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-   -   Virginia counties to secede? (https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=1008378)

jamiesaun 01-24-2020 11:27 AM

Virginia counties to secede?
 
Super interesting idea. Doubt it would actually happen, but we can hope.

Then there's the other side, saying maybe this would be giving up, and perhaps they're right. I haven't made up my mind yet.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/wes...es-gun-control

toodeepsam 01-24-2020 11:53 AM

Secession is a strong word. It violates the ideals and possibly some laws of this nation.

But, when your government becomes your opponent, and your opponent changes the rules constantly to benefit his game plan, well, I believe the gander as well may benefit from that which has been bestowed upon the goose.

Elections have consequences, but so do actions.
The government should think before they act.

Jolly Rogers 01-24-2020 12:09 PM

When West Virginia was created from western counties of Virginia, provisions were made to allow certain counties to vote to join WV or remain Virginia counties. The Virginia county surrounding Winchester, Fredrick county, never voted. Thus Fredrick county can legally join WV if the vote is taken and passes.
West Virginia has always been happy to welcome Fredrick to the State.
Joe

Colt191145 01-24-2020 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamiesaun (Post 13047108)
Super interesting idea. Doubt it would actually happen, but we can hope.

Then there's the other side, saying maybe this would be giving up, and perhaps they're right. I haven't made up my mind yet.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/wes...es-gun-control


Secession happened before, don't think for one second that it can't happen again 170 years later.

jamiesaun 01-24-2020 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colt191145 (Post 13047134)
Succession happened before, don't think for one second that it can't happen again 170 years later.

Agreed

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

shooter59 01-24-2020 02:49 PM

JMO.....but today’s a lot different than 170 years ago.

New governments are stupid expensive. Additionally, everyone is tied to too much fed money.

No one wants to go it alone once they see the price tag.

jjfitch 01-24-2020 02:56 PM

The heading needs to be fixed...no thanks to spell check!

The political hacks in VA don't understand the rich history surrounding individual rights, the Constitution and the 2A. And the sleeping dog they are about to wake up!

Important Founding Fathers from VA include G. Washington, T. Jefferson and G. Mason.

If these guys sound familiar but their involvement escapes you please take the time to read their biographies. These will open the doors to an adventure you won't regret and ground you in the love of country and freedom that we should all embrace!

All the best in 2020,

USMM guy 01-24-2020 04:21 PM

When we succeed in driving these aparatchiks out.
 
And back under the rocks from where they came. Then we should consider that we are at least somewhat successful in our campaign for righteousness. At that point It will no longer be necessary for us to consider secession.

MAG-63 01-24-2020 06:13 PM

"Succeed" in what?

Old Grey Hare 01-24-2020 07:38 PM

Been thinking on this subject for a while. We all think -- in varying degrees -- that a civil war is likely unavoidable unless a mass outbreak of common sense happens soon.

If there is one, I'm not quite sure it would be states abandoning the Union to establish a new Confederacy... the way I see, it, the Union could choose to eject the miscreant states proactively.

What I"m getting at is, I don't want the Stars and Bars to be the symbol of the Right. I want it to be the Stars and Stripes -- because that's the flag that we earned the last time we had to eject tyrants from these shores.

Symbols will matter. I refuse to have the Left take Old Glory. **** no.

FNHipowerluv 01-24-2020 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Grey Hare (Post 13047428)
Been thinking on this subject for a while. We all think -- in varying degrees -- that a civil war is likely unavoidable unless a mass outbreak of common sense happens soon.

If there is one, I'm not quite sure it would be states abandoning the Union to establish a new Confederacy... the way I see, it, the Union could choose to eject the miscreant states proactively.

What I"m getting at is, I don't want the Stars and Bars to be the symbol of the Right. I want it to be the Stars and Stripes -- because that's the flag that we earned the last time we had to eject tyrants from these shores.

Symbols will matter. I refuse to have the Left take Old Glory. **** no.

I agree. The old Confederacy was created by angry Democrats that didn't approve of the concept of freedom for every man. Today's Democrats are the same, whether they realize it or not. The condition of inner-cities today should be a clear indicator of how much they really care about the descendants of the slaves their own party tried to prevent from being free.

The left should form their own nation, with their own inclusive flag. It could be the democracy they've always dreamed of. We could keep being the land of the free, and fly the stars and stripes with pride.

LW McVay 01-24-2020 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAG-63 (Post 13047338)
"Succeed" in what?

:confused:

brickeyee 01-25-2020 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colt191145 (Post 13047134)
Secession happened before, don't think for one second that it can't happen again 170 years later.

The Dumbs are trying to start Civil War II.
Guess they want to try again.

No Expert 01-25-2020 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FNHipowerluv (Post 13047512)
The left should form their own nation, with their own inclusive flag. It could be the democracy they've always dreamed of. We could keep being the land of the free, and fly the stars and stripes with pride.

A flag with a big boot stomping on the subjects in chains!

mdellis49 01-25-2020 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LW McVay (Post 13047578)
:confused:

I spit coffee across the LR laughing so hard:biglaugh::biglaugh:

USMM guy 01-25-2020 08:03 PM

These worshippers of all that is evil.
 
They do not have the sand to cross the Rubicon.

HT77 01-29-2020 08:53 AM

The sanctuary movement has spread to other states although it's still mostly symbolic. What these counties next need to do is show real unity and form an alliance of some sort with a strong single statement of what they believe and what they will do to protect the Constitution.

Ranger566 01-29-2020 09:23 AM

***Nice of the WVA Governor to welcome Virginians, and anyone else, to move to his great state. Not very practical for most, but hey.....

***IIRC, the voter turn-out percentage for the recent election in Virginia was 40%.

*** Instead of trying to circumvent the obvious, let's keep it as simple as possible.

***CONCERNED VIRGINIANS, ON NOVEMBER 20th, GO VOTE FOR A CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATE. ALL OF YOU!!!!! STOP MAKING EXCUSES....GET OFF YOUR BUTT AND GO VOTE!!!! :rock: (and to the Virginia GOP--- make sure that b4 the election there are qualified Conservatives on the ballots to vote for.....DUH.)

***And if you don't, reap what you sow. Again.

Game---set---match.

un lupus 01-29-2020 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranger566 (Post 13051438)
***Nice of the WVA Governor to welcome Virginians, and anyone else, to move to his great state. Not very practical for most, but hey.....

***IIRC, the voter turn-out percentage for the recent election in Virginia was 40%.

*** Instead of trying to circumvent the obvious, let's keep it as simple as possible.

***CONCERNED VIRGINIANS, ON NOVEMBER 20th, GO VOTE FOR A CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATE. ALL OF YOU!!!!! STOP MAKING EXCUSES....GET OFF YOUR BUTT AND GO VOTE!!!! :rock: (and to the Virginia GOP--- make sure that b4 the election there are qualified Conservatives on the ballots to vote for.....DUH.)

***And if you don't, reap what you sow. Again.

Game---set---match.

^^^^^Agreed^^^^^^
When 60% of the people stayed home they wrote their own epitaph .
Enter Michael Bloomberg and his bag of money to buy the election , almost everyone saw it coming and yet the voters did what they almost always do in Va. . nothing...
The Governor of Va. is and has been an idiot , yet still gets re-elected , Northam has been a dupe for Bloomberg all along .
I wonder when all the free thinking Virginians will make consequences count?

USMM guy 01-29-2020 01:07 PM

Sorry, but no Governor of the state of Virginia has ever been re-elected.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by un lupus (Post 13051538)
^^^^^Agreed^^^^^^
When 60% of the people stayed home they wrote their own epitaph .
Enter Michael Bloomberg and his bag of money to buy the election , almost everyone saw it coming and yet the voters did what they almost always do in Va. . nothing...
The Governor of Va. is and has been an idiot , yet still gets re-elected , Northam has been a dupe for Bloomberg all along .
I wonder when all the free thinking Virginians will make consequences count?

The state constitution limits governors to one term.

7.62Kolectr 01-29-2020 03:35 PM

It all started with simple talk the first time.

un lupus 01-29-2020 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USMM guy (Post 13051592)
The state constitution limits governors to one term.

You are correct , my bad .
But it's a bit hard for me to tell the difference between the last four or five knuckleheads that run that crap hole .
If a Republican ever gets to the Gov's Mansion there the GOP aught to at least pay to fumigate the place and spray some smell good in the joint to get the smell out.


Northam was the Lt. governor I believe ?

jtbull46 01-29-2020 09:30 PM

As some in the south say. "At first you dont secede try try again"

Big Pete10 01-30-2020 06:18 PM

Last time we tried to secede Lincoln tried to kill all of us and then we were under carpet bagger rule, still are to a certain extent.

USMM guy 01-30-2020 06:26 PM

Lincoln was dead six days after Appomattox.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Pete10 (Post 13053022)
Last time we tried to secede Lincoln tried to kill all of us and then we were under carpet bagger rule, still are to a certain extent.

General Sherman and a bunch of other war criminals are responsible for the lions share of debauchery. And it was secretary Staunton that largely was responsible for the totally corrupt reconstruction practices. It can be argued that ill advised reconstruction policies that inevitably led to Jim crow. That this caused far more destruction to the Southern states than the actual war did. 6-700,000 dead souls notwithstanding.

LW McVay 01-30-2020 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Pete10 (Post 13053022)
Last time we tried to secede Lincoln tried to kill all of us and then we were under carpet bagger rule, still are to a certain extent.

They wouldn't be seceding. They are simply transfering to a different state. Completely legal.

jtbull46 01-30-2020 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Pete10 (Post 13053022)
Last time we tried to secede Lincoln tried to kill all of us and then we were under carpet bagger rule, still are to a certain extent.

You did not have places like chicago to point to as exhibit A of what join the CSA back then. You could just warn what might happen. This time it wont be north south. It will be conservatives and liberals and i predict it will go down like cowboys and indians with conservatives being the cowboys.

Think of it. We hunt, shoot, fish and the other side has an issue with knowing there are only two genders and that boys have a penis and girls have a vagina. I like our odds.

As bad as things have gotten I think next time it will be until the last baby is killed type war which i hope it never comes to that, but the writing is on the wall on where our nation is headed. And if you really want to be honest who is causing it and who is using who to cause it.

partsproduction 01-31-2020 12:29 AM

Quote:

Lincoln tried to kill all of us
A lot of people died, I'll give you that, but you should read up on Lincoln, he hated every second of the "Uncivil" war, and he didn't start it, contrary to the re-writers of history.

But if there is another war it will be a continuation of the revolutionary war, the throwing out of tyrants whose aim is that of destroying Liberty.

Lincoln believed all human beings that were here legally should have Liberty, and the slavery issue was contrary to the Constitution "With Liberty and Justice for all".

Please stop equating the struggle for Liberty with that war for slavery, this struggle is to RETURN America to its foundations, not to overthrow them.

The way I see it is that a serious movement needs to be established, founded on the Constitution, on Freedom and the rights of mankind. Not rights to murder and enslave others for greed's sake, but the right to work hard and build a life, a good life that hurts no one else.
This movement needs careful planning and implementation, in all things legally per the Constitution, because we know the Founder's expected us to overthrow tyrants, so there has to be a legally declared opposition with the fall back of the righteous use of arms by all who love this country.
It's also clear that there can be no legal right to take up arms against the Constitution, so anyone who opposes the movement is a true outlaw and needs to be dealt with, with compassion if possible but with strength and determination if not.

This pathway is so clearly set before us that any other path looks stupid by comparison because we cannot negotiate away our Constitutional rights. We have to establish a new government, within the old one if possible but by any means if not, because those who oppose the Framer's ideas is a traitor, pure and simple.

I hate it that all the things I saw 60 years ago are coming to fruition, and it's happened far slower than I expected but stopping it will not happen by piecemeal activities, nor by constant preaching to the choir, we have to start thinking for the long term and be willing to sacrifice everything for Freedom. Otherwise, we may as well just give up our guns, and everything else we love, and hope death comes quickly.

combat auto 01-31-2020 05:14 AM

I don't see any analogy to the American Civil War either. The south back then was mostly run by Democrat who didn't truly believe in individual rights. The South back then was controlled by the plantation owners who wanted to maintain their power. And I don't care what one's politics or religious beliefs are today, slavery is wrong and it isn't arguable by any reasonable person...

Moreover, it is also technically flipped, back then the South was claiming state rights to maintain their hold on power, today the Lefty is claiming state-rights to take your firearms. Therefore, if you do want to use this analogy, Pro-2A would be part of Lincoln's North and the Lefty Gun-Grabbers part of the Evil-South (back then)...In essence, if you think about it, the Lefty today are the ones trying to secede from our Constitution (believing it is an outdated piece of paper). Not the other way around, just like Lincoln we (PRO-2A) are trying to preserve our Constitution. Don't let/identify-with geography (a constant) distort your perception without considering the changes in politics over the last 160+ years which is anything but a constant...

The Revolutionary war, perhaps a better analogy, but still not close enough. Then we had a foreign power we needed to through out, today, the enemy is embedded among us, they live here, it creates a much different and more challenging dynamic.

LW McVay 01-31-2020 05:31 AM

Kind of closer to Spanish Civil War....with elements of the French Revolution, the American Revolution thrown in. It would be a mess for sure.

RetiredRod 01-31-2020 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by partsproduction (Post 13053320)

The way I see it is that a serious movement needs to be established, founded on the Constitution, on Freedom and the rights of mankind. Not rights to murder and enslave others for greed's sake, but the right to work hard and build a life, a good life that hurts no one else.
This movement needs careful planning and implementation, in all things legally per the Constitution, because we know the Founder's expected us to overthrow tyrants, so there has to be a legally declared opposition with the fall back of the righteous use of arms by all who love this country.
It's also clear that there can be no legal right to take up arms against the Constitution, so anyone who opposes the movement is a true outlaw and needs to be dealt with, with compassion if possible but with strength and determination if not.

This pathway is so clearly set before us that any other path looks stupid by comparison because we cannot negotiate away our Constitutional rights. We have to establish a new government, within the old one if possible but by any means if not, because those who oppose the Framer's ideas is a traitor, pure and simple.

Well said. Thank you!! :rock:

Ranger566 01-31-2020 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by partsproduction (Post 13053320)
A lot of people died, I'll give you that, but you should read up on Lincoln, he hated every second of the "Uncivil" war, and he didn't start it, contrary to the re-writers of history.

But if there is another war it will be a continuation of the revolutionary war, the throwing out of tyrants whose aim is that of destroying Liberty.

Lincoln believed all human beings that were here legally should have Liberty, and the slavery issue was contrary to the Constitution "With Liberty and Justice for all".

Please stop equating the struggle for Liberty with that war for slavery, this struggle is to RETURN America to its foundations, not to overthrow them.

The way I see it is that a serious movement needs to be established, founded on the Constitution, on Freedom and the rights of mankind. Not rights to murder and enslave others for greed's sake, but the right to work hard and build a life, a good life that hurts no one else.
This movement needs careful planning and implementation, in all things legally per the Constitution, because we know the Founder's expected us to overthrow tyrants, so there has to be a legally declared opposition with the fall back of the righteous use of arms by all who love this country.
It's also clear that there can be no legal right to take up arms against the Constitution, so anyone who opposes the movement is a true outlaw and needs to be dealt with, with compassion if possible but with strength and determination if not.

This pathway is so clearly set before us that any other path looks stupid by comparison because we cannot negotiate away our Constitutional rights. We have to establish a new government, within the old one if possible but by any means if not, because those who oppose the Framer's ideas is a traitor, pure and simple.

I hate it that all the things I saw 60 years ago are coming to fruition, and it's happened far slower than I expected but stopping it will not happen by piecemeal activities, nor by constant preaching to the choir, we have to start thinking for the long term and be willing to sacrifice everything for Freedom. Otherwise, we may as well just give up our guns, and everything else we love, and hope death comes quickly.


Interesting thoughts.

...."We have to establish a new government, within.........................."

Two questions: 1) who is "We"?.......and.....2) how long do you envision it will take to do that from start to finish?

jamiesaun 01-31-2020 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by partsproduction (Post 13053320)
The way I see it is that a serious movement needs to be established, founded on the Constitution, on Freedom and the rights of mankind. Not rights to murder and enslave others for greed's sake, but the right to work hard and build a life, a good life that hurts no one else.

Last time they Hoodwinked us with that they called it the tea party movement. Once they all got re-elected, it fizzled out big time.

FNHipowerluv 01-31-2020 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combat auto (Post 13053362)
I don't see any analogy to the American Civil War either. The south back then was mostly run by Democrat who didn't truly believe in individual rights. The South back then was controlled by the plantation owners who wanted to maintain their power. And I don't care what one's politics or religious beliefs are today, slavery is wrong and it isn't arguable by any reasonable person...

Moreover, it is also technically flipped, back then the South was claiming state rights to maintain their hold on power, today the Lefty is claiming state-rights to take your firearms. Therefore, if you do want to use this analogy, Pro-2A would be part of Lincoln's North and the Lefty Gun-Grabbers part of the Evil-South (back then)...In essence, if you think about it, the Lefty today are the ones trying to secede from our Constitution (believing it is an outdated piece of paper). Not the other way around, just like Lincoln we (PRO-2A) are trying to preserve our Constitution. Don't let/identify-with geography (a constant) distort your perception without considering the changes in politics over the last 160+ years which is anything but a constant...

The Revolutionary war, perhaps a better analogy, but still not close enough. Then we had a foreign power we needed to through out, today, the enemy is embedded among us, they live here, it creates a much different and more challenging dynamic.

My thoughts exactly. I don't want the south to rise again, I just want to see the tree of liberty watered.

jtbull46 01-31-2020 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by partsproduction (Post 13053320)
A lot of people died, I'll give you that, but you should read up on Lincoln, he hated every second of the "Uncivil" war, and he didn't start it, contrary to the re-writers of history.

But if there is another war it will be a continuation of the revolutionary war, the throwing out of tyrants whose aim is that of destroying Liberty.

Lincoln believed all human beings that were here legally should have Liberty, and the slavery issue was contrary to the Constitution "With Liberty and Justice for all".

Please stop equating the struggle for Liberty with that war for slavery, this struggle is to RETURN America to its foundations, not to overthrow them.

The way I see it is that a serious movement needs to be established, founded on the Constitution, on Freedom and the rights of mankind. Not rights to murder and enslave others for greed's sake, but the right to work hard and build a life, a good life that hurts no one else.
This movement needs careful planning and implementation, in all things legally per the Constitution, because we know the Founder's expected us to overthrow tyrants, so there has to be a legally declared opposition with the fall back of the righteous use of arms by all who love this country.
It's also clear that there can be no legal right to take up arms against the Constitution, so anyone who opposes the movement is a true outlaw and needs to be dealt with, with compassion if possible but with strength and determination if not.

This pathway is so clearly set before us that any other path looks stupid by comparison because we cannot negotiate away our Constitutional rights. We have to establish a new government, within the old one if possible but by any means if not, because those who oppose the Framer's ideas is a traitor, pure and simple.

I hate it that all the things I saw 60 years ago are coming to fruition, and it's happened far slower than I expected but stopping it will not happen by piecemeal activities, nor by constant preaching to the choir, we have to start thinking for the long term and be willing to sacrifice everything for Freedom. Otherwise, we may as well just give up our guns, and everything else we love, and hope death comes quickly.

So you think white men put on blue uniforms risking their lives because they belived the black man to be equal and white men put on gray uniforms becuase they believed them to be slaves? YOu need a history lesson as most yankees were as racist as southerners and maybe more. Blacks were not allowed to vote in many yankee states. Yes slavery was a big cause of the war, but if also was about money and while slaves were the currency at the time they were considered legal property thus the war was over money and sectional differences. Hell many yankees wanted them deported to liberia.

LW McVay 01-31-2020 11:16 PM

Gents, do not refight the Civil
War/War of Northern Aggression again here. Thank you.

combat auto 02-01-2020 05:40 AM

Most of the anti-slave movement in USA was fueled (ie extreme passion) by White-Christian's (many women). Most of the people who shed their blood to free slaves where White-Christian-Men from the North.

Contrary to what the Lefty wants us to believe today, the Civil-War was fought mostly over the issue of slavery. The Lefty wants to take the issue of slavery out of the picture so as not to give "credit" to the freeing of slaves to Christian's/White men (cause they hate both Christians and especially those who are white, and even more so men). These Christian's freed these slaves from a South run by the Democratic party back then. According to some sources, the OLD-South was a sort of Oligarchy (power concentrated with the big-plantation owners), with fascist elements like suppression of free speech (e.g., speaking out against slavery)...I don't know, but I would guess most of the Honorable soldiers in gray probably didn't own slaves, and just got caught up in this power struggle unfortunately.

Besides the fact that both the Lefty-South back then and the Lefty-today both claim state's-rights to maintain slavery and gun-grab (respectively), there isn't much of analogy today to the Civil war. There aren't any geographical boundaries today. Political sides have been scrambled all over the USA many times over since then.

Two side notes:

1)We know today's Lefty doesn't really believe in state's right's, except only when it is a Lefty run state.
2) The Pseudo-Oligarchy model of the OLD-South is not far from where the Lefty wants to take this country today. And indeed, exactly where any Socialist/communist society exist (power-concentration in a relatively few hands).

LW McVay 02-01-2020 07:18 AM

Ok then, locked.


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