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  #1  
Old 07-30-2004, 03:06 AM
JTWard JTWard is offline
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Sympathetic Discharge?




I've heard of adjacent chambers in a cap & ball revolver discharging when the gun is fired, but what about on a cartridge revolver? On CSI:Miami the other night a victim was supposedly shot twice -once by the bullet that came through the barrel and a second time by a bullet that came out of an adjacent cylinder hole, went past the frame and barrel and hit the victim a couple inches from the first entrance wound.

They said the recoil of the first shot caused the second discharge. They made a point of saying it only happens with really cheap, poorly made handguns. The gun used in the show looked like an Arminus or RG.

It sounds like typical Hollywood BS to me, but anybody ever hear of this happening?

BTW, anyone else catch actor Ben Affleck on Fox with Bill O'Reilly the other night? Affleck was supporting Kerry and mostly spouting the typical party line, but he really surprised me when he said he isn't in favor of more gun control.

"I believe in the entire Bill of Rights, including the Second Amendment," he said. Right on, Ben! Later, during the same conversation, he repeated his lack of support for gun control, and he called Kerry "a big gun guy" who won't push for additional firearms legislation. I don't know how true that is, but since I think Kerry is likely to win, it does given one some hope.
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Old 07-30-2004, 04:55 AM
silvercorvette silvercorvette is offline
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I think it is TV BS. How can a bullet go off without something hitting the primer hard enough for it to ignite the powder
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  #3  
Old 07-30-2004, 05:00 AM
J Randal J Randal is offline
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Well, CSI IS set in Vegas, and we all know what can happen out there.
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  #4  
Old 07-30-2004, 06:34 AM
Bluetooth Bluetooth is offline
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If you could get the round to fire it would not have any velocity with a 1/8" cylinder/ barrel.
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  #5  
Old 07-30-2004, 07:10 AM
silvercorvette silvercorvette is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Randal
Well, CSI IS set in Vegas, and we all know what can happen out there.
Nope go back and read the post
I've heard of adjacent chambers in a cap & ball revolver discharging when the gun is fired, but what about on a cartridge revolver? On CSI:Miami
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  #6  
Old 07-30-2004, 07:12 AM
silvercorvette silvercorvette is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluetooth
If you could get the round to fire it would not have any velocity with a 1/8" cylinder/ barrel.
Reguardless of velocity I don't see how it could ever get a primer to ignite in the first place.
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  #7  
Old 07-30-2004, 08:42 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
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A co-worker had a cheap .22 that would fire a round in an adjacent chamber. Apparently the cylinder had so much end play that it would bounce around in recoil and whack another cardridge against the rough breech hard enough to fire it. A lot of the stuff on CSI is McGyver grade but this one is not impossible.

On the other matter JT mentions...
Affleck was lying. Or stupid enough to have swallowed Kerry's line. Kerry has voted against gun owners' rights at every opportunity, even while missing sessions on other bills.
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  #8  
Old 07-30-2004, 08:55 AM
WSB WSB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTWard
"I believe in the entire Bill of Rights, including the Second Amendment," he said. Right on, Ben! Later, during the same conversation, he repeated his lack of support for gun control, and he called Kerry "a big gun guy" who won't push for additional firearms legislation. I don't know how true that is, but since I think Kerry is likely to win, it does given one some hope.
No hope here JT. Kerry's antigun voting record is VERY clear. He also is buddy, buddy with Fienstien and family. The whole Democratic strategy this year is to SEEM to not be antigun while still keeping the belief that guns are evil. They will talk about "Gun Safety" to skirt the real issues. First freedom magazine had a good right up about this.
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Old 07-30-2004, 08:56 AM
silvercorvette silvercorvette is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson
A co-worker had a cheap .22 that would fire a round in an adjacent chamber. Apparently the cylinder had so much end play that it would bounce around in recoil and whack another cardridge against the rough breech hard enough to fire it. A lot of the stuff on CSI is McGyver grade but this one is not impossible.

On the other matter JT mentions...
Affleck was lying. Or stupid enough to have swallowed Kerry's line. Kerry has voted against gun owners' rights at every opportunity, even while missing sessions on other bills.
I was thinking of centerfire, I guess with rimfire it might be a small possibality
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  #10  
Old 07-30-2004, 09:44 AM
TheOklahomaKid TheOklahomaKid is offline
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I seem to recall hearing about this happening with a centerfire revolver... one of the big boomers, IIRC. I can't tell you any more than that, unfortunately. I DO know that this was a big problem on that old Colt percussion revolving carbine from the Civil War era... it had a nasty tendency to fire all six cylinders at once, leaving the shooter minus fingers if he was using the traditional rifle hold.
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  #11  
Old 07-30-2004, 09:50 AM
ccw007 ccw007 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTWard
BTW, anyone else catch actor Ben Affleck on Fox with Bill O'Reilly the other night? Affleck was supporting Kerry and mostly spouting the typical party line, but he really surprised me when he said he isn't in favor of more gun control.

"I believe in the entire Bill of Rights, including the Second Amendment," he said. Right on, Ben! Later, during the same conversation, he repeated his lack of support for gun control, and he called Kerry "a big gun guy" who won't push for additional firearms legislation. I don't know how true that is, but since I think Kerry is likely to win, it does given one some hope.
Bill Clinton said he did not have sexual relations with Monica too . I trust Democraps about as much as I do rattlesnakes. Is anyone aware of a bill Kerry voted for that would protect our 2nd Amendment rights? I know of several Kerry and Edwards voted from that would restrict our 2nd Amendment rights.
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  #12  
Old 07-30-2004, 12:11 PM
Hannibal Lecter Hannibal Lecter is offline
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Ben Afflicted, not unlike ALL of the other liberal democrats, is not to be trusted on this, or any other, issue.

As for the John "The Poodle" Kerry, he is about as pro-gun as I am pro-Kerry. This posturing you've seen lately depicting the Poodle as a regular pro-gun good ol' boy with shotgun in hand, and "sharing the conservative values of Middle America", is completely phony and contrived, just to get votes.

Don't you cats believe these A-Holes. They're liars, all!

Dr. Lecter
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  #13  
Old 07-30-2004, 12:27 PM
USMCJPN USMCJPN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOklahomaKid
I seem to recall hearing about this happening with a centerfire revolver... one of the big boomers, IIRC. I can't tell you any more than that, unfortunately.
It was believed that the S&W 500 was doing this when it first came out with the big loads ie Corbon 440 grain. What was actually happening was the intense recoil was making some shooters who weren't ready for the power to pull the trigger again causing a double action shot. Without a barrel to go through, even if the bullet did go off it wouldn't hit the target.
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  #14  
Old 07-30-2004, 12:59 PM
Mike Echo Mike Echo is offline
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The muzzleloaders

didn't set off another cylinder by setting off the percussion cap but by flashing across the cylinder end and setting off the powder around the ball. I haven't done much myself but think thats one reason they use the grease on the end of the cylinders.
Mike
(of course I may be off base her... not that it's unfamiliar territory)
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  #15  
Old 07-30-2004, 01:19 PM
steveno steveno is online now
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I believe this happened with the S & W 500 and that is the reason why the case was redesigned to use the large rifle primer instead of the large pistol primer.
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  #16  
Old 07-30-2004, 06:11 PM
silvercorvette silvercorvette is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Echo
didn't set off another cylinder by setting off the percussion cap but by flashing across the cylinder end and setting off the powder around the ball. I haven't done much myself but think thats one reason they use the grease on the end of the cylinders.
Mike
(of course I may be off base her... not that it's unfamiliar territory)
I haven’t shot my percussion revolver in a long time but the guy that taught me told me to use Crisco or a product called spitball. It prevented the burning powder from flashing over to the adjoining cylinder and setting it off. The Crisco acted as a seal or barrier to prevent flash over.
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  #17  
Old 07-30-2004, 06:28 PM
silvercorvette silvercorvette is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveno
I believe this happened with the S & W 500 and that is the reason why the case was redesigned to use the large rifle primer instead of the large pistol primer.
From what I learned about the problem on the S&W forum was that under heavy loads the primer would back out a bit and the firing pin would puncture the primer. The hot gasses escaping from the hole in the primer could cause damage to the firing pin. The fix was to switch to the rifle primers. As far as double firing goes I have heard it was caused because of operator error, and I have also heard the problem was caused by the gun design. I thing the most believable theory was it was a combination of both. What I heard was that since it doesn’t happen to all shooters it was a shooter problem, but since something like that should never happen regardless of what the shooter does S&W redesigned the gun so the the double bang wouldn’t occur no matter what the shooter does.
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Old 07-30-2004, 07:01 PM
TheOklahomaKid TheOklahomaKid is offline
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Yeah, I know about the 500 S&W phenomenon... high-speed photography reveals that it's sort of an involuntary doubletap brought on by a combination of the gun's recoil, and a shooter not using proper technique to manage said recoil. There's a reason why most of the successful monster revolvers are single-action... but yeah, I think it was thought at first to be sympathetic discharge. That's probably what I was thinking of.
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Old 07-30-2004, 07:23 PM
Tac Four Tac Four is offline
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I don't trust Kerry. Why does what Ben Aflac says carry any more weight than what you say? Just because they are celebs, that doesn't give their opinion more validity. For me, it carries less weight. They don't understand the real world.

I don't think I've ever seen a double action revolver where a neighboring cylinder wasn't obstructed by the crane/frame to some degree. Hey, it is Hollywood. Why would they ever let reality get in the way?
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Last edited by Tac Four; 07-31-2004 at 07:45 PM.
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  #20  
Old 07-30-2004, 08:00 PM
Jim Keenan Jim Keenan is offline
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The situation Jim Watson mentions has happened and I have seen it happen. It is not common, but in those poorly made revolvers, a .22 cartridge in an adjacent chamber can be set off when the cylinder recoils from firing.

They took a rare condition someone had learned about and used it for dramatic purposes, but yes, it has happened.

As for Kerry's gun position, he is playing the old gun ban line, saying that he doesn't want to take away sportsmen's hunting guns. But he defines those as single shot and double barrel shotguns, period. The plan is to first ban semi-auto rifles and shotguns plus pump rifles and shotguns as "assault weapons" that no "true sportsman" would use. Then will come bolt rifles as "military type sniper rifles". Lever actions may hang around for a while, under rigid controls, but they will go too. Handguns, of course, will be banned as soon as possible. They won't actually confiscate any guns. They will just ban manufacture and import and either ban or heavily tax transfers by bringing those guns under the NFA. The plan also includes a ban on inheritance, and a requirement that if a gun owner wants to get rid of a gun, or dies, the guns must be surrendered to the police.

But Kerry will not have lied. He will not have taken away any guns. See how simple it is? And the suckers believe him.

Jim
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  #21  
Old 07-30-2004, 10:43 PM
Shaitan Shaitan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluetooth
If you could get the round to fire it would not have any velocity with a 1/8" cylinder/ barrel.
Velocity would be drastically reduced but likely left with enough to do the job. Recall a police documentary show where the bullets found in the victims had no rifling on them which had investigators confused. When suspect was caught with a loaded revolver with bbl completely unscrewed and removed they knew pretty much had thier man. Thought it was a fairly infamouse crimminal but drawing a blank on who now???
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  #22  
Old 07-31-2004, 04:24 AM
TheOklahomaKid TheOklahomaKid is offline
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Check out the French Apache "knuckle-duster" revolver. No barrel on that one, either, IIRC.
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