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  #1  
Old 02-01-2013, 06:36 PM
Hank in Arkansa Hank in Arkansa is offline
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Winston Churchill and the 1911




In the new 2013 Gun Digest, Mas Ayoob has a great article about the Mauser Broomhandle pistol. Of course, there's a bunch of info on Churchill's use of the gun in combat in N Africa. But there's also a story about a 1911. Seems, while Prime Minister during WWII, he asked his govt bodyguard what gun he carried. It was a wimpy Webley revolver. So Winston procured for him a .45ACP 1911, and gave it to him. Later, he asked the guy again what he was carrying. Again, dude said the little Webley. Now angry, Winston demanded the return of the 1911. He then tucked it into his waistband. For the rest of the war, he carried it. According to the historian who learned this, you can see the gun "print" thru Churchill's suit coat when he had it buttoned tightly. Now there's a wartime leader we could all follow!

I'm trying to imagine BHO asking a Secret Service Agent "what are you carrying..." and then.....just couldn't happen! Oops, I forgot, he's a shotgun expert, like Biden.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:44 PM
Hawkeye fan Hawkeye fan is offline
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Nice. If I recall correctly he was also liked the Thompson.
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  #3  
Old 02-01-2013, 10:20 PM
gumbee gumbee is offline
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BHO,Biden,Chaney=shotgun experts. BTW, the Boar War was fought in South Africa, not North Africa.

Last edited by gumbee; 02-01-2013 at 10:22 PM.
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  #4  
Old 02-01-2013, 10:34 PM
ghostdncr ghostdncr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank in Arkansa View Post
I'm trying to imagine BHO asking a Secret Service Agent "what are you carrying..." and then.....just couldn't happen! Oops, I forgot, he's a shotgun expert, like Biden.
Instead of defaulting to the shotgun, wouldn't it be refreshing to hear one of these hacks wax poetic about their M4, M40, or 1911?
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  #5  
Old 02-01-2013, 11:01 PM
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John Kerry was of the same low class, during the '04 elections he proclaimed he was a hunter and proceeded to go duck hunting with an entourage of news media tagging behind. It reminded me of stupid Michael Dukakis riding an M1A1 tank during the '88 elections pretending he supported a strong military, it was so hypocrital even the news media laughed at him.

Now Winston Churchill, I don't know if the 1911 story is true but he definitely was keen on firearms technology. If he came back alive and could see what his ol' England has turned into he'd change his citizenship to USA.
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  #6  
Old 02-01-2013, 11:10 PM
Nork1911A1 Nork1911A1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
Now Winston Churchill, I don't know if the 1911 story is true but he definitely was keen on firearms technology. If he came back alive and could see what his ol' England has turned into he'd change his citizenship to USA.
And I think Mr. Churchill would be sadly disappointed to see what the American politicians are doing to the nation that helped to save his. And I'm sure he'd have Piers Morgan stood in front of the wall, blindfold optional.
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  #7  
Old 02-02-2013, 08:12 AM
TracerBullet TracerBullet is offline
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Churchill was no stranger to guns for sure. This taken from a piece written by Douglas S. Russell in October, 1995:


Arriving in Cairo August 2nd, 1898, Churchill was with the 21st Lancers for their famous cavalry charge on September 2nd, which we may safely describe as "one of the last several cavalry charges in the history of the British Army" On that day, the 2lst were on a reconnaissance between the main baffle and the City of Khartoum. Spotting a row of 150 spearmen, they charged in line of squadrons. It was the most dangerous two minutes of Winston Churchill’s life.

The 21st Lancers came close upon the enemy, only to find that they had ridden into a trap—for behind the original force of Dervishes the enemy was arrayed twelve men deep in a shallow ravine. There followed hand-to-hand combat of the fiercest and most deadly kind. In 1955 Churchill recalled for Anthony Montague Browne: "...it was most exhilarating. But I did reflect, ‘suppose there is some spoil sport in a hole with a machine gun?"’ Churchill was lucky in that he was on the far right of the line where the enemy was not so thick. He owed his survival to his position, and the fact that he was armed not with a sword but with a Mauser automatic pistol, "a ripper," which saved his life. He used a pistol instead of a sword because of an old shoulder injury.


This event took place in Egypt. In other histories, Churchill was reported to be surrounded by the enemy, some of whom he dispatched with his pistol.

Later, Churchill covered the Boer War in South Africa as a war correspondent, during which he armed himself with a Mauser Broomhandle purchased for him by his loving Mother.
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  #8  
Old 02-02-2013, 10:35 AM
Dave W Anderson Dave W Anderson is offline
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According to what I've read pistol Churchill loaned to the bodyguard was not requisitioned from military stores but was his personally owned Colt 1911, s/n C15566.

Officers in the British and other Commonwealth nations (e.g. Canada, Australia) generally purchased their own personal sidearms, a tradition which didn't end until WW II.

In the early years WW I both Canada and Britain purchased 1911s from Colt, which were then sold to individual officers. These 1911s were standard Colt commercial production, hence the "C" prefix to the s/n. Just before going to France to command an infantry battalion, Churchill purchased the Colt.

Another article I recall quoted the bodyguard in question as saying he and Churchill would occasionally do some practice shooting with their pistols, and said Churchill was an excellent shot.

No doubt Churchill still owned his pistol at the time of his death. I imagine (and hope!) it is in a museum somewhere - unless some bureaucrat decided to destroy it to "set a good example".
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  #9  
Old 02-02-2013, 10:49 AM
master gunner master gunner is offline
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He liked other .45 cal stuff also.

http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/20...-and-tommy-gun
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:14 PM
Onegoodshot Onegoodshot is offline
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Wasn't Churchills mother american? Or am I mistaken?
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  #11  
Old 02-02-2013, 06:06 PM
jack852 jack852 is offline
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http://thefiringline.com/forums/arch...p?t-93150.html

Here is a good threat I found on the subject.
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  #12  
Old 02-02-2013, 06:30 PM
tpelle tpelle is offline
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And it was the Boer War, not the Boar War.

And Churchill did not serve in a military capacity in the Boer War - his military service was as a cavalryman in India - but he reported on the Boer War as a correspondent. He also was present, but as a reporter not a cavalryman, at the "Last Cavalry Charge" at Omdurman in the Sudan.
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  #13  
Old 02-03-2013, 12:16 AM
Hank in Arkansa Hank in Arkansa is offline
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Sir, I beg to differ on your description of Churchill's military service in Sudan and the Boer War. He was in the "last charge", both as a cavalryman and as a correspondent, having agreed to write about the campaign. And in the 2nd Boer War, while he started out as a correspondent, he also joined and served in combat with a South African cavalry unit. He did this after escaping from an enemy prison.

It was at Omdurman, in Sudan, that he distinguished himself with his personally owned Mauser Broomhandle pistol.

Churchill's writing career went hand in hand with his military service.
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  #14  
Old 02-03-2013, 12:45 AM
BlueBronco BlueBronco is offline
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Wasn't Churchills mother american? Or am I mistaken?
Yes. Jennie Jerome Churchill was a Brooklyn socialite. Dang. Churchill could have been POTUS.
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  #15  
Old 02-03-2013, 12:52 AM
Paulee Paulee is offline
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Churchill also recognized the harsh realities of combat, authorizing the use of "dum-dum" bullets by his men. He claimed that while it did seem cruel, he recognized that NOT using them meant they were at a disadvantage, and he wasn't going to have that.
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  #16  
Old 02-03-2013, 12:54 AM
Paulee Paulee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank in Arkansa View Post

Churchill's writing career went hand in hand with his military service.
And sometimes got in the way. In one encounter, he rode off to get a better view of the action so he could write a better description. In another, he encouraged his men to remain calm under fire, telling them, "This will make great copy for my newspaper."
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  #17  
Old 03-18-2015, 09:23 PM
reglet reglet is offline
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Churchill's 1911 in the Churchill Museum, London

Churchill's 1911 pistol is on display in the Churchill Museum in London's Whitehall--I saw it there in July 2014. The display card reads as follows: "Colt Model 1911 automatic pistol which Churchill bought and used during his service on the Western Front: the Colt remained his favourite firearm. Donated by Mr Winston S Churchill."

The lighting in the museum is quite dim, which made it hard to photograph the firearm, but I am attaching the picture anyway.
Attached Thumbnails
Churchill_1911.jpg  
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  #18  
Old 03-18-2015, 09:25 PM
reglet reglet is offline
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Museum card text for Churchill 1911

Here's an image of the museum card describing the Churchill 1911 pistol--I am including it for completeness' sake.
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Museum_Card_Churchill_1911.jpg  
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  #19  
Old 03-18-2015, 09:48 PM
Raylan Givens Raylan Givens is offline
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Thanks for posting this, reglet.
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  #20  
Old 03-18-2015, 10:37 PM
jbar1tex jbar1tex is offline
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Outstanding thread fellas. And the pictures of said 1911 are icing on the cake. Kudos to all you contributors.
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  #21  
Old 03-18-2015, 10:40 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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That hammer looks to be sunk into the slide. I hope they didn't "deactivate" this pistol as well, but something tells me they did.
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  #22  
Old 03-18-2015, 11:02 PM
NonHyphenAmerican NonHyphenAmerican is offline
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Makes me want to check out some books on Churchill.
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  #23  
Old 03-18-2015, 11:12 PM
zdragon52 zdragon52 is offline
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That hammer looks to be sunk into the slide. I hope they didn't "deactivate" this pistol as well, but something tells me they did.
i think your right....firing pin/FPS obviously removed.
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  #24  
Old 03-18-2015, 11:14 PM
walks with gun walks with gun is offline
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I remember reading a article somewhere stating it was well known in the early 50's Churchill was presented a lightweight Commander by the Colt company.
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  #25  
Old 03-18-2015, 11:17 PM
Boge Boge is online now
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...It reminded me of stupid Michael Dukakis riding an M1A1 tank during the '88 elections pretending he supported a strong military, it was so hypocrital even the news media laughed at him...

Although I never cared for the man, many were unaware that Dukakis actually served in the U.S. Army in Korea from 1955–1957.
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