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  #1  
Old 04-07-2003, 10:27 PM
Ten-Ring-Kimber Ten-Ring-Kimber is offline
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Wilson Combat barrel in a Para Ord?




Would a Wilson Combat Match Grade barrel work in a new Para Ordnance Para Tac Four? I found a barrel on the Wilson site, and i'm not sure if it's the same size. 4.25 inches = 4 1/4 inches, correct?

If so, then i'm guessing this would work, since both guns use a bushing and the barrels are the same length. Has anyone else tried a Wilson barrel in a Para Ord?

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 04-07-2003, 11:16 PM
Hunter Customs Hunter Customs is offline
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IS the Wilson barrel a full ramp barrel? If so which style of ramp does it have the Wilson/Nowlin or the Para/ Clark. You will need a barrel with a Para ramp and I can recommend two very good aftermarket barrels Ed Brown or Schuemann, I've had very good results using both. All this being said I've had very good results using Para barrels. Do you feel something is wrong with yours?
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  #3  
Old 04-08-2003, 07:39 AM
shane45-1911 shane45-1911 is offline
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I agree with Bob - Para barrels tend to be very good, when correctly fitted to the slide.
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  #4  
Old 04-08-2003, 02:09 PM
Ten-Ring-Kimber Ten-Ring-Kimber is offline
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I don't own any Para pistols at the moment, i don't own any guns at all. I sold them all to save up for my new Para Tac Four and all the accessories i will be adding on like two tone parts and such. I've read that Para barrels are excellent, but Wilson has a guarantee on their barrels to shoot 1/2 inches at 25 yards. Is a Para barrel capable of that kind of accuracy? Has anyone ever gotten those kinds of groups or better?




Last edited by Ten-Ring-Kimber; 04-08-2003 at 02:11 PM.
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  #5  
Old 04-08-2003, 02:43 PM
Ten-Ring-Kimber Ten-Ring-Kimber is offline
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http://www.wilsoncombat.com/store.cg...a7&L=eng&P=33C


That's the barrel i would like to have installed on my pistol, it's ramped, i'm not sure if it's the same ramp style as Para, i emailed both Para and Wilson about what style they use. Waiting for replies from them.



Thanks for the help! :-)
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  #6  
Old 04-08-2003, 02:55 PM
shane45-1911 shane45-1911 is offline
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No one can consistently shoot 1/2" groups at 25 yds - don't be swayed by the hype.

Para barrels are good, and can be made more accurate by proper fitting to the slide. A properly fit barrel bushing goes a long way to improve accuracy as well.

A Wilson match grade barrel will not outshoot anything, if the fit to slide and bushing is not correct.
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  #7  
Old 04-08-2003, 03:40 PM
Chaffdb Chaffdb is offline
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In short, no, that barrel will not work in a Para. "All ramped barrels are ramped for Wilson cut unless otherwise specified." The Wilson cut is otherwise known as the Wilson/Nowlin as mentioned above. Para uses a Clark/Para (or Clark/Para/Lissner) cut which is different.

Also, the propaganda says "In our barrel test fixture we routinely obtain test groups of 1/2' @ 25 yards; the accuracy is guaranteed to please YOU!" That is NOT guaranteeing a 1/2". Although I'm sure its a missprint, one quotation mark is for a foot not an inch (6" at 25 yards ?!?!?), but anyway they simply state that their barrels routinely do this out of a barrel test fixture, not out of a gun and not necessarily every one. I believe it is an approximation that the group size generally doubles by going from a barrel test fixture to being fitted in the gun. (EX: 1/2" at 25 yards in the test fixture, approximately 1" at 25 yards fitted in the gun in a machine rest) Of course that is not a bright line rule, just a generalization. I have read somewhere that Doug Koenig only uses barrels that will do 1/2" at 50 yards in a barrel test fixture for his Bianchi Cup guns. . .

As mentioned above, Para barrels are ok if fit decently. Otherwise, get a good quality Ed Brown, Schuemann, Barsto, etc and have it fit right by a good gunsmith. If done right it should shoot much better than you can hold it.
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  #8  
Old 04-08-2003, 04:42 PM
tut tut is offline
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Ten-Ring-Kimber

First, since you don't currently own any pistols at all and are considering buying a Para, maybe you also should consider changing your user name... just a suggestion.

I agree with Chaffdb... those results that Wilson posts are from a "test fixture" and not from a complete pistol.

Go back to the Wilson Combat web page and look at their "Classic Super Grade" pistol... it's their top of the line $3595.00 pistol, and you'll find that even at that high price, they only claim it will do 1" @ 25yd.

Imagine, all that, and for only $2900.00 more than you'll be paying for your Tac Four.

Enjoy your new Para when you do get it.
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  #9  
Old 04-08-2003, 07:25 PM
Newton Newton is offline
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1" groups @ 25 yards....

Well, let's say that you did get a pistola combo that was capable of a true 1" group at 25 yards. How would you ever actually prove it? A ranson rest, or robot shooter would be your best bet. In my opinion, any one who could ever shoot a 1" group off hand at 25 yards with standard sights is one amazingly lucky son of a gun. My money would be on never being able to do it again.

The fantasy of a super duper accurate combo is tres cool, but a good pattern all in the black at 15 yards will do the job, every day, any day. The rest is useless hype.

Let's face it. If you have a use, or even a need for 1" at 25 yards, you're gonna be spending a heck of a lot of money to have that custom beauty built for yourself, and you're gonna need a lot better than standard sights+you're gonna need the extra time to aim.
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Last edited by Newton; 04-08-2003 at 07:38 PM.
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  #10  
Old 04-08-2003, 09:18 PM
Ten-Ring-Kimber Ten-Ring-Kimber is offline
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I can't change my user name unless i make another account. And most forums won't let you do that because it comes up and says someone has already registered with this email adress. I'll try to change my name. I USED to own a Para Ordnance 12.45 LDA, but sold it along with all my other guns.
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  #11  
Old 04-09-2003, 10:22 AM
tut tut is offline
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Keep the name dude, don't take anything personally and only take half of what your read here (or anywhere else) seriously.

It's up to you to figure out which half.
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  #12  
Old 04-09-2003, 12:29 PM
bountyhunter bountyhunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ten-Ring-Kimber
I don't own any Para pistols at the moment, i don't own any guns at all. I sold them all to save up for my new Para Tac Four and all the accessories i will be adding on like two tone parts and such. I've read that Para barrels are excellent, but Wilson has a guarantee on their barrels to shoot 1/2 inches at 25 yards. Is a Para barrel capable of that kind of accuracy? Has anyone ever gotten those kinds of groups or better?
I'd agree the barrel and slide on a para are it's best features (the hideous MIM trigger and hammer are the worst along with the fit and finish).

I am not 100% confident Para guns are laid out to the standard 1911 specs. I had a problem with the guide rod in my 1640, so I was going to put in one I had as a spare. Problem was, the Para rod measured out about .012" thicker than a standard 1911 rod. The standard rod and reverse bushing fits in the Para (and cycles), but is loose at the barrel bushing end (because it's .012" narrower). Whether that .006" wobble would have hurt anything, I don't know but I didn't like it. So, I got a new rod from Para. Bottom line, not real sure if a standard 1911 barrel is going to fit exactly right.
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  #13  
Old 04-09-2003, 12:34 PM
bountyhunter bountyhunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ten-Ring-Kimber
I don't own any Para pistols at the moment, i don't own any guns at all. I sold them all to save up for my new Para Tac Four and all the accessories i will be adding on like two tone parts and such. I've read that Para barrels are excellent, but Wilson has a guarantee on their barrels to shoot 1/2 inches at 25 yards. Is a Para barrel capable of that kind of accuracy? Has anyone ever gotten those kinds of groups or better?
There is exactly one gun I know of that actually shoots 1/2" groups at 25 yards and that is a Ruger Competition target (.22) and it is built to do just that.

As for Para's, my 1640 is a tack driver when I hold it still. I shoot at a 1.25" black center at 50' and if I lean against the wall for arm steady, I can pump everything inside the black fairly easily, so that's about a 1" group size at that range. I would be surpised if this gun did not shoot 1.5" groups at 25 yards with premium ammo from a rest (I shoot the cheapest reload junk around).
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  #14  
Old 04-09-2003, 02:46 PM
Ten-Ring-Kimber Ten-Ring-Kimber is offline
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Thanks for the info guys. I know "SOME" stuff about guns, but am not really any kind of know it all on them. I'm very eager to learn more about them, especially 1911's. Thanks!
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