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  #1  
Old 10-01-2004, 04:29 PM
Neisse Neisse is offline
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Smith & Wesson pump shotgun - need info




I found a "Smith & Wesson" shotgun today at a pawn shop that was in VERY good condition, and certainly priced right for me. It does have a couple of minor problems (needs a GOOD cleaning, cracked area on the wooden forearm on the left side). I'd like to find a couple of resources for more information on this shotgun.

I'm specifically looking for stocks, & replacement parts - or, parts that can be slightly modified to work, as needed. I'm also looking for history of the S&W shotguns, quirks, listing of models/features, disassembly instructions/exploded drawings, etc.; basically, as much info as I can find on them!

As for particulars of my shotgun, I do not have the model or serial number yet ( pick it up next month). What I remember of it is this: Wooden stock & forearm w/ checkered areas, 12 gauge (takes 2 3/4 and 3" shells), barrel about 26" or so, blued finish w/ gold-tone trigger, tang safety. If more info is needed, I'll call the gun shop it's at next week and ask for all of the markings that's on the shotgun to be read to me, along with locations on the weapon.

Any and all information pertaining to the Smith & Wesson shotguns that can be provided will be greatly appreciated! Heck, I didn't even know S&W made shotguns until a couple of days ago!
  #2  
Old 10-01-2004, 04:33 PM
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rfurtkamp rfurtkamp is offline
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Once you get the model number and serial, email or call S&W and they'll send you a manual.

I have a Model 1000 semiauto, made by Howa, that's a very, very nice piece. It's a shame it doesn't do much more than hang on the wall.
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  #3  
Old 10-01-2004, 08:42 PM
JosephH1 JosephH1 is offline
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Check out CDNN Investments they have S&W shotguns for sale. Under 200.00 IIRC.
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  #4  
Old 10-01-2004, 10:04 PM
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guy sajer guy sajer is offline
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I'm aware of two pump models . M916 & M3000 .
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  #5  
Old 10-02-2004, 07:49 AM
smince smince is offline
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Parts and a catalog with exploded drawings can be obtained from Numrich Arms 866-686-7424. There 1200+ page catalog is well worth the 12 dollar price. They have parts/drawings for S&W 916, 916-A, 916-T, 3000 pumps, and for the 1000 auto-loader.

I bought a 916T (12ga) in riot configuration in 1980 and it was a great, trouble free weapon. A friend liked it so much he bought it from me for well over what I paid, and it still works fine.
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  #6  
Old 10-04-2004, 03:12 PM
Neisse Neisse is offline
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I have the info on my shotgun:

It is a Smith & Wesson, Model 916 (Eastfield) 12 gauge pump, serial number B099XX.

I'll try to find S&W's number and call 'em for a manual.

Thanks a bunch for the info on Numrich. I visit their website often, but I didn't think to look there for the S&W. DOH ! Sometimes we all need a reminder...

Is there any web resource on the S&W shotguns? Listing history, quirks, etc? Or, a book? I'd like to know more about them, their background, etc. Especially what the "Eastfield" means that is stamped on the barrel on mine.

Thanks a bunch, again...
  #7  
Old 10-04-2004, 03:49 PM
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I think ... Eastfield is a city in MA ?

800-331-0852
I seriously doubt they will have any manuals for your gun . You may have to talk with several people there to find one that's even heard of it .
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  #8  
Old 10-04-2004, 06:58 PM
dfariswheel dfariswheel is offline
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FYI, here's my answer about the Model 916 from another forum:

There were three S&W shotguns.

The first was the ill-fated Model 916A and 916T.
The 916 was supposedly made for S&W by Howa of Japan.

This was a copy of the old Nobel shotgun, and was an absolute disaster for S&W.
The 916 suffered from poor quality control, and just a plain BAD design. It did serious damage to S&W's reputation, and was quickly discontinued.

A later gun was made by Howa, and this was the S&W Model 3000 pump. This was a "clone" of the Remington 870 pump gun.

At the time, S&W was attempting to corner the Police market.
They already were the major police pistol maker, and they were offering lines of ammunition, holsters, handcuffs, and other police supplies.

They thought they could take the police market away from Remington's 870 with the Model 3000.

For a brief time, the 3000 did have somewhat of a "cult" following among individual police officers, but Remington had, (and still has) the police shotgun market sewed up, with 95% PLUS of the market.

Few departments bought the Model 3000, mostly because they trusted the Remington 870, and had been badly burned by the infamous Winchester Model 1200/1300 fiasco.
Mostly, the Model 3000 just didn't have anything "extra" to offer over the time-tested Remington.

Within a few years, S&W dropped the ammo, and holsters to "Get back to their Core business of making pistols".
S&W also dropped the S&W/Howa Model 3000, which Mossberg picked up for a year or so, eventually dropping it also.

The third S&W shotgun was the Howa-made Model 1000 auto shotgun.
It too failed to gain a market over the Remington Model 1100, and when S&W dropped the 3000, the 1000 went with it.

Again, Mossberg picked it up for a year or so, then dropped both, and the Howa Model 1000/3000 faded into oblivion.

Parts for the S&W models, 916, 1000, and 3000 can still be bought from Gun Parts Corporation, including some Police accessories like folding stocks, magazine extenders, and barrels for the 3000.
http://www.e-gunparts.com

Since the Model 3000 is a clone of the Remington 870, a Remington manual can be used to strip it.
A Remington manual can be found here:
http://www.stevespages.com/page7b.htm

If the gun you saw was the 916.....PASS.
If it was a 3000, these make fine shotguns.
====================================
As a followup, the 916 was one of S&W's few mistakes, and the company reputation took a major hit.

This is not to say that EVERY 916 sold gave trouble, but enough of them did, to the point that S&W seriously considered recalling ALL of them to restore their reputation.
  #9  
Old 10-05-2004, 12:51 PM
BarryinIN BarryinIN is offline
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Wasn't there was a recall on the 916?

I'm pretty sure that S&W issued a recall on some 916 shotguns.
I don't remember what the problem was just off the top of my head; it was 20-25 years ago. A call to S&W will probably answer any questions. But if you need, I'll look in some old gun magazines for the recall notice.

Sorry for the lack of specifics on this, but I thought it was important enough to mention, even if I didn't know much about it. Odds are, yours started out OK, or has been fixed. But you never know, so I thought you should probably be made aware of this.

FWIW, I had a 916 until not that long ago. It was a "riot" type- extended magazine, cyl bore, and had rifle sights. I shot it VERY little, but it worked.

S&W got the 916 by buyng the Noble company, who made shotguns and some .22 rifles. S&W made the guns in the old Noble factory, or had them made there, depending on when/where/how you look at it. If you ever look at a Noble pump shotgun, you'll see the similarity to a 916, good or bad.

Story Time: Now, this story is very unsupportable by any facts I have; and it was told to me by someone now deceased, so can't be confirmed by him; but, here goes:
Supposedly, S&W shopped around for a contractor to build shotguns for them. Noble, nearing bankruptcy, got the deal. The thing was, Noble's tooling and machinery was hoplessly outdated, worn-out, and just plain junk. S&W learned this too late, and realized to get their shotguns, they had to "fix" Noble's factory. Ater some number crunching, S&W decided it would be cheaper/easier/more cost-effective to just buy the place and do it themselves.
  #10  
Old 10-05-2004, 07:21 PM
dfariswheel dfariswheel is offline
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Sorry, I wasn't clear about the 916 "recall".

Rumor had it, that S&W was strongly thinking about BUYING all the 916's BACK.

The 916 was such a disaster to S&W's reputation, they apparently discussed actually buying the guns back to protect their rep.

Cooler heads prevailed, and no such buy-back was undertaken.
  #11  
Old 10-08-2004, 12:47 AM
Neisse Neisse is offline
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Hmmm.... This is interesting history. Thanks for the info.

My 916 looks to be in VERY good shape, apart from a sllightly cracked handguard. It may not even need to be replaced - I might be able o just epoxy it, especially as a forearm/handguard on a pump is not a high-stress part.

I did call S&W Wednesday (10/6) to request a manual & any other literature they had for it. Of course, I got sent to a voice mail and had to record my request. I will call them back after I pick up the shotgun (I still have to finish paying it off), so I have it in hand in case they have any questions that require me to inspect the firearm to answer.

As to a possible "recall", if anyone can find any evidence of one, please let me know specifics, and state your source so I can refresh S&W's collective minds. Usually, once something is recalled due to a defect (esp. safety-related), the recall never expires. Hopefully, mine was already repaired. Regardless, I'd like to find out for sure.

All I wanted was a 12 Gauge pump or autoloader for home defence, and to possibly learn to shoot at clay birds with! I hope that this shotgun will fulfill that role adequately; at least until I can afford to trade it for something more "mainstream".
  #12  
Old 07-26-2008, 11:35 PM
Bluedsteelnwood Bluedsteelnwood is offline
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Still have my S&W model 3000 with 20 inch police barrel with blade front sight and adjustable rear sight callled a slug barrel with slug choke. not a cylinder bore etc. but made specifically for slugs not sabots either. The difference I can't tell. I wish you guys didn't request the matierals that went with the shotgun as the seller gave me a ton of S&W promotion matieral. The model 3000 came with every type of stock and tactical assesory you can think of and you could also by switching barrels on mine (the type with the wood stock, add a twenty six or eight inch barrel and go upland game hunting. The receiver is forged, something you don't see on the majority of shotguns selling today for two or three hundred new. The machining and matching of parts surpase the wingmaster of Remington fame. So go put your safe queen in the closet again and I''ll take my S&W out shotgunning for controlling riots to upland birds and deer and remember that is a forged receiver and a good amount of parts. Good for Howa.
  #13  
Old 08-18-2010, 05:11 PM
rzrazor123 rzrazor123 is offline
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I have a 916a for squirril hunting its a full choke and very good and accurate but every one i see has a chip or crack in stock but there reliable guns the only other shotguns i would reconmend is frenchies and mossbergs
  #14  
Old 08-18-2010, 06:40 PM
21/503 21/503 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfariswheel View Post

For a brief time, the 3000 did have somewhat of a "cult" following among individual police officers, but Remington had, (and still has) the police shotgun market sewed up, with 95% PLUS of the market.

Few departments bought the Model 3000, mostly because they trusted the Remington 870, and had been badly burned by the infamous Winchester Model 1200/1300 fiasco. Mostly, the Model 3000 just didn't have anything "extra" to offer over the time-tested Remington.
The agency I'm retired from bought some S&W Model 3000's to supplement our 870's. As I understand it, our 3000's had one important improvement on the 870's of the day: they had a tab in the receiver that prevented double feeds. Before that, a buddy of mine graduated the Academy and the armorer shipped him a NIB 870. After installing the barrel, he loaded it and the very first time he racked the slide, it had a doublefeed. (Of course, you could smash the buttpad into the ground and rack the slide, but who wants to chance scratching a new shotgun?) As I understand it, Remington copied this improvement.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but what was the Winchester 1200/1300 fiasco?
  #15  
Old 08-18-2010, 08:28 PM
dfariswheel dfariswheel is offline
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The Winchester fiasco was the post-1964 shotguns, especially the Model 1200.

Winchester used to own the police shotgun market with the old milled steel tank Model 12.
These guns lasted just about forever and would take any abuse and still work.

In 1964 Winchester reordered their entire line because all the old milled rifles and shotguns had priced themselves out of the market.
The new guns used stamped parts, and in the Model 1200 case, an aluminum receiver.

Winchester assured the police buyers that the new gun was a better, more durable, and more modern design and was the wave of the future.
Actual use proved that none of that was true.
The Model 1200 was simply a failure in police use, where the guns failed to take the abuse police guns typically get.
In short....they broke.

The police had so many problems that most refused to buy anymore Model 1200's, so Winchester did a fast partial redesign to try to fix the problems and introduced the "new and improved" Model 1300.
The 1300 also failed to stand up very well, and the police started buying the excellent steel Remington 870.
Winchester never again held more than a tiny portion of the police market, and seldom held any department for long.

After that, very few police agencies ever bought Winchester shotguns again, and the Remington 870 gained over 95% of the police shotgun market.
Mossberg also attempted to move into the police market with their Model 500, but it too failed to stand up to the police night watch version of "hold my beer and watch this".
Mossberg finally upgraded the Model 500 into the Model 590 series and has started to get some police sales, but Remington still holds a vast majority of the market.

The bottom line of this story was that the gun makers had to stop making the old milled steel tanks and change to more modern designs.
Most went the cast aluminum receiver with stamped internals route and the guns just couldn't take the abuse.
Remington went with steel and heavy-duty fabricated internals and captured the market.
  #16  
Old 08-18-2010, 08:41 PM
21/503 21/503 is offline
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Thank you. My first issued shotgun was a Winchester Model 12 riot gun (produced in 1958) and it was a fine weapon. It was in great shape when (about 40 years later) the agency replaced all the old Winchesters with new 870's (and they wouldn't sell them to us either ).
  #17  
Old 08-18-2010, 08:53 PM
DPris DPris is offline
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My first PD in 1976 had at least two of the old 916s, probably more.
One day in a departmental training session a visiting out of town trainer was going over our equipment.
He asked if anybody in the room was carrying an S&W shotgun, and if so, could he see them.
Two guys went out in the parking lot & brought in their city-owned duty shotguns from their city vehicles for examination.

The trainer/instructor picked up the first one, checked to make sure it was unloaded, and the entire fore-end came completely off the gun when he racked it.
On the second one, after checking for empty, the trigger wouldn't pull. The action was cocked & locked, trigger essentially frozen.
He was puzzling over it until the officer it was issued to told him "You have to bang the buttstock on the floor first."
Disbelieving stare.
"No, really, you have to bang the buttstock on the floor and then the trigger'll pull."
Sho nuff- banged the butt smartly on the floor, and the trigger then functioned.
"I've seen these do a lotta strange things, but I've never seen one do THAT before!"

I was new & had not been offered a shotgun yet, but as soon as I got the money together I bought my own, and it was NOT an S&W.

The 3000s later were good guns.
The 916s, I wouldn't buy with YOUR money, shoot with YOUR hands, bet YOUR life on, or allow in YOUR house, much less spend my own money or risk my own life on.

There are so many better buys out there in older Remingtons, Mossbergs, and so on, that you can still get parts for & won't be quite as likely to fall apart in your hands.

Gunshows, gunshops, gun auction sites.
I'd really look around elsewhere if it's not too late.
S&W won't service the thing, and if somethings busts, it may not be replaceable.

Denis
  #18  
Old 08-18-2010, 08:57 PM
DPris DPris is offline
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Aw, for ****'s sakes, didn't even notice how old this thread was.
Denis
  #19  
Old 08-18-2010, 09:18 PM
21/503 21/503 is offline
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Neither did I, but thanks for the laugh Denis!
  #20  
Old 08-18-2010, 11:00 PM
DPris DPris is offline
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Gotta start paying more attention, I guess.
Denis
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