New Mexico Concealed Carry Training in Dec.

[mcgrubbs]

I have three concealed carry classes scheduled for December. Cost is $100 per man. Class is all day Saturday, and a few hours on Sunday.

Class Dates:
Dec. 8/9
Dec. 15/16
Dec. 22/23

Give me a call if interested.

Monty Grubbs
505-365-5098

[Sistema1927]

Since mcgrubbs is in Artesia, hopefully this won't be seen as "competition".

The Zia Rifle & Pistol Club in Albuquerque is offering CCW classes beginning in November for $65.00. Initial classes will be for members only, but with the class size of 200, it is probable that non-members will be able to participate soon. The classes are held on successive Saturdays with one day for classroom and the following Saturday at the range.

For more details, see Zia's website.

BTW, mcgrubbs price seems very fair, I have seen private concerns in the Albuquerque area want as much as $200.00 for this class.

[mcgrubbs]

Dang,
200 students in one class?!? I'll bet that is quite a sight to see all of them qualifying on the next Saturday!

On a more serious note:
Some people around these parts are also saying that training classes in Albuquerque are going for $300 or $400. Depending on who you talk to.

Guess who started the rumor?
The guys giving classes in the town directly south of me. About a half hour away.

[Andy]

I think Sistema 1927 meant that the initial client base for class sizes are the 200 Zia members. We'll have to see how this shakes out before letting non-members join in.

[mcgrubbs]

That is what I thought too. Until I looked at their web page. It seems they are teaching it at a large building on the state fairgrounds. I am pretty sure it would be big enought to hold a few hundred students.

[Sistema1927]

No, I had it correct the first time. The maximum class size is 200. We will be meeting in the Flower Building at the State Fair Grounds for the classroom portion, and have reserved all of the West ranges at Zia for the shooting portion. This would include the benchrest ranges, 4 pistol berms, and the plinking range. The indoor range building will be utilized to show CCW videos and to allow folks to come in out of the cold between stages.

Each student will be allowed to bring up to three weapons, and will fire 100 rds. each, 50 for practice and 50 for the proficiency demonstration.

Zia has approx. 960 members, so it might be a little whilc before non-members are allowed to participate.

[Sistema1927]

Well, there were 200+ at the classroom portion this past Saturday. Also in attendence were Judy Vanderstar Russell (the sponsor of our CCW bill, and running for Lt. Governor),John Sanchez (who defeated Raymond Sanchez in the House and is contemplating a run for Governor), and one other legislator (sorry, I can't remember his name). Channel 7 News wanted to come in and film, but they were made to wait outside and do interviews with only those individuals who chose to talk to them.

A full day of classroom instruction, and a catered lunch and snacks as well.

Next Saturday is the range portion, and we will all be allowed to qualify with up to three different weapons. They have already squaded based on experience level, and it looks like they have a good plan to get everyone qualified. In addition to the state mandated qualification course we will also shoot 4 other scenarios, see some videos, etc.

Not bad for $65.00.

[mcgrubbs]

Sounds pretty good Sistema,

Keep us posted. I am completely booked up thru Febuary now. Honestly, for me, the money is pretty good! I did see the report on Channel 7 this weekend. I wasn't quite sure why the media was kept out. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't bother me, I just didn't see why.

Honestly every bit of good coverage we can get for concealed carry, is needed.

I did take issue with one comment by a student in your class. He was a former police officer himself, and made what I consider to be a pretty outlandish and dangerous statement. He stated he was getting a permit to help out, or back up, the police officers on the streets in Albuquerque. That is not what these permits are intended for!!

Also, beware: The permits will be approved on time, but the actual licenses may not. The state originally contracted with one technology company to put the actual licenses together and print them out. The state let that company's contract run out and did not renew with them. Went with another company. Now this company is trying to get up to speed on what to do , and how to do it. Possibly might be some delays.

If anyone needs good, intelligent info on NM CCW call Suzanne at NM DPS, ext 1113. She's great!

[Sistema1927]

Yep, I saw that Channel 7 report as well, and my wife can attest that the first words out of my mouth when hearing that "former police officer" were "What an idiot!" That guy must have slept through most of the class, since it was stressed numerous times that CCW is neither vigilanteism nor police back-up but rather personal self-defense.

The reason the cameras were kept out was due to the fact that they wanted to film the class participants. Our attorney quickly pointed out to them that they were going to have a hard time getting releases from the more than 200 people in the room, something that would be required to protect our right to privacy.

I will post an update after the shooting portion this next Saturday. Have a blessed Thanksgiving.

[Sistema1927]

That ba$tard Jim Baca!

Now we won't see CCW until at least after March of 2002, if then.

I don't know whether we will still have the shooting portion of our class this Saturday. Doesn't the certificate of proficiency have to be less than 60 days old at the time the license is granted?

Are you still going ahead with your classes in Artesia?

[mcgrubbs]

As of today, classes are still on. I haven't had any phone calls from students pulling out yet!

I don't know for sure about the 60 day thing, I 'll check.

Baca is nothing more than a tired, pissed off little troll looking for some type of revenge on the city of Albuquerque for his complete thrashing at the polls. He knew he was going to lose, the city council had twice voted down a local ban, and he was mad!!

Seriously, years ago, my father had some close personal dealings with Baca when he worked at the state land offices. My father worked in the oil and gas industry. He said then that Jim Baca should never be trusted by anyone, that he was as sorry a person as he had ever met. My father never said a harsh word about people, but he knew how bad a person Baca truly was. That about solves it for me.

Keep your fingers crossed, and write your reps and senators, write the Supreme Court also. This fight won't be easey or quick, but I think we can win.

[mcgrubbs]

Hey Sistema,

I just finished looking at my copy of the rules for NM CCW. It says the proficiency certificate cannot be more than 90 days old when the application is FILED with the DPS. So, even if someone took the class last month, as long as the file their application within 90 days, they are good to go.

That says it all to me.

[Sistema1927]

We are still shooting the proficiency course this morning.

Yes, the 90 days is correct. However, we don't know, at this point, whether DPS is going to accept application filings during this interim period. If they don't, then Zia intends to re-issue the certificates, due to the fact taht nothing in the regs. states that you have to reshoot. Yet, if DPS says that we have to, we will do that anyway.

More shooting? Sounds good to me!

Good luck in Artesia.

[mcgrubbs]

Sounds good to me as well!

Monty

[Sistema1927]

Only about 10-15 of the original classroom participants failed to show for the shooting portion on Saturday. It was fantastic to see that many law-abiding citizens involved.

I really wish that both Jim Baca and the NM Supremes could have witnessed this. Not a single wild-eyed-fanatic in the bunch! Just normal men and women from evey walk of life. I only counted two people wearing any camoflage, and one of these was a young lady with a camo t-shirt under her very fashionable leather jacket.

I qualified with four weapons: .45 semi-auto (My Sistema 1927), 9mm semi-auto (Glock 26), .38 revolver (S&W 642), and .22 revolver (S&W 17). For each weapon, no misses, no malfunctions. Also did very well on the practical scenarios using the G26. I probably shot as well today as any other time in my life. In fact, I think that this was about as much fun as one can have with his clothes on!

It was really neat to see 20 people at a time on the competency line, and know that in the next few minutes 1,000 rounds of ammo would be expended.

It is also important to note that the day came off without a hitch, and ran very smoothly. The folks at Zia did a very professional job. Even though it looked easy, I know that many hundreds of hours of work went into setting this up. Thanks!

[mcgrubbs]

Sistema,

You say you qualified with a .22??

By law the pistol must be a .32 or larger to qualify with. Surely, the folks at Zia realize this.

I had two women drop out of my Dec. 15/16 class today. Said they will call me back in March. Hope they don't expect to go to the front of the line in March though!!

[Sistema1927]

Yep, I said a .22 caliber.

If you read the statute, you will see that it reads: "An applicant will not be licensed unless he demonstrates, at a minimum, his ability to use a handgun of .32 caliber" (NMSA 1978 29-18-7)(You will also note that the DPS regulations on demonstrating competency do not mention the .32 caliber minimum). It does not say that you cannot demonstrate proficiency with a smaller caliber once you have demonstrated proficiency with at least .32 caliber.

As a result, once one has qualified on at least .32 caliber, he can then qualify on .22 or even .25. Since I had already qualified with .45, .38, and 9mm, then no problem. This will allow me to pocket my NAA mini-revolver for a "New York reload".

This was something that one of our instructors clarified with DPS.

[mcgrubbs]

I stand corrected!

I, honestly, would not want to carry anything smaller than a .380.

I will not recommend to any person, student or not, that a .22 is a defensive caliber to carry. If I cannot stop an assailant with between 8 and 22 rounds of 45ACP, why will a .22 sudenly work. Not that I think it will never work, I just see it as a moot point.

"Why throw Beetles, when you can throw Greyhound buses?" Clint Smith

[Sistema1927]

Well, it is all a moot point now.

As of yesterday, DPS is no longer accepting CCW applications. That means that once this thing is resolved, they will still have an additional 60 days before having to issue any permits.

My best guess, for the pool, is September 1, 2001.

I agree with you concerning minimum caliber. I will carry nothing smaller than 9mm or .38 Special as my primary weapon, but the additional 5 rounds of .22 tucked in the pocket are comforting in case of a SHTF situation.

[mcgrubbs]

I don't know.

If the case is resolved by mid April, I think we will see permits mailing out by mid May. Remember, the DPS already had applications ran through and ready for permits to be printed.

It's aggravating that one little pissed off troll can ruin or hold up everything for everyone else!!!