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-   -   Experior (https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=1005406)

HarryO45 12-11-2019 04:58 PM

I am wondering if there is a higher capacity magazine? Compete against the STI? Aftermarket higher capacity mags?

Grandpas50AE 12-11-2019 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryO45 (Post 13008164)
It has always been inferior

Not necessarily, there have been successful external extractor offerings by several companies. For most offering them, the initial offerings were a bit spotty, and in some cases disastrous, but some of the companies offering them learned that (particularly) the hook geometry had to change to be reliable. S&W is very successful with theirs being reliable, as are some others, including the Wilson EDC line, even with the limited few that broke due to over-hardening (presumably). I doubt Kimber ever figured out what the problem was, as they abandoned their external extractor attempt before they figured out the necessary geometry change.

WilsonCombatRep 12-11-2019 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scubadad (Post 13007956)
So if the experior has an interior extractor does that make a exterior extractor inferior??

People who know how to fit, tune and adjust an internal extractor have no issues with them and the gun looks cleaner without the external. Same with the fixed sights vs the adjustable battlesights.

I really like the external X9 extractor. It's not going away but on this model we wanted to give the guns a little more of a traditional look.

chrysanthemum 12-11-2019 06:03 PM

^^^^

There are pros and cons to the internal versus external extractor selection.

But other than aesthetics and tradition (the latter being important to many 1911 enthusiasts), these pros and cons exist at nearly a micro-level of detail. It is such that what might be fractionally better for person A might be fractionally not quite as good for person B.

Perhaps many persons (those with detailed experience) might agree with the opinion (of mine) that a person who has no interest and/or no ability to occasionally adjust the extractor might fare better with the external extractor. But a person who has interest and ability to adjust the extractor -- it's not that difficult -- is likely to prefer an internal extractor....especially if he/she is a dyed-in-the-wool 1911 enthusiast.

If properly designed and maintained, both will work just fine.

GP's and WCR's input above are spot-on accurate (as always). +1911 and +1911

tjpaxton 12-11-2019 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilsonCombatRep (Post 13008186)
People who know how to fit, tune and adjust an internal extractor have no issues with them and the gun looks cleaner without the external. Same with the fixed sights vs the adjustable battlesights.

I really like the external X9 extractor. It's not going away but on this model we wanted to give the guns a little more of a traditional look.

Welcome back, it's been nearly 3 months since you commented in the WC forum, hope all is well.

We'd (I'd) love to hear any more insight into this model is there's anything further you can share or clear up. What other names were in consideration for this pistol? How long has this been in the works?

I did email WC today and asked about the double-stack magwell delete. They said "yes" the Experior double-stack models can be ordered without the magwell.

Some of the Experior line has already hit the online market.

Striker2237 12-11-2019 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryO45 (Post 13008166)
I am wondering if there is a higher capacity magazine? Compete against the STI? Aftermarket higher capacity mags?

This. The main reason I haven't dropped $14000 on 2011s is because I really want a Wilson option for open class and limited/open carry type arm since I know it will work.

On the note of extractors I prefer internal not for looks but since I can more easily adjust it if it for some reason needs it, it's also one part not four so I feel less likely to stop working due to a little spring or o-ring dying or a screw backing out. I've never had an issue with my internal guns but my external ones have had a bunch and my new ZEV OZ9 just had it's extractor spring break on me in less than 2500 rounds on the stupid thing. Doesn't instill me with confidence with how many issues I've had vs my "unreliable" 1911s with their internal ones.

US1911 12-11-2019 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjpaxton (Post 13008204)
What other names were in consideration for this pistol?

Maybe;
  • R.I.P. eX
  • Xellence
  • X-Life
  • XXXXXXXX9

All of which wouldíve been eXceedingly better than eXperior. :biglaugh:

However, I dig it, regardless of the name. Itís forward thinking of Wilson to introduce new models. They havenít, nor will they ever abandon classic 1911ís. But, itís in their best interest to expand their lineup.

We may not always agree with their business decisions or the evolution of their pistols, but lest we forget, us graybeards arenít the future. As such, Wilson needs to continue reaching beyond the AARP crowd. Pretty sure Wilson knows what theyíre doing better than I do.

Grandpas50AE 12-11-2019 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by US1911 (Post 13008304)
Maybe;
  • R.I.P. eX
  • Xellence
  • X-Life
  • XXXXXXXX9

All of which wouldíve been eXceedingly better than eXperior. :biglaugh:

However, I dig it, regardless of the name. Itís forward thinking of Wilson to introduce new models. They havenít, nor will they ever abandon classic 1911ís. But, itís in their best interest to expand their lineup.

We may not always agree with their business decisions or the evolution of their pistols, but lest we forget, us graybeards arenít the future. As such, Wilson needs to continue reaching beyond the AARP crowd. Pretty sure Wilson knows what theyíre doing better than I do.

This is eXtremely astute as an observation (spelling on eXtreme on purpose), and I agree. Pure wisdom IMO, because you are right: us old guys are not the future, our kids and grandkids are; best to develop a market for them, as their tastes will be a bit different than ours.

Jonesky 12-11-2019 09:22 PM

Gonna need a manual to dissect all the different models. But I didn't see a 45 double stack...yet.

combat auto 12-12-2019 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striker2237 (Post 13008302)
This. The main reason I haven't dropped $14000 on 2011s is because I really want a Wilson option for open class and limited/open carry type arm since I know it will work.

On the note of extractors I prefer internal not for looks but since I can more easily adjust it if it for some reason needs it, it's also one part not four so I feel less likely to stop working due to a little spring or o-ring dying or a screw backing out. I've never had an issue with my internal guns but my external ones have had a bunch and my new ZEV OZ9 just had it's extractor spring break on me in less than 2500 rounds on the stupid thing. Doesn't instill me with confidence with how many issues I've had vs my "unreliable" 1911s with their internal ones.

Related to the above, I've mentioned this before, and I'll say it again, I'd like to see some model's from WC which are "sportier". Here is what I mean about that, my STI CC out-shoots my WC CC by a little. Plus the STI has higher capacity. But similar to your view on "less likely to stop working", I just don't feel my STI is built on par with the WC as far as ruggedness (granted only a sample of 1 STI in my part vs 5 WC's). So what I would really get excited about, would be intrinsic WC ruggedness with STI-type shooting enhancements, like a speed-shoot magwell (or whatever it is called), high-cap-45, barrel-mounted island FS, and yes, even a poly grip (which absorbs recoil), and whatever other innovation's WC might add. This would be true differentiation to what WC offer's now...All these trim enhancements in the latest WC offerings are nice, but meh, not enough to go out and buy a new gun when my WC 45'a are already running 110%. I have the Xtac grip on one of them, if I could magically get it on the other 4 WC, I would, but short of that, not much I am getting excited about with this or even less so, the last "lower-budget" offering from last month.

Outside the X9 and its version in this offering, I am not sure how this offering expands their brand much vs the offerings they already have now. But, of course I wish them well and hope they make many incremental sales, I have 5 WC Lifetime warranties I've invested in :-).

Dddrees 12-12-2019 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combat auto (Post 13008498)
Related to the above, I've mentioned this before, and I'll say it again, I'd like to see some model's from WC which are "sportier". Here is what I mean about that, my STI CC out-shoots my WC CC by a little. Plus the STI has higher capacity. But similar to your view on "less likely to stop working", I just don't feel my STI is built on par with the WC as far as ruggedness (granted only a sample of 1 STI in my part vs 5 WC's). So what I would really get excited about, would be intrinsic WC ruggedness with STI-type shooting enhancements, like a speed-shoot magwell (or whatever it is called), high-cap-45, barrel-mounted island FS, and yes, even a poly grip (which absorbs recoil), and whatever other innovation's WC might add. This would be true differentiation to what WC offer's now...All these trim enhancements in the latest WC offerings are nice, but meh, not enough to go out and buy a new gun when my WC 45'a are already running 110%. I have the Xtac grip on one of them, if I could magically get it on the other 4 WC, I would, but short of that, not much I am getting excited about with this or even less so, the last "lower-budget" offering from last month.

Outside the X9 and its version in this offering, I am not sure how this offering expands their brand much vs the offerings they already have now. But, of course I wish them well and hope they make many incremental sales, I have 5 WC Lifetime warranties I've invested in :-).

You may only have one but how about the crowd you guys happen to travel in. What has been your experience if any with those around you that have STI's? What has their experiences been like?

combat auto 12-12-2019 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dddrees (Post 13008500)
You may only have one but how about the crowd you guys happen to travel in. What has been your experience if any with those around you that have STI's? What has their experiences been like?

STI's are very big in the competition market at all levels...When I was running my WC TE in Limit Division with a 10r mag stick in it, almost everyone else in the division where running STI's. There is a lot of bang for the performance buck. But they also have their carry model's etc. To answer your question, it seems that most STI owners are very happy with them (very limited anecdotal data from those I met at matches and my observation's from the STI-folder). Not sure what % of them have a WC to compare them too though. I can only draw conclusion's based on my personal experience with caveats noted (ie, only a sample of 1 STI vs 5 WC's), and that conclusion is: STI's are built like race-car's, WC 1911's like Humvee's (meaning very-hardy), kinda ;-).

Dddrees 12-12-2019 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combat auto (Post 13008550)
STI's are very big in the competition market at all levels...When I was running my WC TE in Limit Division with a 10r mag stick in it, almost everyone else in the division where running STI's. There is a lot of bang for the performance buck. But they also have their carry model's etc. To answer your question, it seems that most STI owners are very happy with them (very limited anecdotal data from those I met at matches and my observation's from the STI-folder). Not sure what % of them have a WC to compare them too though. I can only draw conclusion's based on my personal experience with caveats noted (ie, only a sample of 1 STI vs 5 WC's), and that conclusion is: STI's are built like race-car's, WC 1911's like Humvee's (meaning very-hardy), kinda ;-).

Great feedback. Thank you.

Plantar5 12-12-2019 06:41 AM

I must say, WC isnt sitting back on their model lines. Reminiscent of some of the car manufacturers like BMW and Mercedes which have a ton of different models that its hard to keep track. But it seems a bit busy for me was my first reaction. Some of the detail/enhancements sound good.
“Don’t be the first and dont be the last”, someone once told me.
But after all, it is 2019...2020!!
I guess the market will determine its popularity/longevity.

chrysanthemum 12-12-2019 02:28 PM

The current variety of offerings is well-illustrated in Wilson's 2020 Calendar.

On the whole, it is good to see the variety (well, maybe I'm not a fan of the Glocks), but I confess to a small pang of sadness in noting the absence of the old-time, full-size SG Classic flagship. (Although there is a nicely engraved Tactical SG for one month).

It's obviously just me, and maybe my age, but I'd surely like to see the SG Classic over a Glock, even a pair of Glocks, in the Wilson annual calendar. Maybe I can juxtapose a Classic SG photo from an earlier Wilson calendar when the Glock month rolls around.:dope:

So there, I got that off my chest. And this detail aside, +1911 for another great Wilson calendar.:rock:

WilsonCombatRep 12-13-2019 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjpaxton (Post 13008204)
Welcome back, it's been nearly 3 months since you commented in the WC forum, hope all is well.

We'd (I'd) love to hear any more insight into this model is there's anything further you can share or clear up. What other names were in consideration for this pistol? How long has this been in the works?

I did email WC today and asked about the double-stack magwell delete. They said "yes" the Experior double-stack models can be ordered without the magwell.

Some of the Experior line has already hit the online market.

Now that our customer service team is well established I normally don't comment on customer service or marketing issues here anymore.

Bill Wilson is over brand/marketing for all products and he came up with the name Experior.

WC has been working on this for over a year I would estimate.

Any other questions? [email protected] is your best bet.

jr24 12-14-2019 06:03 AM

So, since the double stacks on this line seem to be more standard 1911 uppers, I'm wondering if you can get the compact barrel comped with the double stack frame?

Ytown1911 12-14-2019 10:43 AM

I know I saw it somewhere (cannot find location for this quick response) but I believe the 9mm models utilize the newer locking lug system for the EDCX9 series, regardless of the extractor location. The comp barrels utilize the traditional two-lug design.

Striker2237 12-14-2019 12:49 PM

The X9 barrel compatibility issue is from the barrel ramp area, not the lugs. I looked everything over and called back and forth a lot about that since I am hell bent on having a comped X9 type framed gun at some point.

jr24 12-14-2019 01:14 PM

Dang, that would have been sweet

GTTom 12-14-2019 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr24 (Post 13010320)
Dang, that would have been sweet

Agree. Just now getting into comped 1911 pistols. Havenít even got my new X-Tac Elite Carry Comp yet but expect to really enjoy it. Just wondering if anyone has tried the NHC Fire Hawk comp? NightHawk has the a double stack option for this build.

combat auto 12-16-2019 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilsonCombatRep (Post 13009398)
Now that our customer service team is well established I normally don't comment on customer service or marketing issues here anymore.

Bill Wilson is over brand/marketing for all products and he came up with the name Experior.

WC has been working on this for over a year I would estimate.

Any other questions? [email protected] is your best bet.

I was wondering if you retired ;). Retirement is a good-gig.:)

Striker2237 12-16-2019 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTTom (Post 13010510)
Quote:

Originally Posted by jr24 (Post 13010320)
Dang, that would have been sweet

Agree. Just now getting into comped 1911 pistols. Haven’t even got my new X-Tac Elite Carry Comp yet but expect to really enjoy it. Just wondering if anyone has tried the NHC Fire Hawk comp? NightHawk has the a double stack option for this build.

Yes, it's not carry sized and it uses the stroker system of operation plus a very heavy front assembly. It's more effective than the Wilson version but not as durable or insensitive to maintenance but they will make a double stack full race version on request but if you want that route ask for the EGW 7 port comp instead since it works better than a single.

Different goals in each gun really, the carry comp system is for maximum possible performance in a gun you can tear round carry and the firehawk is a range gun

combat auto 12-16-2019 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striker2237 (Post 13011712)
Yes, it's not carry sized and it uses the stroker system of operation plus a very heavy front assembly. It's more effective than the Wilson version but not as durable or insensitive to maintenance but they will make a double stack full race version on request but if you want that route ask for the EGW 7 port comp instead since it works better than a single.

Different goals in each gun really, the carry comp system is for maximum possible performance in a gun you can tear round carry and the firehawk is a range gun

The NH is an interesting gun, something I'd like to enjoy...I can't tell from their sight if the barrel length speced at 5" includes the compensator in that 5"...The gun looks shorter than my 5" WC-Custom comp, but that may just be an internet optical illusion.

I would think the better WC comparison of this NH might be what the WC custom shop build for me, a 5" gun with the Comped Hunter barrel (it is in addition to the 5"es)...If my assumption is correct, I'd go with WC if for no other reason just to grab the Xtac f/r-strap treatment, but I am also guessing WC has a richer set of option than NH (just guessing as I don't own the latter)...There is also company diversification to consider, already owning 5 WCs, not a bad idea to go with another company. But that can burn both ways, my Conan 357 no longer has a warranty now that Conan went out of business.

Is there anything else that NH gives one that a 5" WC custom-comp doesn't?

Striker2237 12-16-2019 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combat auto (Post 13011838)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Striker2237 (Post 13011712)
Yes, it's not carry sized and it uses the stroker system of operation plus a very heavy front assembly. It's more effective than the Wilson version but not as durable or insensitive to maintenance but they will make a double stack full race version on request but if you want that route ask for the EGW 7 port comp instead since it works better than a single.

Different goals in each gun really, the carry comp system is for maximum possible performance in a gun you can tear round carry and the firehawk is a range gun

The NH is an interesting gun, something I'd like to enjoy...I can't tell from their sight if the barrel length speced at 5" includes the compensator in that 5"...The gun looks shorter than my 5" WC-Custom comp, but that may just be an internet optical illusion.

I would think the better WC comparison of this NH might be what the WC custom shop build for me, a 5" gun with the Comped Hunter barrel (it is in addition to the 5"es)...If my assumption is correct, I'd go with WC if for no other reason just to grab the Xtac f/r-strap treatment, but I am also guessing WC has a richer set of option than NH (just guessing as I don't own the latter)...There is also company diversification to consider, already owning 5 WCs, not a bad idea to go with another company. But that can burn both ways, my Conan 357 no longer has a warranty now that Conan went out of business.

Is there anything else that NH gives one that a 5" WC custom-comp doesn't?

It's 5" overall, there is one in my LGS I can take detailed pictures of if you would like. NHC unlike Wilson will do whatever you want and use whoever's parts you want for crazy one off stuff. They in my personal opinion are more nicely (if a little inconsistent gun to gun) finished and are tighter guns (not always a good thing) and the ability to have them make you ANYTHING comes into play sometimes.

The firehawk will have less recoil than your 5" comped gun due to more static mass and very long stroke and very effective springs and a good comp. It's very impressive and I was tempted at first to order a DS 9mm with optics to replace my Brown but the reliability differential held me back.


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