043656)
I am considering getting my wife the 9ez because of the easy slide pull. She currently has a Glock 19. But the past few years her rheumatoid arthritis has really took a toll on her and hand strength is diminishing slowly. So it's either a revolver with a hammer (to fire single action) to ease trigger pull of the ez platform. She can rack my 1911's if she first manually cocks the hammer. But she feels a 1911 isn't a good self defense gun for HER. And her being comfortable with her gun is a priority.

While revolvers re simple to use, I find that many of the same people who lack the strength to run a slide also have a hard time pulling the trigger on a revolver.

I would also like to make the point....and this is very important....with proper instruction there are easier ways to rack a slide.

I'm aware of the "across your body" method. But I'm definitely open to any suggestions. The trigger pull on a DA is why I mentioned an exposed hammer so that she could cock it manually and fire in SA mode. Although in a panic situation that could be time consuming. Mili seconds are important. In a semi automatic she would naturally carry one in the chute. So technically I could rack it and she could holster it until needed.

Boge 01-21-2020 09:57 PM

I tried to talk a woman I know out of buying one, but she refused to be trained how to rack a slide on a real gun despite her "expertise" after watching Youtube videos. Women. :rolleyes:

Shawn6518 01-21-2020 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boge (Post 13045096)
I tried to talk a woman I know out of buying one, but she refused to be trained how to rack a slide on a real gun despite her "expertise" after watching Youtube videos. Women. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://forums.1911forum.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]

As noted above, I'm open to learning easier ways for my wife to operate a typical slide. And as stated in a previous post, she has rheumatoid arthritis which really takes a toll on her grip strength. I guess lucky for you, you don't know the pain and difficulty of living with RA. So unless you are offering an easier way for me to offer her a way to use the gun she has then don't knock the apparent few options I have for her to defend herself!

Boge 01-22-2020 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn6518 (Post 13045120)
As noted above, I'm open to learning easier ways for my wife to operate a typical slide. And as stated in a previous post, she has rheumatoid arthritis which really takes a toll on her grip strength. I guess lucky for you, you don't know the pain and difficulty of living with RA. So unless you are offering an easier way for me to offer her a way to use the gun she has then don't knock the apparent few options I have for her to defend herself!

I wasn't talking about your wife so calm down.

WaterDR 01-22-2020 06:46 AM

Had a female student last night. Never shot a firearm before. She couldn’t manage the slide on a any full-size 9mm no matter what we tried. She could, however, manager a slide on a Sig 365. She loved the EZ 380.

We did not have an EZ 9 to shoot but we did have a EZ 9 to buy. She walked out of the store with the EZ 9 and is coming back in tomorrow to shoot.

I spent 3 hours with her. 2 hours in the class room. 30 mins or so on the range with 6 firearms. And 30 mins in the shop. After the range visit, there were only two guns she wanted to see...the 365 XL and the EZ 9. Yes....I could have shown her more options but it only gets confusing.

So, my thoughts on the 365 vs the EZ for women.

The 365 recoil is relatively easy to manage and so is the slide. The 365 has three major advantages over the EZ. If capacity is a concern, the 365 holds more rounds. If size is an issue, the XL and the EZ are exactly the same size but the 365 is smaller. Lastly, the XL has an optic mount option. New shooters don’t understand that as an upside.

The EZ upsides are that for those who are really challenged with racking a slide, this is the gun you want. Also, racking the 380 and the 9 side by side, I could not tell the difference. Wow. I would say that the effort to manipulate the slide is about half compared to the 365. Lastly, the EZ both 380 and 9, have the cheater buttons on the magazines just like most .22s. This may seem silly for you guys, but the upside to some shooters is a deal breaker. The EZ is also less expensive than the 365. The EZ 9 Is also easier to find ammo loads with less recoil. Surprised that they haven’t marketed EZ Ammo yet.

The woman was 60 years old. In shape. In fact, I would have guessed she was younger. She was petite and simply lacked strength. As a comparision, she also struggled with the DA on a Model 60 too. She could do it, but didn’t have any confidence in herself with it.

These EZ guns are extraordinary for the right shooter.

Shawn6518 01-22-2020 07:55 AM

Water Dr,
thanks for that review/comparison on the ez. I will definitely have her check out the .380 and the 9. She really likes the Taurus g2c 9mm. I have one and she likes the way it shoots but the slide is still a tad tough. Her Glock is "ok" for her as far as recoil. But the slide is again too tight. My concern on the ez is how do they do with 500-1000 rounds thru them? I know what "soft" springs do in a 1911 especially over time as round count goes up. I know I can replace recoil springs as they wear, but how premature will soft springs wear? And no I don't mind more often maintenance for my wife's peace of mind of having self defense tools that she's comfortable with.

RandyP 01-22-2020 08:00 AM

I'm a big fan of any innovation that puts more firearms into the hands of the law-abiding.

The EZ seems to work well enough, and IMHO the 9mm Short is just fine as a SD caliber - sure hope so since two in my carry rotation are .380's lol.

I also suspect that many SD incidents are resolved without a shot being fired and that most don't result in a running high-count gun battle?

Shawn6518 01-22-2020 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyP (Post 13045314)
I'm a big fan of any innovation that puts more firearms into the hands of the law-abiding.

The EZ seems to work well enough, and IMHO the 9mm Short is just fine as a SD caliber - sure hope so since two in my carry rotation are .380's lol.

I also suspect that many SD incidents are resolved without a shot being fired and that most don't result in a running high-count gun battle?

Agreed, .380 is sufficient. Typically SD would be within 10 ft so no need for a large round. James bond carried a .380. Lol.


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