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-   -   Increasing capacity of 13-round Mec-Gar magazines. (https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=1004420)

JimCunn 11-24-2019 03:05 PM

Increasing capacity of 13-round Mec-Gar magazines.
 
There are two long depressions stamped in the sides of the lower portion of the 13-round magazines that is lacking in the 15-round magazines. If you drill a hole near the upper end of those depressions, with diameter the same as the width of the depressions, and also clip half the length off the two plastic studs on the bottom of the follower, the magazine will hold 14 rounds. I think it might be possible to further modify it to hold 15, but haven't really looked at that yet.

I'm not saying this is a good idea - just interesting.

Mark75H 11-24-2019 06:08 PM

I have altered all of mine to hold 14. There is no reason not to.

JimCunn 11-24-2019 07:18 PM

Have you looked at modifying for 15?

robmkivseries70 11-25-2019 09:09 AM

There have been stories about people dropping their modified HP magazines and having the rounds get all jumbled up. I'd sure test the notion out before carrying said magazines for self defense.
Best,
Rob

Tokarev 11-25-2019 10:07 AM

Couldn't one just buy the 15rd Mec-Gar for $22 or whatever?

JimCunn 11-25-2019 10:21 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Sure, but modding the half dozen or so 13 rounders lying around is free.

The Wizard 11-25-2019 12:33 PM

If you cannot hit what you are aiming at with the first 13 rounds one more is not going to help!

JimCunn 11-25-2019 04:16 PM

I understand. You are recommending that we go to 1-round magazines. 🙂
Sounds good to me.

Donny 11-25-2019 07:25 PM

16 Attachment(s)
My BHPs are range toys and I like the quality and reliability of my 13 rd mags, especially the mouse traps ones. I've got a few 20 rd Mec-Gar mags for fun.

I am happy leaving them the way they are. I do think it's cool that there is a clever mod. to add one or two rounds to the 13 rders.

The Wizard 11-25-2019 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimCunn (Post 12995694)
I understand. You are recommending that we go to 1-round magazines. 🙂
Sounds good to me.

One shot - One kill!

5StringFrosty 11-26-2019 02:09 AM

Something wrong with Mec-Gar 15 rounders at $33.85? Or just do it because you can? I have one and it works just fine.

https://www.mec-gar.com/var/sito/sto...oductsFull.png

Tokarev 11-26-2019 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5StringFrosty (Post 12995926)
Something wrong with Mec-Gar 15 rounders at $33.85? Or just do it because you can? I have one and it works just fine.



https://www.mec-gar.com/var/sito/sto...oductsFull.png

Poke around online. You should be able to find them for closer to $25.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

JimCunn 11-26-2019 10:53 AM

I've got a bunch of 15-rounders. Since I've owned my Hi Power for fifty years, I've got a bunch of 13 and 10-rounders lying around too.

I've only been to a range twice in my life. Is there some benefit to them that eludes me? 🙂

KDKSAIL 12-03-2019 09:59 PM

If ya' get into a situation where 13 rounds ain't enough...ya' probably got problems bigger that what one more round is gonna' fix.

Ibmikey 12-04-2019 10:30 PM

When it comes to magazines and reliability McGar is the best and should be left alone... buy some 15 round mags and save the 13 round for the next assault on firearms, their owners and magazines by the left.

green papaya 12-04-2019 11:03 PM

I dont like to modify magazines, they are more reliably if left alone

I live in a a state where factory 13 rd mags cannot be replaced, not risking modifying a mag

KDKSAIL 12-04-2019 11:10 PM

....or the next actual lethal "..assault.." by some sociopath in a shopping mall, movie theater, school, etc. in a hoodie with cargo-pants pockets full of 25, 30, 50 round magazines. '..left..', 'right' or dead 'center' doesn't matter one little bit when the '..body count..' and casualty list is provided by local law enforcement at the post-incident press conference.

JimCunn 12-05-2019 04:35 PM

3 Attachment(s)
"I live in a a state where factory 13 rd mags cannot be replaced, not risking modifying a mag"

I don't even travel through states like that.... 🙂

On my Kimbers, I usually have to modify the durn things just to get them to feed reliably. A mixed blessing - I use that as an opportunity to add a round to them as well.

As far as round count, I'm also quite content with my 5-round J-frames.

Mark75H 12-06-2019 06:49 PM

There is no reliability penalty with increasing the 13's to 14. The difference between the 13 and 15 is only the special hollow follower in the 15.

KDKSAIL 12-06-2019 08:40 PM

I suppose that what it comes down to is; '..just 'cause I feel like it..'...in which case...go fer' it.

BUT....when shortening the '..legs..' of the original magazine feed/follower, make sure the angle of feed remains un-changed.

Ibmikey 12-06-2019 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KDKSAIL (Post 13004578)
I suppose that what it comes down to is; '..just 'cause I feel like it..'...in which case...go fer' it.

BUT....when shortening the '..legs..' of the original magazine feed/follower, make sure the angle of feed remains un-changed.

Just so happens I have a BHSS gauge for maintaining the proper angle....I can loan it if someone runs into trouble.

KDKSAIL 12-07-2019 10:25 AM

Just as a curiosity....Does Meg-Gar sell replacement '..hollow..' feed-followers used in their 15 round Hi Power magazines. If so...purchasing a 'hollow' 15 round follower to replace the '..footed..' 13 round follower might be the more prudent modification to increase mag capacity (??)

JimCunn 12-07-2019 10:40 AM

If not available, they could be 3D printed.

Donny 12-08-2019 06:30 AM

As with many topics on firearm forums there exists a variety of opinions and strong feelings. We've all enjoyed a good discussion. I've enjoyed learning about about the mod procedures, if I ever decide I need an extra round or two in my range toys.

PsychoSword 12-17-2019 11:50 PM

What would a firearms accessory or firearms modification thread be without stupid platitudes about not needing this or not needing that, or if you really need this, than that won't help you a whole lot. :barf:

So my two cents is.. I have the 15rd Mec-Gar mags, and they generally work great. But in my experience with an older Hi-Power (Pre-MKII) they tended to lock the slide back early. Not so on the MKIII. And I have heard of rounds in those mags getting jumbled around when dropped, but not personally experienced it. However I have experienced it with other quality mags that seemed to have a little bit higher spring compression than they should have. My question is, does this modification to the 13rd magazines compress the spring beyond normal specs when you load 14rd? And how stable is the shelf of the top of the spring on the follower above it when you cut down the legs?

Mark75H 12-21-2019 09:47 AM

If you depress the 13th round you see that there is very little that needs to be removed from the bottom of the follower to allow a 14th round to be inserted.

What is 'normal'? By definition of being less distance, it is beyond normal spec. Is it outside of useful and safe range? No, its probably still longer than when the same spring is used in a MecGar 15 rounder.

Press down on the 13th round, then disassemble the mag and examine the base of the plastic follower. I am very certain the length of the legs of the plastic follower are the length they are merely to follow the P-35 tradition of holding 13 rounds. I am certain the legs function to keep the follower aligned and if you tried to modify a 13 round plastic follower to allow 15 rounds it would become unstable and jam. No such problem exists at 14 rounds.

JimCunn 12-21-2019 10:25 AM

"if you tried to modify a 13 round plastic follower to allow 15 rounds it would become unstable and jam".

There's a way to go from 13 to 15 while retaining stability. You trim/grind the sides of the 13-round follower up from the bottom creating a shelf midway up, so that the lower 'half' of the follower is reduced in size enough to nest within the spring. It will still be stable after the mod.

JimCunn 12-21-2019 10:30 AM

"And I have heard of rounds in those mags getting jumbled around when dropped, but not personally experienced it".

I've had that happen with Promags, but not with MecGars.

PsychoSword 12-22-2019 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimCunn (Post 13015626)
"if you tried to modify a 13 round plastic follower to allow 15 rounds it would become unstable and jam".

There's a way to go from 13 to 15 while retaining stability. You trim/grind the sides of the 13-round follower up from the bottom creating a shelf midway up, so that the lower 'half' of the follower is reduced in size enough to nest within the spring. It will still be stable after the mod.

The 15rd magazine followers are completely hollow.The spring rests at the top of the hollow follower. That is why I worry about modifying 13rd mags to take an extra round. Spring over compression is what ruins springs. I have not looked at a 13rd and 15rd Mecgar spring side by side to see how many coils they each have. That would be interesting.

JimCunn 12-22-2019 10:05 AM

I haven't either. I'll do that this week. On one 13 round mag, I completely cut out the lower side slots so I could see the spring displacement when at full capacity (this particular mag will never be used for carry). Fourteen rounds does not fully compress the spring. With the follower mod I described, neither should 15. I'll report back on that.

hdm25 12-22-2019 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimCunn (Post 13016448)
I haven't either. I'll do that this week. On one 13 round mag, I completely cut out the lower side slots so I could see the spring displacement when at full capacity (this particular mag will never be used for carry). Fourteen rounds does not fully compress the spring. With the follower mod I described, neither should 15. I'll report back on that.

We went over this years ago. 13-rd mags can be easily converted to 15-rd ones. I am someone who has experienced the follower tilting on even the factory 15-rd ones and so I only carry 13-rd OEM/Mecgar mags and reserve the 15-rd ones for the range.

JimCunn 12-22-2019 07:56 PM

"We went over this years ago".

I wasn't here years ago.
I speculate that 13 round followers can be converted to 15 in a way that leaves them stable. I may be wrong. I'll report back on that.

PsychoSword 12-28-2019 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdm25 (Post 13016862)
I am someone who has experienced the follower tilting on even the factory 15-rd ones and so I only carry 13-rd OEM/Mecgar mags and reserve the 15-rd ones for the range.

Are you referring to the 15rd Mec-Gars? I'm not aware of any factory Browning/FN Hi-Power 15rd magazines.

PsychoSword 12-28-2019 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimCunn (Post 13016954)
I speculate that 13 round followers can be converted to 15 in a way that leaves them stable. I may be wrong. I'll report back on that.

Yes, my question is how, and how does the spring not over compress when you merely cut the legs off the solid follower and put in 15rds, since the 15rd Mec-Gars have a hollow follower that the spring goes up into. It seems to me you would need to not only cut the legs off of a 13rd follower, but also hollow it out with a grinder to achieve the same result.

In fact, since the spring is already at the bottom of the 13rd follower, how does it not over compress with 14rds. My only experience with this is Mec-Gar 20rd BHP mags. They seem to accept 21rds with approximately the tension of a fully loaded 13 or 15 capacity Mec-Gar, but I don't know if it's wise to do.

And I've used a lot of mags of different manufactures, OEM/MDS/Checkmate/MecGar that seemed from the outside and even inside appearance that the springs should be compatible with the same capacity mag as far as compression, but they aren't.

Mark75H 12-28-2019 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsychoSword (Post 13021520)
Yes, my question is how, and how does the spring not over compress when you merely cut the legs off the solid follower and put in 15rds, since the 15rd Mec-Gars have a hollow follower that the spring goes up into. It seems to me you would need to not only cut the legs off of a 13rd follower, but also hollow it out with a grinder to achieve the same result.

In fact, since the spring is already at the bottom of the 13rd follower, how does it not over compress with 14rds. My only experience with this is Mec-Gar 20rd BHP mags. They seem to accept 21rds with approximately the tension of a fully loaded 13 or 15 capacity Mec-Gar, but I don't know if it's wise to do.

And I've used a lot of mags of different manufactures, OEM/MDS/Checkmate/MecGar that seemed from the outside and even inside appearance that the springs should be compatible with the same capacity mag as far as compression, but they aren't.

The spring does not "over compress" as a 14 because its NOT at the bottom of a 13 round follower to begin with. The follower has legs that fit inside a few coils of the spring. The same spring as a 15 fits into a pocket in the follower rather than 3/8 lower.

As I said above, load a standard 13 round mag and depress - you will see what a small amount of material would have to be removed to fit a 14th round. Its not like you hack off half of the stabilization legs. You still have coils looped around the follower when using as a 14, not smashed fully flat.

JimCunn 12-28-2019 12:20 PM

"Yes, my question is how, and how does the spring not over compress when you merely cut the legs off the solid follower and put in 15rds"

Because that isn't what you do to convert 13 to 15.

JimCunn 12-28-2019 12:23 PM

6 Attachment(s)
"In fact, since the spring is already at the bottom of the 13rd follower, how does it not over compress with 14rds"

Mark is spot on, it's not at full compression with 14. Very little is taken off the follower legs.

This is a sacrificial 13-round mag that I cut the side out of, so I could see what is going on with the spring and follower. It is loaded with 14 rounds in the photo.Attachment 570808

PsychoSword 12-29-2019 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark75H (Post 13021878)
The spring does not "over compress" as a 14 because its NOT at the bottom of a 13 round follower to begin with. The follower has legs that fit inside a few coils of the spring. The same spring as a 15 fits into a pocket in the follower rather than 3/8 lower.

Thanks, that is mainly what I was wondering about because I remember the springs of the 13rd factory mags ALREADY going to the top of the legs of the follower, so I was wondering how cutting the legs off would make a difference aside from allowing the spring to be compressed more. I must have remembered this wrong. I'll have to take apart one of my 13rd Mec-Gars and see how it looks since I haven't had any factory BHP mags in a long time.

JimCunn 12-29-2019 06:47 AM

Clipping about a eighth inch off the bottom of the legs allows the follower to drop that much lower in the mag before bottoming out on the butt plate. See photo above for example.

PsychoSword 12-29-2019 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimCunn (Post 13022468)
Clipping about a eighth inch off the bottom of the legs allows the follower to drop that much lower in the mag before bottoming out on the butt plate. See photo above for example.

Okay, that's what I was thinking. I'm trying to understand how Mec-Gar needed a hollow follower to achieve 15rds. Is it because the spring will have better life or because the spring will be over compressed bottoming out on a solid follower with legs clipped even further? Or did Mec-Gar go with springs that could only handle the 15rds with a hollow follower? Making me wonder if they used the same springs. Now I think I need to tear my 13rd and 15rd Mec-Gars down and compare.


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