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  #1  
Old 10-23-2013, 04:55 PM
patrickH patrickH is offline
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Slide release chambering changes impact




At first I thought I was goofy. Now, I have repeated it, numerous times. If the slide closes with the slide lock release to chamber a round, my point of impact is dead on. If I rack the slide, or the normal operation cycles the round, my impact is couple inches to the right. I put ten rounds, fed one at a time, released the slide, dead on. Racked the first round, ran the mag, 2-3 inches to the right. Anybody know of a mechanical cause to such a thing? It's an American Classic Commander,
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  #2  
Old 10-24-2013, 12:24 AM
220swiftfn 220swiftfn is offline
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Rounds chambered by the act of firing the previous round having a different point of impact as those hand chambered is a long-known thing. This is why people testing with a ransom rest usually plug the first round into the backstop (or a different target) so as not to get misleading groups.

Now what I find VERY interesting is that the round chambered by slingshotting the slide is in the same group as the rounds chambered by firing in your pistol.

BTW, this it caused by the forces involved in a "normally loaded by recoil" vs. "loaded by hand" being just different enough that the parts involved can be in slightly different positions. So the cause would be attributable to dimensional tolerance.


Dan
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  #3  
Old 10-24-2013, 12:34 AM
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Snakeshooter17 Snakeshooter17 is offline
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It's just a matter of the pistol locking up differently. Ruger 10/22 rifles are notorious for doing this, especially the older ones. I haven't experienced it with a 1911 because I'm usually shooting at targets the size of soda cans or larger.
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  #4  
Old 10-24-2013, 05:30 AM
richpetrone richpetrone is offline
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Testing a gun for groups

Quote:
This is why people testing with a ransom rest usually plug the first round into the backstop (or a different target) so as not to get misleading groups.
People that shoot a first round from the gun then check for groups from a rest are actually getting misleading groups anyway. The true test of a gun's mechanical accuracy should be tested cold, from the first round chambered. The only reason a gun may shoot better after firing the first round off the target is because the gun does not lock up consistently compared to hand chambering a round versus continuous firing.

If a person wants to know how good there gun shoots for groups, it is misleading to throw a round down range first, then check for groups with follow up shots. Proper barrel fitting with a good match barrel will make the groups consistent regardless of how the ammunition is chambered.

Since all of my guns may be used for self defense and/or competition action pistol shooting, I check for goup size from a sand bagged rest from the first shot chambered. If I found the gun's first shot was always a "flyer" I would fix the gun! Fortunately, my guns group very well!

Last edited by richpetrone; 10-24-2013 at 05:33 AM.
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  #5  
Old 10-24-2013, 07:56 AM
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custom2 custom2 is offline
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Poor barrel fit is the likely culprit. If the gun doesn't lock up the same every time, POI shifts.
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  #6  
Old 10-24-2013, 08:03 AM
SPR_shooter SPR_shooter is offline
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Would also suspect poor barrel fit/lock up.

Load a magazine.
Fire one round from that magazine, off center or into another target.
Fire five rounds from said magazine.
How is it grouping?
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  #7  
Old 10-24-2013, 09:01 AM
patrickH patrickH is offline
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After the first round, it is pretty consistent. Maybe another trip to the range with it lubed excessively to see if anything changes. No pistol smiths nearby that I know of. (of course I am 40 miles from the grocery store so near is a relative term!) Maybe it's time to get a "learn to gunsmith"video for the 1911. I appreciate the thoughts. I was wondering if it could be barrel lock up/fit. I am pretty sure it isn't the way I'm holding.
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  #8  
Old 10-24-2013, 09:05 AM
patrickH patrickH is offline
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Would a stronger spring make lockup more consistent? It seems like the slide "sounds" more forceful when released with the release than just cycling. Maybe just imagination.
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  #9  
Old 10-24-2013, 08:54 PM
stevemaury stevemaury is offline
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Are you riding the slide forward? Don't.
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  #10  
Old 10-25-2013, 02:44 AM
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custom2 custom2 is offline
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When the gun is in lock up, does the barrel move downward if you press on it?
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  #11  
Old 10-25-2013, 03:38 AM
TREEMAN TREEMAN is offline
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Learn something new every day here !!
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  #12  
Old 10-25-2013, 04:34 AM
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MGould MGould is offline
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This is why a consistent pistol is an accurate one. Even a loosely fit gun that locks up consistently can be very accurate.

When a gunsmith fits a barrel to a slide and a frame to a slide he is trying to elimintate inconsistency in the operation. Getting rid of variables makes a gun behave the same each time it is fired. That makes a gun accurate.
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  #13  
Old 10-25-2013, 06:49 AM
matchman matchman is offline
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Read the end of this thread. It enlightened me on how much more these is to building a accurate pistol than barrel/slide/frame fit.
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=434537
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