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  #1  
Old 05-17-2013, 12:09 PM
vr1p vr1p is offline
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Converting 80 series to 70 series




would any of you convert an 80 series to a 70 series? im wondering what the pros and cons of doing this would be. also if anyone has done this, i would like to know why you did?
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  #2  
Old 05-17-2013, 12:20 PM
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Removing the S80 bits is very common. Some people do it because the S80 system can (not will) make the trigger feel creepy or heavier than desired. Some don't like the added complexity of little, fiddly parts added to a tough, durable design.
The downsides of removal are fear of liability over removing a safety (maybe more imagined than real, and that's why I say "fear"), and the reduction in mechancial safety; you ARE removing a safety device, so the gun is less "safe" under certain circumstances.
I have a S80 with the bits still in it, and a couple with the bits removed, and don't really notice much difference in how the guns handle.
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  #3  
Old 05-17-2013, 12:23 PM
VetPsychWars VetPsychWars is offline
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Yup, like Rick said, I'm keeping the firing pin safety in my carry gun for fear that it would be used against me if I took them out.

I can't feel anything in the trigger that I can say is definitely related to the firing pin safety.

Tom
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  #4  
Old 05-17-2013, 12:28 PM
creeper1956 creeper1956 is offline
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I've done it on dozens of guns, but... there's no real reason to do it unless you're building a target gun and want to remove the few ounces of added resistance that is associated with the series 80 firing pin drop safety components... primarily the plunger spring resistance.
In a carry gun, with a 4 lb plus trigger pull, there are other factors that contribute to a "quality" pull that far outweigh the small contribution of the firing pin drop safety.

On a target or range gun, I simply remove the levers, plunger and spring... the lever parts are replaced with the appropriate thickness spacer that will provide about .001"~.003" lateral play for the sear and hammer. It is often necessary to obtain a too thick spacer and thin it to provide the desired clearance.

The other side of the coin is a firing pin drop safety that doesn't function correctly due to "timing" ((inadequate over-travel adjustment) or total available mechanical travel (not enough or too much lift). These conditions are easy enough to check.

C
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:54 PM
Chiton guy Chiton guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper1956 View Post
I've done it on dozens of guns, but... there's no real reason to do it unless you're building a target gun and want to remove the few ounces of added resistance that is associated with the series 80 firing pin drop safety components... primarily the plunger spring resistance.
In a carry gun, with a 4 lb plus trigger pull, there are other factors that contribute to a "quality" pull that far outweigh the small contribution of the firing pin drop safety.

On a target or range gun, I simply remove the levers, plunger and spring... the lever parts are replaced with the appropriate thickness spacer that will provide about .001"~.003" lateral play for the sear and hammer. It is often necessary to obtain a too thick spacer and thin it to provide the desired clearance.



The other side of the coin is a firing pin drop safety that doesn't function correctly due to "timing" ((inadequate over-travel adjustment) or total available mechanical travel (not enough or too much lift). These conditions are easy enough to check.

C
I'm fitting a series 80 slide to a series 70 frame. Do I need to do anything else besides leave the series 80 parts out of it?
Thanks
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  #6  
Old 05-17-2013, 02:03 PM
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Here's the same question asked last month...

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=414373
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  #7  
Old 05-17-2013, 02:27 PM
AngelDeville AngelDeville is offline
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I converted mine.

Adding parts increases risk of failure, and as much as I love my pistol, I will never buy another series 80 again. If I ever find a suitable series 70 replacement She gets the 80 parts re-installed and she gets sold.

I once installed the 80 parts backward and she failed while at the shooting range, Ican't afford that to happen in a critical situation.

I would never buy a S$W pistol or any other with a "safety lock".
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  #8  
Old 05-17-2013, 03:45 PM
rjt70 rjt70 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelDeville View Post
I converted mine.

Adding parts increases risk of failure, and as much as I love my pistol, I will never buy another series 80 again. If I ever find a suitable series 70 replacement She gets the 80 parts re-installed and she gets sold.

I once installed the 80 parts backward and she failed while at the shooting range, Ican't afford that to happen in a critical situation.

I would never buy a S$W pistol or any other with a "safety lock".
Installing the parts incorrectly will certainly cause the gun to malfunction. But this isn't an example of the series 80 parts causing a failure, but an example of an owner assembling parts incorrectly which resulted in a failure.
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  #9  
Old 05-17-2013, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelDeville View Post
I converted mine.

Adding parts increases risk of failure, and as much as I love my pistol, I will never buy another series 80 again. If I ever find a suitable series 70 replacement She gets the 80 parts re-installed and she gets sold.

I once installed the 80 parts backward and she failed while at the shooting range, Ican't afford that to happen in a critical situation.

I would never buy a S$W pistol or any other with a "safety lock".
It's true that the more parts there are, the more parts might fail, but no proof that if any part fails, it will be one of the Series 80 parts. The system is driven by a spring like you'd find in a retractable pen, and I think the three steel parts can endure the pounding dished-out by that tiny spring.
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  #10  
Old 05-17-2013, 04:59 PM
BBossman BBossman is offline
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Colt has been producing the Series 80 pistols for 30 years. Its proven itself in tens of thousands of pistols and millions of rounds of ammunition. Its so successful the Series 80 style safety has been copied by other manufacturers.

Professional and hobbyist 1911 smiths have learned to tune it to have little if any negative impact on trigger pull or reliability. Usually, as demonstrated in this thread, and regularly on this forum, problems arise from insufficient knowledge and tampering with the parts.

If you want a pistol without the parts thats fine, but why not buy one without them to begin with.
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  #11  
Old 05-17-2013, 05:08 PM
VetPsychWars VetPsychWars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjt70 View Post
Installing the parts incorrectly will certainly cause the gun to malfunction. But this isn't an example of the series 80 parts causing a failure, but an example of an owner assembling parts incorrectly which resulted in a failure.
Indeed. The #1 problem with any gun is always the human screwing with it. Like anyone who first disassembled a 1911, I needed a lot of looking at the field manual to get it assembled correctly. Now? Don't need the manual at all.

I'm pretty sure after I disassemble and reassemble my Remington R1S a few more dozen times that I won't need to refer to the book for that one, either.

Tom
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  #12  
Old 05-17-2013, 05:57 PM
Gilliac Gilliac is offline
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Chilton Guy

You asked "I'm fitting a series 80 slide to a series 70 frame. Do I need to do anything else besides leave the series 80 parts out of it?"

The short answer is no. While I would not convert a complete Series 80 gun, you have no choice. The Series 80 parts must be removed from the slide as there are no Series 80 parts in the frame to unlock the firing pin.

There will be an extra hole left in the bottom of the slide where the plunger and spring were. Will not hurt anything but looks bad.

And you may want to install a Series 70 firing pin stop as the extra cutout of the Series 80 style is unneeded. Again just a looks issue.

Some recommend a heavier firing pin spring and a lighter pin for some added drop safety.


Gil
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  #13  
Old 05-18-2013, 02:07 AM
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Because of the series 80 Firing Pin Safety, Series 80 Colt's have a different hammer to Series 70 pistols. It's all got to do with the half cock notch. The S70 guns have a "captive" half cock notch but the S80's have a ledge, much like the full cock ledge (the FPS will have prevent an AD by blocking the Firing Pin, hence no captive half cock notch is needed).

So strictly speaking, changing a S80 pistol to S70 configuration you must also change the hammer.
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  #14  
Old 05-18-2013, 04:40 AM
richpetrone richpetrone is offline
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Changing Series 80 to 70

Once you remove the Series 80 lever, there is excessive space around the sear, so I always use a shim. The shim can be a small washer which fits on the sear pin, and helps to prevent the sear from any side movement. This may not be mandatory, but I prefer to use a shim.
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Old 05-18-2013, 05:01 AM
BBossman BBossman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MGould View Post
Because of the series 80 Firing Pin Safety, Series 80 Colt's have a different hammer to Series 70 pistols. It's all got to do with the half cock notch. The S70 guns have a "captive" half cock notch but the S80's have a ledge, much like the full cock ledge (the FPS will have prevent an AD by blocking the Firing Pin, hence no captive half cock notch is needed).

So strictly speaking, changing a S80 pistol to S70 configuration you must also change the hammer.
Current Colt Series 70 and 80 use the same hammers.
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Old 05-18-2013, 09:04 AM
Also Don P Also Don P is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MGould View Post
So strictly speaking, changing a S80 pistol to S70 configuration you must also change the hammer.
Nope. the ledge serves the same purpose. It doesn't HAVE to be captive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBossman View Post
Current Colt Series 70 and 80 use the same hammers.
Exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by richpetrone View Post
Once you remove the Series 80 lever, there is excessive space around the sear, so I always use a shim. The shim can be a small washer which fits on the sear pin, and helps to prevent the sear from any side movement. This may not be mandatory, but I prefer to use a shim.
OP said he's using a s70 frame, so there's no levers, and no need for a shim. Just remove the s80 parts from the slide, and you're GTG.
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  #17  
Old 05-18-2013, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBossman View Post
Current Colt Series 70 and 80 use the same hammers.
Ok didn't know that, thanks!
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  #18  
Old 05-18-2013, 09:36 PM
richpetrone richpetrone is offline
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Original Post

Quote:
OP said he's using a s70 frame, so there's no levers, and no need for a shim.
This is not correct.....the OP (original post) did not say he had a series 80 slide for a series 70 frame. The original post asked the question about converting a series 80 to a series 70 style gun....the OP user name is "vr1p" I addressed the possible need for a shim on the series 80 frame fire control parts.

Later in the thread, a different user name of "Chiton guy" said he was converting a series 80 slide on a series 70 frame.....he did not write the original post, and my answer was referring to the original post, not Chiton Guy.

Last edited by richpetrone; 05-18-2013 at 09:39 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-20-2013, 08:02 PM
vr1p vr1p is offline
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richpetrone is correct, i am the OP and i was asking about converting a full series 80 (frame and slide included) to a 70 series.
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  #20  
Old 05-20-2013, 08:52 PM
ddg4238 ddg4238 is offline
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You asked about pros and cons of this conversion.

Con:
I was at the Arkansas State IDPA match this past weekend. Everyone had to have their pistols inspected before competing. One fellow handed his 1911 to he inspector who started the safety checks and shortly later told the fellow his pistol didn't pass the safety inspection and he couldn't compete with it. When he asked why he was told the series 80 safety parts had been removed and all the firearms safeties had to be functional in order to compete with. The fellow asked what his options were and was told either reinstall the series 80 parts or find another pistol to compete with. His weekend was just about ruined.

Pros:
The series 80 levers can be tuned in such a way to ensure the firing pin is completely free before the trigger is pulled enough to release the hammer. If the trigger work is done correctly, these levers do not negatively affect trigger pull or pull weight.
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  #21  
Old 05-20-2013, 09:37 PM
Harleytech Harleytech is offline
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Originally Posted by ddg4238 View Post
You asked about pros and cons of this conversion.

Con:
I was at the Arkansas State IDPA match this past weekend. Everyone had to have their pistols inspected before competing. One fellow handed his 1911 to he inspector who started the safety checks and shortly later told the fellow his pistol didn't pass the safety inspection and he couldn't compete with it. When he asked why he was told the series 80 safety parts had been removed and all the firearms safeties had to be functional in order to compete with. The fellow asked what his options were and was told either reinstall the series 80 parts or find another pistol to compete with. His weekend was just about ruined.

Pros:
The series 80 levers can be tuned in such a way to ensure the firing pin is completely free before the trigger is pulled enough to release the hammer. If the trigger work is done correctly, these levers do not negatively affect trigger pull or pull weight.
All mine run great..!! Doesen't bother me a bit...I have both
series 70 an 80...
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  #22  
Old 05-24-2013, 09:20 AM
Chiton guy Chiton guy is offline
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Thanks, guys, I'm about 50% done, but I'll have to go back to the new sti frame with some cold blue. The rust blue didn't work out, I think because the frame finish was matte instead of shiny. The colt I rust blued next to it turned out fine, but its original finish was worn away and very smooth...
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  #23  
Old 05-24-2013, 10:38 AM
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Proper prep is paramount to success with finish work.
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  #24  
Old 05-24-2013, 06:17 PM
wproct wproct is offline
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I have a SIG stainless carry that utilizes the series 80 type firing pin safety. I installed the 80 to 70 series conversion shim and removed the series 80 levers frome the frame and plunger and spring from the slide. I also installed a Clark trigger/sear/grip safety spring. Resulting trigger pull was very nice. However, I later re-installed the series 80 stuff. If something happened to me or I ever sell the pistol, I didn't want the liability of the modified safety pistol. I found that the Clark reduced power spring made a bigger difference in trigger pull than removing the series 80 stuff did. A properly fitted series 80 action pistol is capable of a very crisp and smooth trigger action. I'm very happy with my SIG pistol, but if I were to buy another 1911, I would probably just opt for a Series 70 type pistol.
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  #25  
Old 05-25-2013, 12:27 AM
B-Rad B-Rad is online now
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Brownells sells the shim parts. I've looked at it before but never done it
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