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-   -   Will a 22 cal really have any value? (https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=497811)

Russ Jackson 08-16-2015 03:12 PM

Will a 22 cal really have any value?
 
So I keep hearing this survival advice that if the power goes out, shtf, or any of the other scenarios of doom that a Ruger 10/22 or some other form of 22 pistol or long gun is the best for survival as a must have or first pick gun. You can carry a lot of ammo as it is light and you can still defend yourself and family if need be. And also use it to hunt for small game and even big game if you are a good shot.

Personally I think if the SHTF. Hunting will be useless as I am sure people will kill just about everything alive so fast that that option will be gone in a month or less. Any city deer and other small game will disappear as soon as the first shot goes out. 330 million hungry people have to eat and if they have to I am betting they will eat just about anything. Including each other. Dogs and Cats will become quite valuable. Any local farms with any livestock will be attacked or defended by groups of people and a 22 will get you nowhere. If it goes past 3 weeks I am thinking a 22 will be just about useless. You will need to defend your food,water,shelter and heat.

Sorry but this ability to carry 1000 rounds of 22 rimfire vs a couple hundred rounds of 45 cal or a shotgun with 3 or four pockets full of shells. I am taking the 45 or shotgun.

Am I right or wrong?

yardstick 08-16-2015 03:18 PM

Me, I'm gonna get bit by the zombie early on and not worry about it.

dsk 08-16-2015 04:48 PM

As usual, it depends on exactly what s--- hits the fan, where, and what color. In your scenario 330 million people suddenly left to fend for themselves will quickly consume each other, and it probably won't matter what gun you pack if you don't have lots of other fellow people on your side with guns as well.

SCS1911 08-16-2015 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsk (Post 5655803)
As usual, it depends on exactly what s--- hits the fan, where, and what color. In your scenario 330 million people suddenly left to fend for themselves will quickly consume each other, and it probably won't matter what gun you pack if you don't have lots of other fellow people on your side with guns as well.

Yep, depends on the circumstances.

NDL 08-16-2015 05:35 PM

FWIW, Israeli MOSSAD effectively uses the .22lr.

Russ Jackson 08-16-2015 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsk (Post 5655803)
As usual, it depends on exactly what s--- hits the fan, where, and what color. In your scenario 330 million people suddenly left to fend for themselves will quickly consume each other, and it probably won't matter what gun you pack if you don't have lots of other fellow people on your side with guns as well.

Even if its just 1 outage in a major city and the people cannot get out. If its Martial Law and you are stuck. Weather related etc.... I just do not see the use of a 22 over just about anything else. Give me a scenario where the 22 rifle is best choice.

walks with gun 08-16-2015 06:34 PM

Long term living off the land, maybe after world wide epidemic or Nuclear crises and there's not many left, or many generations after the big event and your scrounging like Mad Max's. It's fictional anyway, carry what you want. Maybe in these times, many people would consider it the end of the world if we didn't hear about the freakin Kardasions or cell phone service disappeared.

Trigger Creep 08-16-2015 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ Jackson (Post 5655885)
... Marshall Law...

I'm pretty sure it's 'martial law.' Unless someone named Marshall gets elected king of the world. :D

Retired AF CE 08-16-2015 07:56 PM

You should be specific in your description. Do you mean .22LR, .223, 22-250. When you say .22 cal that could mean a lot.

NonHyphenAmerican 08-16-2015 09:23 PM

Any given item has a value relative to it's need and usefulness.

A .22 lr rifle is good for varmint control and small game hunting.

Rats, Nutria, Squirrels, Rabbits, Possums and Prairie Dogs all have a "Value" as a small game animal and can also be nuisances.

A .22lr can be a very effective way of eliminating these as a pest while minimizing damage to surroundings and the meat.

There are also, as pointed out, many different ".22" rounds including the .223 just as one example.

While I personally don't have one, there are enough .223 proponents that I'm not going to totally short change it as a viable round for a variety of reasons.

Raiderfan001 08-16-2015 11:55 PM

I'd take a .22 rifle over any pistol period. I'm not going to be worried about concealment in a shtf situation. And I'm, as I'm sure are most people, a hell of a lot more accurate with a rifle.

Nork1911A1 08-17-2015 01:54 AM

Hmm, having to choose between my 10/22 or AR in a SHTF situation?

I'll take the AR, thank you. So yeah, I'll choose a .22 caliber.

Russ Jackson 08-17-2015 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trigger Creep (Post 5655924)
I'm pretty sure it's 'martial law.' Unless someone named Marshall gets elected king of the world. :D


Lol
Sorry voice to text.

jkhouw1 08-17-2015 07:58 AM

Its such a silly question to begin with - if you are a believer in an end of the world-shtf scenario, and you have put yourself in a situation where you only have access to one gun, you don't practice what you preach.

If I were to magically appear in make believe land where everyone is scrounging for what they need to survive and living off the land (or each other), I would have a 22lr with lots of bullets. and an AR, and bolt gun, and pistols, and a solar powered tank, and that elven bread that regenerated itself that Bilbo Baggins & Company went on their quest with, and ....

Really - if you are a doomsday prepper the only scenario i can envision where you have only one gun is where you were traveling and are just stuck with what you have on you. If you are saying it you want that to be 22lr, that implies that must be your EDC. good luck with that.

dsk 08-17-2015 10:47 AM

Two problems with being a doomsday prepper:

1. A lot of guys prep with lots of guns and tons of ammo, yet they don't keep enough food, clothing, and medication. Since most guys over 40 are on blood pressure or cholesterol medication, what are you gonna do when your 30-day subscription runs out?

2. Problem number two, the more stuff you keep to prepare the bigger the target you'll be for those who didn't prepare and want to get their hands on yours. A lone prepper will not last long out there, no matter how much ammo he's got stored away.

The nice thing about a .22LR rifle, especially a take-down rifle is that it and the ammo is extremely portable and you can take it with you no matter where you go. While not the ideal weapon for every situation it will do the job better than not having a weapon at all. Also, every member of your family can handle it, which is important when you need your 10 year-old son to stand guard while you build a new shelter.

Retired AF CE 08-17-2015 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsk (Post 5656532)
Two problems with being a doomsday prepper:

1. A lot of guys prep with lots of guns and tons of ammo, yet they don't keep enough food, clothing, and medication. Since most guys over 40 are on blood pressure or cholesterol medication, what are you gonna do when your 30-day subscription runs out?

2. Problem number two, the more stuff you keep to prepare the bigger the target you'll be for those who didn't prepare and want to get their hands on yours. A lone prepper will not last long out there, no matter how much ammo he's got stored away.

The nice thing about a .22LR rifle, especially a take-down rifle is that it and the ammo is extremely portable and you can take it with you no matter where you go. While not the ideal weapon for every situation it will do the job better than not having a weapon at all. Also, every member of your family can handle it, which is important when you need your 10 year-old son to stand guard while you build a new shelter.

With all these threads and every one's opinions, if something were to happen in a catastrophic way, we will all be screwed! Some would have a quick death and some will have a slow death.

Look at how many nuclear power plants we have here in the US. If one of those bad boys has a catastrophic failure like Fukushima, any thing down wind would be in a real bad situation. No .22 would help you there!

With people's attitudes with each other (including on this thread) will be a disaster in it self!

Earth quakes, economic chaos, climate change, war and other natural/man made disasters could happen and some will happen. Hell, just walking across the street can get you killed. Humanity is very fragile and very vulnerable. Life it self is a gift. We should do our best to help each other and enjoy our time that we have every day!

Expect the worst, hope for the best! I gave my life to Jesus Christ many years ago in Everett Washington. He has supernaturally protected me in some extreme circumstances including war. Jesus is my insurance and assurance.

glocktogo 08-17-2015 12:13 PM

My personal SHTF choices are threefold. You need a good basic handgun that's tolerant of abuse and neglect, that accepts the most commonly available ammo. That's the epitome of a Glock 17 or 19. The envelope needed to carry a 17 or 19 and 100 rounds of ammo on your person isn't much of a burden.

Next you need a standoff weapon. My choice is a 14.5" AR in 5.56. it's good out to as far as you'd ever need to shoot and it packs a lot of firepower into a lightweight package, especially if you keep it simple and uncluttered.

Finally, you're really going to want something more discreet than either of those if you have to use it for anything other than taking down large game or immediate defense. For that, there's nothing in the world better than a 10/22 pocket rifle with a can. It will fit into a small satchel or backpack. It will quietly take any game you might encounter, or vermin for disease control. In a pinch, it would serve well as a standoff weapon in tight quarters. Think about it, nothing has pinpoint accuracy like a .22LR. Whether it's a foot, hand, ear, eyeball, whatever... if you see it you can hit it inside 100 yards. You can carry a ton of ammo in ready to go 25 round increments, plus a lifetime supply will fit in a small vehicle.

The short barrel keeps even bulk pack ammo subsonic, so it's very quiet with the can attached. If you don't have one, you're also missing out on a ton of fun. Here's what I'm talking about if you've never seen one:

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/5...1108211453.jpg

https://jurmondsarsenal.files.wordpr...ps0c95d506.jpg

https://jurmondsarsenal.files.wordpr...30000659im.jpg

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/w..._h4tp-tfb.jpeg

http://i55.servimg.com/u/f55/17/16/16/92/blackh11.jpg

1saxman 08-17-2015 01:02 PM

There's no need to complicate the question of what is '.22'. It is .22 LR or .22 Short. Even .22 Magnum is never called just .22 and no centerfire rifle cartridge is ever called just .22.

Living off the land, you would want a .22 for taking small game and making less noise. It would be great to have a centerfire carbine for the two-legged varmints, but depending on how good you are, a .22 in the eye at 25 yds will stop the fight as well as any other rifle.

BoulderTroll 08-17-2015 01:41 PM

Based on your poll, 73% of us so far would NOT take a .22 as our first choice. The folks who would must be the vocal minority.

I can see a lot of potential uses for a .22 in a SHTF situation, but it would not be anywhere near my top pick or my only pick.

These firearm threads for SHTF are fun, which is why we all enjoy reading them. But deep down I'm sure we all know it's the Indian, not the arrow. Good judgment skills will be 1000 times more valuable than choice in weapons.

Korben 08-17-2015 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walks with gun (Post 5655910)
.... Maybe in these times, many people would consider it the end of the world if we didn't hear about the freakin Kardasions ...

It'd almost be worth it just to get rid of the F'n kardashians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCEeAn6_QJo

spclopr8tr 08-17-2015 04:27 PM

A .22 would be a great addition to my toolbox in a SHTF scenario. But for most anything plausible and covering a wide range of situations, I am always going to reach from my AR-15. Yeah, I might blow the head off small game, but I also want to be able to put a serious hole in he head of two legged predators as well.

dsk 08-18-2015 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korben (Post 5656832)
It'd almost be worth it just to get rid of the kardashians.

If modern society broke down the Kardashian sisters would probably be the first ones to throw themselves off a bridge. Imagine life without selfies or a thousand colors of nail polish.

wccountryboy 08-18-2015 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glocktogo (Post 5656618)
My personal SHTF choices are threefold. You need a good basic handgun that's tolerant of abuse and neglect, that accepts the most commonly available ammo. That's the epitome of a Glock 17 or 19. The envelope needed to carry a 17 or 19 and 100 rounds of ammo on your person isn't much of a burden.

Next you need a standoff weapon. My choice is a 14.5" AR in 5.56. it's good out to as far as you'd ever need to shoot and it packs a lot of firepower into a lightweight package, especially if you keep it simple and uncluttered.

Finally, you're really going to want something more discreet than either of those if you have to use it for anything other than taking down large game or immediate defense. For that, there's nothing in the world better than a 10/22 pocket rifle with a can. It will fit into a small satchel or backpack. It will quietly take any game you might encounter, or vermin for disease control. In a pinch, it would serve well as a standoff weapon in tight quarters. Think about it, nothing has pinpoint accuracy like a .22LR. Whether it's a foot, hand, ear, eyeball, whatever... if you see it you can hit it inside 100 yards. You can carry a ton of ammo in ready to go 25 round increments, plus a lifetime supply will fit in a small vehicle.

The short barrel keeps even bulk pack ammo subsonic, so it's very quiet with the can attached. If you don't have one, you're also missing out on a ton of fun. Here's what I'm talking about if you've never seen one:

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/5...1108211453.jpg

https://jurmondsarsenal.files.wordpr...ps0c95d506.jpg

https://jurmondsarsenal.files.wordpr...30000659im.jpg

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/w..._h4tp-tfb.jpeg

http://i55.servimg.com/u/f55/17/16/16/92/blackh11.jpg

Looks like a fun 10/22! As a sidebar, have you had good luck with the Remington Subsonics pictured? I've had quite a bit of difficulty with them, and I have thousands of the things... they seem to be very inconstant, some are supersonic, others are so sub sonic that they don't cycle the action.

To return to topic, a .22LR would be at least a second, probably a third or forth gun for me, defiantly not my one and only. I would want a gun/caliber combination that is EFFECTIVE for both hunting medium sized game and EFFECTIVE for defensive use. The .22LR doesn't fit this requirement; while it is capable of killing both medium game and people, it is NOT effective at doing so.

Quote:

...but depending on how good you are, a .22 in the eye at 25 yds will stop the fight as well as any other rifle
This isn't really true, even a shot through an eye may lack the energy to do enough damage to be instantly incapacitating... not to mention that 25y is NOT precision shooting ranges; its CQB, flash sight picture distance...

walks with gun 08-18-2015 09:14 AM

If they don't see you first, it's still precision shooting.

glocktogo 08-18-2015 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wccountryboy (Post 5657635)
Looks like a fun 10/22! As a sidebar, have you had good luck with the Remington Subsonics pictured? I've had quite a bit of difficulty with them, and I have thousands of the things... they seem to be very inconstant, some are supersonic, others are so sub sonic that they don't cycle the action.

To return to topic, a .22LR would be at least a second, probably a third or forth gun for me, defiantly not my one and only. I would want a gun/caliber combination that is EFFECTIVE for both hunting medium sized game and EFFECTIVE for defensive use. The .22LR doesn't fit this requirement; while it is capable of killing both medium game and people, it is NOT effective at doing so.

This isn't really true, even a shot through an eye may lack the energy to do enough damage to be instantly incapacitating... not to mention that 25y is NOT precision shooting ranges; its CQB, flash sight picture distance...

Remington subs are The Worst Subs Ever Made. :(

I've had great results with CCI and stellar results with Fiocchi sub HP's (22FHPSUB).


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