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  #1  
Old 09-12-2004, 12:31 PM
CallTheBall CallTheBall is offline
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Can I buy a rifle in AZ if I'm not a resident?




I live in CA and I want to buy a rifle at a gun store in AZ. I have never even thought about this before, but can I do it with a CA drivers license and walk out with a new rifle? I am not an Arizona resident.

Here in CA we have 10 day waits on ALL firearm purchases, so I am conditioned to think of a waiting period. For those wondering why I don't want to buy it here the answer is simple, they don't sell what I want here.


Thanks !
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  #2  
Old 09-12-2004, 12:44 PM
beans beans is offline
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Its my undertanding that you may purchase a long gun out of your home state, but are subject to the same restrictions of your home State. IE: Large mag capacity ETC

Example you could not purchase an AR -15 that doesn't met Calif laws out of Calif, if you are a Calif residence.

I beleive this was included to help a hunter whos rifle/shotgun broke while hunting out of state and they needed a replacement.
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  #3  
Old 09-12-2004, 12:45 PM
ddj8052 ddj8052 is offline
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Please do not take this the wrong way, but if you buy something in AZ that is not legal here in CA (such as an AR type, AK type FAL etc.) and bring it in to CA you are commiting a felony. You will not be able to shoot it as it will attract attention from LEO's. That said, I do not know wether or not the shop would sell to you or not. But I would not try it. This type of thing is what gives the liberals the ammo they need against law abbiding gun owners.
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  #4  
Old 09-12-2004, 01:28 PM
EOD Guy EOD Guy is offline
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You cannot purchase any firearms outside of California unless you have them sent to a California dealer for transfer. California law requires that all firearms transfers to unlicensed California residents must be processed through a licensed California firearms dealer. There are a few exceptions, but they don't appear to apply in your case.
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  #5  
Old 09-12-2004, 01:53 PM
magsnubby magsnubby is offline
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Try the DOJ web site:

www.caag.state.ca.us/firearms
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  #6  
Old 09-12-2004, 02:56 PM
CallTheBall CallTheBall is offline
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I guess I'll have a relative who lives in AZ buy it for me.
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  #7  
Old 09-12-2004, 05:37 PM
EOD Guy EOD Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CallTheBall
I guess I'll have a relative who lives in AZ buy it for me.

Also illegal, known as a straw purchase.

If the firearm you want is legal in California, you can purchase it in Arizona and have the dealer send it to a dealer in California for the transfer.
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  #8  
Old 09-12-2004, 09:16 PM
ctrmass ctrmass is offline
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I live in NJ and I can buy a long gun in Pa. I've done it.
Fill out the paperwork, show my D.L., NJFID card, fill out the questionnaire, and they make the $15.00 NICS call. Out the door.
A pistol is a whole other animal.
NJ is pretty screwed up as far as gun laws.
Eric

Edit: I didnt buy something that was illegal here, so cant speak for that other than as soon as you cross the border, youre an outlaw.

Last edited by ctrmass; 09-12-2004 at 09:21 PM.
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  #9  
Old 09-12-2004, 09:48 PM
ranburr ranburr is offline
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You can buy any legal long gun you want in another state. You cannot buy a pistol. CA law has nothing to do with the face to face transaction between yourself and the out of state dealer. What may be an issue is when you bring it back to CA if it is a prohibited long gun by CA law. Your out of state relative can buy you a gun and give it to you as a gift. People have been legally giving guns as gifts for generations, especially relatives. You can also purchase a gun from your relative. There is no time limit that he has to own it. If you make him an offer that is more than he paid for it, he can certainly justify selling it to you. Actually, he does not have to make a profit, but it will help your case if someone wants to make an issue of it(doubtful). Your relative can also loan you gun for an indefinite amount of time.

ranburr
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  #10  
Old 09-13-2004, 07:25 AM
E4MC E4MC is offline
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Basically, what it boils down to is that if the sale and transfer of the firearm takes place in AZ, the seller is under no obligation to obey CA law because CA has no jurisdiction in AZ or anywhere else outside CA. A seller transferring a firearm in AZ is only subject to AZ and federal law. By the same token, CA should not be able to prosecute you if you violate CA law while you are outside CA because, again, they have no jurisdiction outside of their own borders. Like the seller, you would only be subject to AZ and federal law. However, even though you can legally purchase a firearm (longarm or handgun), in AZ that would be illegal to purchase in CA, you could be prosecuted by CA if you brought that firearm into CA. If this is incorrect, please feel free to correct me.
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Last edited by E4MC; 09-13-2004 at 07:28 AM.
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  #11  
Old 09-13-2004, 09:35 AM
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Some of the advice here may get you into trouble - no dealer will sell you a gun, pistol or rifle, that he knows is illegal in CA. If you did manage to procure one you'd be commiting a felony bringing it back in to CA. Heck, if you could buy anything you wanted to I wouldn't have moved!
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  #12  
Old 09-13-2004, 09:48 AM
10MMGary 10MMGary is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EOD Guy
Also illegal, known as a straw purchase.
I won't pretend to know anything about California gun laws. But I thought I understood some of the federal laws. As long as the person is legally allowed to own a gun it is not a straw buy, is my understanding. My wife and other relatives have bought me guns as gifts. They were legally allowed to purchase the guns and so am I. So how is that a straw purchase ?
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  #13  
Old 09-13-2004, 10:01 AM
1911WB 1911WB is offline
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Mixed advice

In my understanding of gun laws you're getting a mixture of good & bad advice. In the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 (still in force) if a relative lives in another state, he/she cannot give a gun to the relative in another state without going through an FFL. "Straw" purchases are also illegal, and I would wanrt to avoid even the appearance of one. Remember if you are convicted of a felony, you will never again be eligible to purchase/own firearms- not worth the chance IMO.
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  #14  
Old 09-13-2004, 10:32 AM
Bimmercat Bimmercat is offline
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I am a Texas resident and recently bought a rifle in New Mexico, and have bought rifles in Louisiana as well. I believe, unless AZ is wrought with wierd gun laws like NJ, NY, CA or MD, you can buy a rifle as a non-resident.

New Mexico is pretty darn liberal (Kerry stickers on the backs of every other car...made me sick) and I was able to buy a Mauser in that state just as I would in Texas. I don't think AZ is morel iberal than NM (although it IS closer to CA).

Check local laws or call one of the biggie gun dealers like Davison's to check for sure.

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  #15  
Old 09-13-2004, 10:51 AM
ranburr ranburr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911WB
In my understanding of gun laws you're getting a mixture of good & bad advice. In the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 (still in force) if a relative lives in another state, he/she cannot give a gun to the relative in another state without going through an FFL. "Straw" purchases are also illegal, and I would wanrt to avoid even the appearance of one. Remember if you are convicted of a felony, you will never again be eligible to purchase/own firearms- not worth the chance IMO.
A relative can give you the gun in person. A FFL is only required if you are shipping the gun. But you can visit a relative in another state, they give you the gun and you drive or fly it home without involving an FFL. This happens quite often around Christmas every year.

ranburr
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  #16  
Old 09-13-2004, 11:05 AM
EOD Guy EOD Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10MMGary
I won't pretend to know anything about California gun laws. But I thought I understood some of the federal laws. As long as the person is legally allowed to own a gun it is not a straw buy, is my understanding. My wife and other relatives have bought me guns as gifts. They were legally allowed to purchase the guns and so am I. So how is that a straw purchase ?
Purchase as a gift is legal as long as both parties are residents of the same state.
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  #17  
Old 09-13-2004, 11:11 AM
EOD Guy EOD Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E4MC
Basically, what it boils down to is that if the sale and transfer of the firearm takes place in AZ, the seller is under no obligation to obey CA law because CA has no jurisdiction in AZ or anywhere else outside CA. A seller transferring a firearm in AZ is only subject to AZ and federal law. By the same token, CA should not be able to prosecute you if you violate CA law while you are outside CA because, again, they have no jurisdiction outside of their own borders. Like the seller, you would only be subject to AZ and federal law. However, even though you can legally purchase a firearm (longarm or handgun), in AZ that would be illegal to purchase in CA, you could be prosecuted by CA if you brought that firearm into CA. If this is incorrect, please feel free to correct me.

Federal law requires that the transaction comply with the laws of both states. An Arizona dealer would be violating Federal law by selling a firearm to an unlicensed California resident.
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  #18  
Old 09-13-2004, 11:14 AM
EOD Guy EOD Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranburr
A relative can give you the gun in person. A FFL is only required if you are shipping the gun. But you can visit a relative in another state, they give you the gun and you drive or fly it home without involving an FFL. This happens quite often around Christmas every year.

ranburr
I realize it happens, but it is also illegal under Federal law to give a firearm to an unlicensed resident of a different state.
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  #19  
Old 09-13-2004, 11:38 AM
CallTheBall CallTheBall is offline
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Wow, everyone added their 2 cents worth to this question. For those of you who want to know what the real deal is as far as my question it is this:

As you know the AWB will sunset today and I want to add some of these rifles to my collection. Here in CA we cannot possess them, but I will not have them here, they will be at a relatives house in AZ. They will not be brought into this oppressive state I call home for now. Does everyone understand that?

I want to be able to buy these guns with my own ID, a CA Drivers License, when I visit the state of AZ. I'm lucky to have a relatives who will store them for me. I know that I'm not the only guy to have thought of this. I obey the laws and always have. One thing is for sure, no law is going to keep me from owning what the residents of other states can own pertaining to assault rifles. I'll only be able to enjoy them a few times a year, but that is better than what I can do with them in CA.
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  #20  
Old 09-13-2004, 11:47 AM
obm obm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CallTheBall
I want to be able to buy these guns with my own ID, a CA Drivers License, when I visit the state of AZ. I'm lucky to have a relatives who will store them for me. I know that I'm not the only guy to have thought of this. I obey the laws and always have. One thing is for sure, no law is going to keep me from owning what the residents of other states can own pertaining to assault rifles. I'll only be able to enjoy them a few times a year, but that is better than what I can do with them in CA.
sounds legal to me. if i remember correctly, after the CA AWB was inacted, www.frontsight.com offered california residents the service of storing their post AWB purchases at their site(NV). nice thing about frontsight is that it's outside Las Vegas so you can shoot during the day and gamble at night.
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  #21  
Old 09-13-2004, 11:54 AM
NYCGunner NYCGunner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CallTheBall
Wow, everyone added their 2 cents worth to this question. For those of you who want to know what the real deal is as far as my question it is this:

As you know the AWB will sunset today and I want to add some of these rifles to my collection. Here in CA we cannot possess them, but I will not have them here, they will be at a relatives house in AZ. They will not be brought into this oppressive state I call home for now. Does everyone understand that?

I want to be able to buy these guns with my own ID, a CA Drivers License, when I visit the state of AZ. I'm lucky to have a relatives who will store them for me. I know that I'm not the only guy to have thought of this. I obey the laws and always have. One thing is for sure, no law is going to keep me from owning what the residents of other states can own pertaining to assault rifles. I'll only be able to enjoy them a few times a year, but that is better than what I can do with them in CA.

That's an important bit of info you left out then. Of course you can purchase it in AZ and keep it in AZ. You'll have no problems with that. While i was visiting my cousins in GA, i used my NYS driver license to rent handguns at a range. No problems; just had to go through the normal background checks.
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  #22  
Old 09-13-2004, 11:55 AM
E4MC E4MC is offline
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I guess I was mostly wrong. This is form the NRA ILA's website.

"Provided that federal law and the laws of both the dealer`s and purchaser`s states and localities are complied with:

An individual 21 years of age or older may acquire a handgun from a dealer federally licensed to sell firearms in the individual`s state of residence
An individual 18 years of age or older may purchase a rifle or shotgun from a federally licensed dealer in any state
It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer a firearm unless the federal firearms licensee receives notice of approval from a prescribed source approving the transfer.

Sale of a firearm by a federally licensed dealer must be documented by a federal form 4473, which identifies and includes other information about the purchaser, and records the make, model, and serial number of the firearm. Sales to an individual of multiple handguns within a five-day period require dealer notification to the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Violations of dealer record keeping requirements are punishable by a penalty of up to $1000 and one year`s imprisonment.

Sales Between Individuals

An individual who does not possess a federal firearms license may not sell a firearm to a resident of another state without first transferring the firearm to a dealer in the purchaser`s state. Firearms received by bequest or intestate succession are exempt from those sections of the law which forbid the transfer, sale, delivery or transportation of firearms into a state other than the transferor`s state of residence."
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  #23  
Old 09-13-2004, 01:29 PM
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Valkman Valkman is offline
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I still don't think it'll work, as I don't believe a dealer will sell you a weapon that's illegal in CA - unless you have dual residency. Otherwise once they see your CA DL I don't think you'll be able to legally buy it.

Now if someone else buys it and you just shoot it now and then....that's about the only way it will work.

I believe the storage at FrontSight was for "assault weapons" that people wanted to take out of state so they wouldn't have to register them. Again, no one in NV is going to sell a CA resident a gun that is illegal in CA.

Quote:
I want to be able to buy these guns with my own ID, a CA Drivers License, when I visit the state of AZ. I'm lucky to have a relatives who will store them for me. I know that I'm not the only guy to have thought of this. I obey the laws and always have. One thing is for sure, no law is going to keep me from owning what the residents of other states can own pertaining to assault rifles.
Well, good luck! I think the laws WILL keep you from buying a gun! No, you're not the first one to think of this - it's why alot of us don't live in CA anymore. Now I worry about how long it'll take for the ATF to approve my full-auto UZI!
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  #24  
Old 09-13-2004, 01:52 PM
CallTheBall CallTheBall is offline
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I just got off of the phone with a guy at a popular gun shop in Prescott, AZ and he said that I CANNOT buy any gun in their store with a CA Drivers License. This is not what I wanted to hear, to say the least and it didn't sound right to me.

So basically, they are keeping me legal because I'm a CA resident who just happens to be in AZ

Funny thing is, last year I was able to buy a CZ52 and an Albanian SKS with my C&R FFL last year and I walked out of the store with them.
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  #25  
Old 09-13-2004, 01:57 PM
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I didn't think you'd be able to do it. C&R guns are different, and they're not illegal in CA like the guns you want to buy now.

If I were you I'd look into dual residency and use your relative's address. Once you get a AZ driver's license then you're set. There's a member here "Harley Rider" who has dual residency in CA and AZ - PM him and see if he can help you. I've bought guns from him and he's a good guy.
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