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  #1  
Old 06-20-2013, 08:12 PM
pacific23 pacific23 is offline
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Legal representation




I'm in Texas and thinking about joining up with Texas Law Shield, are there any members here who already belong and is there a better law firm to hang with.
Just trying to cover my butt .

Thanks in advance,
Lester
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  #2  
Old 06-20-2013, 09:43 PM
FNISHR FNISHR is offline
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What you need is an individual lawyer who knows you and is well experienced in trial practice generally, and criminal law in particular. Can't really build a relationship with one overnight, but it's doable over a period of time. I ate lunch with mine today.
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  #3  
Old 06-20-2013, 10:35 PM
pacific23 pacific23 is offline
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Here is a link to their out fit... http://www.uslawshield.com/texas/

I do not work for them or solicit for them , I'm just asking for info.
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  #4  
Old 06-20-2013, 10:37 PM
pacific23 pacific23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FNISHR View Post
What you need is an individual lawyer who knows you and is well experienced in trial practice generally, and criminal law in particular. Can't really build a relationship with one overnight, but it's doable over a period of time. I ate lunch with mine today.
The average cost to defend yourself is over $200,000.00 in legal fees IF you ever have to protect yourself so I am looking for something to CMA.
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  #5  
Old 06-21-2013, 06:38 AM
WalterGC WalterGC is online now
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Unless you're planning some kind of criminal activity, I don't see that you need to have a go-to lawyer on standby. Do you have a lawyer to represent you, in case you decide to rob a bank, steal a car, etc.??
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  #6  
Old 06-21-2013, 06:56 AM
RandyP RandyP is offline
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Reading their terms it looks to be a way to keep a lawyer not only on retainer but also covers the legal expense of going to court after a justifiable good shoot.

I would guess that they are able to offer this coverage, and I agree that costs would be massive otherwise, for such a low monthly stipend because statistically most clients will never use it?

Every CHL/CCW holder would be wise to have the business card of a good gun case attorney in their wallet, right next to their permit. As the smoke clears is NOT the time to be serarching for a lawyer's name and number.
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  #7  
Old 06-21-2013, 09:53 AM
DaMule_P13 DaMule_P13 is offline
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Originally Posted by RandyP View Post
Reading their terms it looks to be a way to keep a lawyer not only on retainer but also covers the legal expense of going to court after a justifiable good shoot.

I would guess that they are able to offer this coverage, and I agree that costs would be massive otherwise, for such a low monthly stipend because statistically most clients will never use it?

Every CHL/CCW holder would be wise to have the business card of a good gun case attorney in their wallet, right next to their permit. As the smoke clears is NOT the time to be serarching for a lawyer's name and number.
Good advice.
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  #8  
Old 06-21-2013, 12:15 PM
Laudanum Laudanum is offline
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That outfit also operates in Florida and another state, OK I think. In Florida they refer to it as "insurance". In Texas they make a point to say it isnt. Not sure why that is. I know their main office is in Texas. Maybe that's why or maybe it's a Florida law thing. I've been thinking about this (retained attorney) on and off for a while. Not through this group though. But I have checked out the website previously.
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  #9  
Old 06-21-2013, 04:32 PM
Denver1911 Denver1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterGC View Post
Unless you're planning some kind of criminal activity, I don't see that you need to have a go-to lawyer on standby. Do you have a lawyer to represent you, in case you decide to rob a bank, steal a car, etc.??
Wat he said.
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  #10  
Old 06-21-2013, 04:48 PM
sigsinglestack sigsinglestack is offline
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I prefer to deal directly with Satan...

Go through a lot of goat blood, tho.
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  #11  
Old 06-21-2013, 05:58 PM
Neko Neko is offline
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I am a member and have been for about a year. As a member, you can attend their seminars, receive their newsletter and emails, in addition to the basic protections. I only attended one seminar (cost was $5.00) and was very impressed with the presentations. No hard sell at all, even though there were a lot of nonmembers. From time to time, they will email actual situations or cases they had resolved or worked on, as well as tips and good basic advice. Very impressive if you believe every thing happened as they said it did. I have no reason to believe otherwise. All in all, I think they are for real, and I am happy with my membership. The real test is if something happens and you really need them. But I hope I never get to that stage.

Neko
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  #12  
Old 06-21-2013, 06:02 PM
JOE HOLCOMB JOE HOLCOMB is offline
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Wouldn't that make you look like some wannabe vigilante if you already had a firearm defense lawyer on retainer ???? I don't think most normal people do that is why I am asking.....
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  #13  
Old 06-21-2013, 06:04 PM
Cappi Cappi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacific23 View Post
The average cost to defend yourself is over $200,000.00 in legal fees
where'd that figure come from?
I presume from the marketing HYPE of that legal service.

so is that figure for a capitol crime?
aggravated assault??
Criminal and civil suit combined?


since they're using stats to SCARE you into buying their snake oil, why not search some other stats like;

1.) the percentage of gun owners actually have ti shoot in defense?.
2.) of that tiny minority that did have to shoot in defense, what percentage of them were criminally prosecuted for aggravated assault?

I'll take my chances and spend my money for ammo and training

YMMV


..L.T.A.
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  #14  
Old 06-21-2013, 06:09 PM
JOE HOLCOMB JOE HOLCOMB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappi View Post
where'd that figure come from?
I presume from the marketing HYPE of that legal service.

so is that figure for a capitol crime?
aggravated assault??
Criminal and civil suit combined?


since they're using stats to SCARE you into buying their snake oil, why not search some other stats like;

1.) the percentage of gun owners actually have ti shoot in defense?.
2.) of that tiny minority that did have to shoot in defense, what percentage of them were criminally prosecuted for aggravated assault?

I'll take my chances and spend my money for ammo and training

YMMV


..L.T.A.
Exactly....Insurance is only offered from big business unless they plan to make a substantial profit off of it !!!
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  #15  
Old 06-21-2013, 06:15 PM
Cappi Cappi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOE HOLCOMB View Post
Exactly....Insurance is only offered from big business unless they plan to make a substantial profit off of it !!!
I knew we agreed more than we disagreed, Joe!

..L.T.A.
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  #16  
Old 06-21-2013, 06:18 PM
JOE HOLCOMB JOE HOLCOMB is offline
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Originally Posted by Cappi View Post
I knew we agreed more than we disagreed, Joe!

..L.T.A.
Were both Buckeyes.....what you expect !!!
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  #17  
Old 06-21-2013, 07:12 PM
FNISHR FNISHR is offline
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Well, folks, I never said retain one in advance, just to have a relationship with one who you KNOW to have extensive trial experience, because with your future depending on it that's what it will take.

Ideally, you'd have a small-office lawyer near where you live. Ask around the LEO's in the community to get a lead or two. Perhaps make an appointment (and pay for it, if they charge for a first consultation) and get to know them a little bit. It's good to have someone who has something of a general practice so that they can do some more routine work for you, since that helps to keep the relationship going. But it's essential that they have extensive experience in actually trying matters, not just settling civil cases or pleading criminal cases, because you just can't develop that skill set and state of mind over night. I think a minimum of around 250 trials or more would be a good idea.

Civil trial experience counts for a lot here, because if you have to defend yourself you may well be more at risk from civil liability than criminal charges, or you might face both.

None of my approach is original. I read an article a couple of years ago where Masad Ayoob suggested the same thing, and I've heard a couple of firearms instructors around here advocating the same thing. I put my plan in place by consulting the lady who does estate stuff for my family, and who I've known for years. She's a former 10-year prosecutor (major felonies) who still defends criminal cases as well as doing civil trial work. She even likes to shoot as well. Now, we're each other's lawyers.

I'm sure some of the pre-paid legal work plans do okay, but I've never seen one handle a shooting defense. Some of the prepaid group work I've seen done in other areas of the law has been discouraging, to say the least. YMMV.
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  #18  
Old 06-21-2013, 08:01 PM
JOE HOLCOMB JOE HOLCOMB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FNISHR View Post
Well, folks, I never said retain one in advance, just to have a relationship with one who you KNOW to have extensive trial experience, because with your future depending on it that's what it will take.

Ideally, you'd have a small-office lawyer near where you live. Ask around the LEO's in the community to get a lead or two. Perhaps make an appointment (and pay for it, if they charge for a first consultation) and get to know them a little bit. It's good to have someone who has something of a general practice so that they can do some more routine work for you, since that helps to keep the relationship going. But it's essential that they have extensive experience in actually trying matters, not just settling civil cases or pleading criminal cases, because you just can't develop that skill set and state of mind over night. I think a minimum of around 250 trials or more would be a good idea.

Civil trial experience counts for a lot here, because if you have to defend yourself you may well be more at risk from civil liability than criminal charges, or you might face both.

None of my approach is original. I read an article a couple of years ago where Masad Ayoob suggested the same thing, and I've heard a couple of firearms instructors around here advocating the same thing. I put my plan in place by consulting the lady who does estate stuff for my family, and who I've known for years. She's a former 10-year prosecutor (major felonies) who still defends criminal cases as well as doing civil trial work. She even likes to shoot as well. Now, we're each other's lawyers.

I'm sure some of the pre-paid legal work plans do okay, but I've never seen one handle a shooting defense. Some of the prepaid group work I've seen done in other areas of the law has been discouraging, to say the least. YMMV.
So your a Lawyer ??? Can I retain you for $1 a year ??? If not I'll take my chances getting robbed by the other type of snake !!! JK
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  #19  
Old 06-21-2013, 08:11 PM
pacific23 pacific23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappi View Post
where'd that figure come from?
I presume from the marketing HYPE of that legal service.

so is that figure for a capitol crime?
aggravated assault??
Criminal and civil suit combined?


since they're using stats to SCARE you into buying their snake oil, why not search some other stats like;

1.) the percentage of gun owners actually have ti shoot in defense?.
2.) of that tiny minority that did have to shoot in defense, what percentage of them were criminally prosecuted for aggravated assault?

I'll take my chances and spend my money for ammo and training

YMMV


..L.T.A.
I got that number from the two retired LEOs that taught my CHL class.

It's not the Criminal suit that is the problem , it's the CIVIL suit , you know the one where the scum bags grandma need the money and car that was being taken from YOU at gun point by said scum bag.

Last edited by pacific23; 06-21-2013 at 08:14 PM.
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  #20  
Old 06-21-2013, 08:20 PM
pacific23 pacific23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOE HOLCOMB View Post
Wouldn't that make you look like some wannabe vigilante if you already had a firearm defense lawyer on retainer ???? I don't think most normal people do that is why I am asking.....
Joe. I have boatUS for my boat and truck, Auto Insurance on everything I drive, Insurance on my property just in case a Cow or horse hurts you, I'm insured at work, Have home owners insurance with contents and an insurance policy on my Boat.
Why not get it for my CCW.
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  #21  
Old 06-21-2013, 10:24 PM
STUB48 STUB48 is offline
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Insurance companies love people like you!
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  #22  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:12 PM
Nick A Nick A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacific23 View Post
I got that number from the two retired LEOs that taught my CHL class.

I understand. Instructors say things like that to scare the bejeesus out of you. Or into you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by pacific23 View Post
It's not the Criminal suit that is the problem , it's the CIVIL suit.
And how often does this civil suit occur?

According to "New Perspectives on Gun Control" (Kleck, G., and D. Kates, Promethius press, 2001)
Uniform Crime Statistics from the mid to late 1990's indicate approximately 375,000 time per year
a person uses a gun lawfully and legally in self defense. Not all are shootings,
some incidents
end simply because the homeowner or citizen is armed and the perp runs.


So, pacific23, are there 375,000 civil lawsuits each year? Or half that number? Or 1/10 that number?

Or just a few? Or virtually none?



The good thing about listening to CCW instructors is that they get your head
in the right place about following the law, employing wisdom and judgment,
and no pulling out your gun hot-headed.

The bad thing is that they use fire-and-brimstone preaching tactics to accomplish the goal.
It isn't all factual.
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  #23  
Old 06-26-2013, 12:08 PM
BrettM BrettM is offline
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Just jumping in here to tell everyone my own experience with the legal system in texas.I had a friend who I worked with grab a un safe 1911(I was in the process of loading it) out of my hand.The gun went off killing him instantly.It was ruled an accident and no criminal charges were filled.The family filled a wrongful death lawsuit against me,after getting a lawyer and fighting this I eventually filled for bankruptcy because I didn't have the cash to continue fighting this case.The bankruptcy put a stay on the suit but im now having to pay a trustee every week to pay my debt off and had to get rid of a lot of my things that I liked to do for fun(Harley and a lot of my guns) to pay lawyer bills.I just want you to know that even when someone else does something completely unexpected that causes something really bad to happen you can and probably will be involved in some kind of legal action that's going to cause you a lot of financial problems for a long time.The texas law shield and other kinds of protection plans wont cover any civil suit expenses.My lawyer advised me to contact my insurance company and get a personal liability umbrella policy,he said that most of the time you can negotiate a settlement out of your insurance police with the plaintiff if all they want is to be paid.Just something to think about if you are going to carry a gun.
Brett
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  #24  
Old 06-27-2013, 10:41 AM
PhillRoath PhillRoath is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettM View Post
The texas law shield and other kinds of protection plans wont cover any civil suit expenses.

Just a point of information from the Texas Law Shield FAQ:

If there is a mistrial or the case has to be retried, is that covered?
Yes. Our representation includes both civil and criminal trials and any retrials that may be necessary.

I've had this for over a year and the news letters and other emails are very informative. Also like the 24/7 number that get's me to an attorney if needed.

Phill
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