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  #1  
Old 08-27-2004, 06:41 PM
EOD EOD is offline
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Para Ordnance 'Investment Cast ?"




I was going to buy a PO LTC, and the rep told me that it was forged frame and slide. Looking itto it further, PO says they're Investment cast. I've went with forged guns, except the glock, and just don't feel comfortable with the cast frame and slide. Any input on this issue?
  #2  
Old 08-27-2004, 06:46 PM
Calvert1 Calvert1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EOD
I was going to buy a PO LTC, and the rep told me that it was forged frame and slide. Looking itto it further, PO says they're Investment cast. I've went with forged guns, except the glock, and just don't feel comfortable with the cast frame and slide. Any input on this issue?
If done properly, there is no reason to be wary of a cast slide/frame. Para Ordnance has a good rep for reliability, so I woudn't let the cast -vs- forged issue influence my decision too much.
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  #3  
Old 08-27-2004, 10:28 PM
Mopars&eagles Mopars&eagles is offline
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Ruger uses investment casting on ALL of their frames and recievers, and I doubt you will find a stronger gun than a Ruger. Just check a reloading manual. For example, there is .45 Colt and then .45 COlt for Ruger and Contender ONLY. Just try to drill and tap something on a Ruger and you'll see. I tried to install a swivel stud on the front of my mini-14. I ruined 7 drill bits and 3 taps to get the job done. If done properly, investment cast steel is EXTREMELY tough stuff.
  #4  
Old 08-28-2004, 12:19 AM
ranburr ranburr is offline
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As for Rugers toughness, I have had a NIB Ruger Redhawk .357 magnum send its' barrel down range with the sixth shot in the first cylinder shot through it. The ammo was factory Winchester 158 grain hollowpoints and the cause was a flaw in the casting. I have also had a Auto Ordinance crack its' cast frame inside of a couple of hundred factory rounds. In addition to this I am in the oilfield business and I work with machine shops on a daily basis. We use no cast products in our downhole tools for a numbe or reasons. Cast products do not have high enough ratings in the categories of shock, vibration and temperature. I am not anti-Para, in fact I am going to buy a LDA Carry. But, I will say this, even quality casting is not at the same level as a forging.

ranburr
  #5  
Old 08-28-2004, 12:46 AM
sabalo sabalo is offline
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Po Ltc

I've had mine for 3 months now. Over 1200 rounds thru it. Fit & finish are great. No problems with it and it shoots like a dream. - Sabalo
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Para LTC, alloy, .45 ACP
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  #6  
Old 08-28-2004, 08:38 AM
robertbank robertbank is offline
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Haven't read many complaints about the LTC/SSP from Para. - Read none. The guns are awsome. Let Para know who the Rep was that told you the frames were forged. The aren't and I don't understand why a rep would indicate otherwise. There is nothing wrong with cast frames or slides, just another way of getting to the same place with less cost - translates in to a gun we mortals can afford.

Aside from Ranburr blowing up his Ruger I have not heard of many other cast failures. Certainly Rugers have a reputation for strength. Their .44 Mag's are said to be as good as they get and I have heard nobody suggest they are weak guns because of the cast frames.
  #7  
Old 08-29-2004, 10:30 AM
Hunter Customs Hunter Customs is offline
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The arguement of cast versus forged has been around along time in the gun business. There's always other things compared that are forged or cast everything from drill bits to crankshafts which still proves nothing when we are talking about guns and there intended use. There's different ways of creating a forged part and to my understanding true hammer forged is the strongest and gun parts are not true hammer forged. I've built and shot many different raceguns that were put to very high degrees of stress because of the loads being used in them. I would say the one I put through more stress than any was an All Sport Forty racegun built using a P-16 Para as the base gun. Yes this gun was built using the Para frame and slide and survived going past the 100,000 round count of some very high pressure loads. I might add that the only frame that I've ever had break on me was a forged frame from a very well known stateside manufactures gun. This is not saying that forged is worse than cast as this is only one example out of a large amount of frames built. All this being said I believe you can get a good or bad frame or slide from either method and I certainly have no worries about building a great gun using a good quality cast frame or slide.
I'm sure the arguement of cast versus forged will last way past my time and good guns will continue to be built using both methods.
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  #8  
Old 08-29-2004, 04:40 PM
care-less care-less is offline
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I have a secondary question. I know that Para's frames are cast; but I understood that their slides are forged! Which is it?
  #9  
Old 08-29-2004, 07:14 PM
mxracer101 mxracer101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by care-less
I have a secondary question. I know that Para's frames are cast; but I understood that their slides are forged! Which is it?
Para uses investment castings for frames and slides.

http://www.paraord.com/pages/innovat...#manufacturing
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  #10  
Old 12-25-2005, 04:26 AM
Altarr Altarr is offline
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I have a Para LTC and within the first month the right grip cracked up the middle, the front sight flew off and was lost then for the finally the frame broke while shooting on the range.
  #11  
Old 12-25-2005, 06:35 AM
Canuck-IL Canuck-IL is offline
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Quote:
Para uses investment castings for frames and slides.
Nope...from the current Caspian catalog..."Forged Slides: Caspian machines slides from our own pre-heat treated, certified, 4340 hi-carbon steel or 416 Stainless forgings." [pg 24]

The frames are cast by Pine Tree Casting, a division of Ruger. [pg 7]

/Bryan
  #12  
Old 12-25-2005, 02:50 PM
robertbank robertbank is offline
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Altarr

I assume Para replaced the pistol. We have to know more.

Stay Safe
  #13  
Old 12-25-2005, 09:14 PM
Nick A Nick A is offline
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As Bob noted, I would like Altarr to expand on his report so that all forum members can learn from such an unusual experience. Seldom does anyone experience that level of failure so quickly. This might be very interesting and educational.

But I noticed that the original thread was over a year old. Perhaps a moderator might consider moving Altarr to a new thread where we can identify and follow it more conveniently.

Merry Christmas, everyone.
  #14  
Old 12-25-2005, 09:36 PM
Paten Paten is offline
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Since it looks like he was banned, I don't think Altarr will be able to respond.
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