1911Forum
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > General > General Gun Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-11-2013, 05:31 PM
cobrabubbles cobrabubbles is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 949
Texas DPS switching to 9mm?




Heard this in a few places now. 357 sig too expensive and too hard on guns. another reason being given is that advances in ammo have closed the gap a bit between the 357 (and 40cal) and 9mm. Sig 226 or M&P in 9mm to be issued starting next year.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-11-2013, 05:55 PM
Patrick Kelly Patrick Kelly is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 886
If it's true it's not too surprising. Modern ammunition has really closed the gap on handgun performance. Read that to mean all the common service rounds are as effective, or suck as bad as the rest, so such a change based on economics and shooter performance would make it a logical choice.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-11-2013, 06:11 PM
Reddog01 Reddog01 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Georgetown, TX
Posts: 662
Isn't the standard military issue now 9mm?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-11-2013, 06:12 PM
Hawkeye fan Hawkeye fan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Age: 35
Posts: 2,591
Only a matter of time before other departments that run the .357 Sig go back to 9mm or .40 to help save on money.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-11-2013, 06:46 PM
Lorenzo Lorenzo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye fan View Post
... to help save on money.
It's not just about money. 95% of shooters are able to make hits more accurately and faster with 9mm than other calibers.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-11-2013, 06:49 PM
tipoc tipoc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Redwood City, Calif.
Posts: 2,554
Quote:
Isn't the standard military issue now 9mm?
Yes since about 1986. There are a few exceptions but general issue is 9mm ball.

tipoc
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-11-2013, 07:05 PM
TEA TEA is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cleburne, TX
Posts: 1,176
I thought DPS had a list of approved handguns for their officers to choose to carry, which included handguns in .380 (for uncover work) 9mm, .357sig, .40 and .45acp. When I worked for Texas Building and Procurement, the state contract for DPS has several models and calibers on it. I just tried to look at the current term contract and couldn't find any items listed, though. Either they are in the midst of renewing the contract so are updating the price lists or they have changed the functionality of the Web sight.

My neighbor is a trooper. I'll ask him.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-11-2013, 07:18 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North Texas
Posts: 4,093
Seems like the 9mm and the 45acp are rising to the top insofar as overall customer preferences. No surprise here for a number of reasons, including a surge in interest on compact polymer designs (that work well for many persons' carry needs) and the huge popularity (almost a rediscovery) of the 1911.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Life Member

"Freedom is only a temporary thing unless it is backed by the blunt capability and willingness to fight back against evil with sufficient arms." -- Myself
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-11-2013, 07:31 PM
Road Rat Road Rat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 501
DPS??

Department of Public Safety??

Isn't that cute!!!

What ever happened to Highway Patrol?? Not politically correct??

I have absolutely no idea what all is included in DPS...............
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-11-2013, 07:35 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,132
Does this mean there is going to be a truck load of .357 Sigs for sale cheap at my local Cabelas? They can't sell all the LE trade ins they have now because no one wants a 40. 9 mm is the LE and military standard world wide.
__________________
I used to work for the government. Now they work for me.

Last edited by LostintheOzone; 10-11-2013 at 07:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-11-2013, 07:41 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North Texas
Posts: 4,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Road Rat View Post
DPS??

Department of Public Safety??

Isn't that cute!!!

What ever happened to Highway Patrol?? Not politically correct??

I have absolutely no idea what all is included in DPS...............
It is a long-standing and well-understood reference in Texas, originating before my lifetime. And it's not just the "Highway Patrol".

I really don't think it represents any political spin ... if it does, it was from a distant prior generation.

Added: There is a website if you wanted to learn more ... it's not a secret.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Life Member

"Freedom is only a temporary thing unless it is backed by the blunt capability and willingness to fight back against evil with sufficient arms." -- Myself

Last edited by chrysanthemum; 10-11-2013 at 07:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-11-2013, 07:42 PM
1BlackHarley 1BlackHarley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Road Rat View Post
DPS??

Department of Public Safety??

Isn't that cute!!!

What ever happened to Highway Patrol?? Not politically correct??

I have absolutely no idea what all is included in DPS...............
Arizona is DPS also. Got nothing to do with anything politically correct. They don't just patrol the highway here. They are the highest level of law enforcement in the state, and they have jurisdiction everywhere.
__________________
Kimber Custom II
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑβΕ
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-11-2013, 07:48 PM
TEA TEA is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cleburne, TX
Posts: 1,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Road Rat View Post
DPS??

Department of Public Safety??

Isn't that cute!!!

What ever happened to Highway Patrol?? Not politically correct??

I have absolutely no idea what all is included in DPS...............
The organization's name has nothing to do with political correctness. The Highway Patrol is just one division within the department. The Texas Rangers are another, as are the Capitol Police.

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/o...articles/mctrp

Last edited by TEA; 10-11-2013 at 09:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-11-2013, 08:35 PM
CavCop CavCop is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,113
It would be intresting if Texas DPS went to the 9MM. Years ago they had two options, the 9MM or the .45, both Sig's. Very few if any carried the 9MM, as the .45 was seen as hard hitting. After a few more modern shootings with vehicles and suspects with body armor, Texas DPS tested a few calibers and the .357 Sig came out on top. Durring the eval phase DPS had a few shootings where Troopers shot both both calibers .45 and .357 Sig. The .357 did better in just about every way when examined. The .45 was retired and the .357 Sig became trump. Now Texas DPS made a heck of a deal and bought Sig pistols with a contract for .357 Sig ammo. Texas DPS pays less for their .357 Sig ammo than most spend on .40 S&W ammo. Texas DPS does a lot of shooting vs other "Highway Patrols".

Now Texas DPS has been given a lot more funding and pay raises. I dont think they would go to the 9MM, but there could be cost factor (keep in mind Texas DPS runs LaRue rifles, SRT-8 Dodge 6.2L V-8's, has real machine guns, a small Navy fleet and Airforce that could give US Special Operations a run for the money).

I will check with some Troopers and Rangers I know and see what they know about it, but would be surprized if they went with a 9MM.

Texas DPS does drug interdiction (under cover and raids), boarder security (real actions vs what the feds do), VIP protection (state capitol, governer, judges, etc...), investigations (take over for smaller agencys), crime scene processing (a few crime labs that serve police/sheriffs and are even mobil), highway patrol (traffic enforcement, comerce, and crashes), law enforcement (county and rural areas), and many other things. The Texas Rangers fall under DPS, and only an idiot would think they were Highway Patrol when they show up on scene.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-11-2013, 09:50 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by CavCop View Post
Now Texas DPS has been given a lot more funding and pay raises. I dont think they would go to the 9MM, but there could be cost factor (keep in mind Texas DPS runs LaRue rifles, SRT-8 Dodge 6.2L V-8's, has real machine guns, a small Navy fleet and Airforce that could give US Special Operations a run for the money).
__________________
I used to work for the government. Now they work for me.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-11-2013, 10:15 PM
grubbylabs grubbylabs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Hansen ID
Posts: 304
Over the last few years most agencies in our state have been switching over to the 45, They all seem to be getting Glocks.
__________________
Sorry not only can I not spell, but I could not think of any thing funny to put here.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-11-2013, 10:24 PM
dj528 dj528 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Phila PA
Posts: 1,685
DPS adopted the Sig 1911 TacOps in 45 to great fanfare (from Sig) earlier this year. They also purchased SAO 226's in 9mm and 357 Sig. There are threads on the subject in the Sig subforum below.

One nice thing about some states, such as Texas, is that performance not politics drives decision making. The 357 Sig round is ideal for some units such as Highway Patrol where the 45 is preferable for urban environments.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-12-2013, 08:05 AM
CavCop CavCop is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,113
Talked with a long time Trooper who retired and then went back to DPS who is one of their firearm instructors and works the Austin/central Texas area (Academy and HQ dealings and over 30 years service). He said a while back (over a year ago) it was brought up to look at the 9MM again for an issue option for new Troopers. He said that as far as he knows it was dropped about as quick as it was brought up. Penitration was a key part.

So I would say its old news. It could change, but I would think the Trooper I talked to would know.

Texas DPS is big on "Officer Safety", if you cant shoot or cant fight, they dont want you or need you. DPS would not change to a 9MM just to help Troopers qualify. They might use the .357 Sig to weed out wimps and females...
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-12-2013, 08:32 AM
Eric Eric is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Fate, TX
Age: 51
Posts: 1,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by CavCop View Post
Texas DPS is big on "Officer Safety", if you cant shoot or cant fight, they dont want you or need you. DPS would not change to a 9MM just to help Troopers qualify. They might use the .357 Sig to weed out wimps and females...
Having quite a few friends who have graduated from the DPS academy this is probably one of the truest statements about the DPS academy. Though with the number of injuries/deaths in the hands on fighting/boxing they have toned it down a bit. Also the Sig 1911's were for the DPS SRT or Rangers if I remember correctly.
__________________
Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.

Pray for our Soldiers as you pass that Church...
Proud Father of a Cav Trooper...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-12-2013, 08:41 AM
jrtx jrtx is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North Texas
Posts: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by CavCop View Post
Now Texas DPS has been given a lot more funding and pay raises. I dont think they would go to the 9MM, but there could be cost factor (keep in mind Texas DPS runs LaRue rifles, SRT-8 Dodge 6.2L V-8's, has real machine guns, a small Navy fleet and Airforce that could give US Special Operations a run for the money).
I thought Bushmaster won that contract? Was that an internet rumor or did the DPS change?
__________________
"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive."

C. S. Lewis
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-12-2013, 10:40 AM
CavCop CavCop is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,113
To add to the weapons. Texas DPS got Busmasters in about 2005 (when I redeployed from my first tour in Iraq), we (Law Enforcement) did some training in Florence TX as they were building the new training facility and at the time issuing out the new AR's (I could look at a training Cert and give the exact week/month the new AR's were issued.

In about 2011-12 Texas DPS went with select fire Colt's and Larue .308's along with the Sig .45 (TacOps maybe?).

Prior to 2005 most DPS had Mini-14's. The Bushmasters are still "out there" or in armsrooms. But the Colts and Larues are issued out to those that go to high risk area's (most DPS guys I know do a few weeks/months in a high risk area for the pay and to get the new guns, the Larue's are sweet, did I say they were sweeeet?). As far as I know the .45 Sigs are mission guns and not daily duty guns.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-12-2013, 02:14 PM
midwest1911 midwest1911 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 930
It's interesting to find out that over a dozen LE departments are switching to the S&W M&P. Including San Antonio PD and Los Angeles County Sheriffs dept.

Is Glock losing ground to M&P?

San Antonio is going to the .40 S&W and LACSD is going to the 9mm. It doesn't say what they had previously.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore...%20PRFinal.pdf

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore...20Approved.pdf
__________________
Cocked, Locked, and Ready to Rock Doc -- Uncle Ted
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-12-2013, 02:26 PM
TEA TEA is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cleburne, TX
Posts: 1,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrtx View Post
I thought Bushmaster won that contract? Was that an internet rumor or did the DPS change?
When I was with TBPC, it was Bushmasters with Eotechs.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-12-2013, 02:27 PM
TEA TEA is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cleburne, TX
Posts: 1,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by CavCop View Post
To add to the weapons. Texas DPS got Busmasters in about 2005 (when I redeployed from my first tour in Iraq), we (Law Enforcement) did some training in Florence TX as they were building the new training facility and at the time issuing out the new AR's (I could look at a training Cert and give the exact week/month the new AR's were issued.

In about 2011-12 Texas DPS went with select fire Colt's and Larue .308's along with the Sig .45 (TacOps maybe?).

Prior to 2005 most DPS had Mini-14's. The Bushmasters are still "out there" or in armsrooms. But the Colts and Larues are issued out to those that go to high risk area's (most DPS guys I know do a few weeks/months in a high risk area for the pay and to get the new guns, the Larue's are sweet, did I say they were sweeeet?). As far as I know the .45 Sigs are mission guns and not daily duty guns.
Should have read this before I posted about the Bushmasters. I left TBPC/TPASS in 2008.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-12-2013, 02:51 PM
chgofirefighter chgofirefighter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobrabubbles View Post
Heard this in a few places now. 357 sig too expensive and too hard on guns. another reason being given is that advances in ammo have closed the gap a bit between the 357 (and 40cal) and 9mm. Sig 226 or M&P in 9mm to be issued starting next year.

That's not anything new, many LEO agencies "state, City, etc" are switching from .40 to 9mm, etc etc. Due to cost, advance ammo technology, training factors, female recruits, etc. I remember years ago when I was attending the ISP Academy, just a few short weeks before graduation a female cadet couldn't qualify with her issued Glock #22 .40 caliber, she eventually was fired. I wonder if things would of been different if the handgun were a 9mm?
__________________
Operation Noble Eagle, Operation Enduring Freedom, Operation Iraqi Freedom, U.S Army 82nd Airborne, U.S Air Force Military Police, Illinois State Police Trooper, Chicago Fire Dept Firefighter/EMT
NRA Lifetime Member, Utah CCW Instructor,
State of Illinois License Firearms Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, NRA RSO.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:44 AM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2011 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved