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  #1  
Old 12-25-2012, 02:22 PM
pch pch is offline
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Help me narrow my choice for next 1911




First post, long time lurker.

Bit of background. Own several handguns, including a kimber pro cdp (4" .45 acp) which I've had about 13 years.

I'm looking for a new 1911 to become my primary range pistol. While I don't get much range time compared to most of you on this forum, 6-10 trips a year, maybe 1.5k to 2k rounds per year, that doesn't mean I want to get a basic model or limit my choice based on cost/usage.

I'd say my primary use for this will be friendly bullseye/tightest grouping competition with a few friends to see who pays for the range day, buys food after, etc.

Here are my reqs:
- full size 1911
- adjustable target sites
- < $3k preferred
- CA legal (which limits models, and what can/cant be done after manufacture)

My overall goal is to get the most accurate 1911 for my $/budget. I dont care about "carrying it through sand" or attaching a laser or light, or concealed carry, or night sights.

Thanks in advance for your recommendations.
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  #2  
Old 12-25-2012, 09:05 PM
ekujustice ekujustice is offline
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Les baer with the the accuracy guarantee
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  #3  
Old 12-25-2012, 09:07 PM
MSgt Dotson MSgt Dotson is offline
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The 'CA' part greatly complicates things, not sure if Les Baer makes CA models, but, Wilson Combat does. Are Colt Special Combat Govt Models on the CA list? Or even Gold Cup Trophy models?
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  #4  
Old 12-25-2012, 09:22 PM
Texas Cowboy Texas Cowboy is offline
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Wilson Combat makes some of the best quality firearms around. They have many models that will fit the budget you mentioned, they offer CA models, have an accuracy guarantee on the full size of 1" at 25 yards, and superb fit and finish. With Wilson Combat you can customize your pistol with many options.

They are definitely worth looking into. I just ordered one from them. Here is a link to their website.

http://wilsoncombat.com/new/custom-gun-models.asp
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  #5  
Old 12-25-2012, 09:22 PM
MSgt Dotson MSgt Dotson is offline
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Update: there are ten Les Baer models that are CA- approved, or, at least so says Les Baer website.
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  #6  
Old 12-25-2012, 09:27 PM
Texas Cowboy Texas Cowboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSgt Dotson View Post
The 'CA' part greatly complicates things, not sure if Les Baer makes CA models, but, Wilson Combat does. Are Colt Special Combat Govt Models on the CA list? Or even Gold Cup Trophy models?
Les Baer does offer 10 models legal in CA. Wilson Combat has CA legal models in all their 1911 offerings.
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  #7  
Old 12-25-2012, 09:27 PM
Cumminsman76 Cumminsman76 is offline
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For a range gun I'd go STI if they are CA approved.
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  #8  
Old 12-25-2012, 09:34 PM
Texas Cowboy Texas Cowboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cumminsman76 View Post
For a range gun I'd go STI if they are CA approved.
I don't think STI is CA approved. Found this one their website in their FAQ section:

Q: Will the recent California Microstamping Bill affect California specific products?

A: We will be suspending all shipments of guns to California effective October 13, 2007. This includes everyone from civilians to Law Enforcement.
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  #9  
Old 12-25-2012, 09:46 PM
tsp45acp tsp45acp is offline
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Welcome to the forum...


Not having any idea what is Ca legal I don't have many suggestions....but if I did, I'd start with the Colt Special Combat.
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  #10  
Old 12-26-2012, 04:32 AM
rpm28 rpm28 is offline
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+1 for Les Baer....the most accurate single stack I've shot, bar none!
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  #11  
Old 12-26-2012, 03:38 PM
pch pch is offline
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Thanks for all the feedback, it sounds like the Les Baer and WC are the two makers that will best match my need. I use WC magazines only and find them to be outstanding. I'll do some research on the CA legal ones and post my options. thanks!
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  #12  
Old 12-26-2012, 04:02 PM
pch pch is offline
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Well it looks like there are only 3 models (2 Les Baers, 1 WC) that fit all the reqs:

Baer 1911 Ultimate Master Combat Pistol, 5" Model, .45 ACP
$2790.00

Baer 1911 Premier II, 5" Model, .45 ACP
$1905.00

WC Classic Ambi Two-Tone, .45 ACP
$3030.00

They all seem to share about the same features, the only thing I didn't see on the Baer Premier was an extended mag well, but I don't see how that feature would be almost a $900 price delta from their Ultimate!

Let me know what experiences you have with any of these three, the pros/cons and feature differences to your more trained eyes :-).

Based on their specs, do you see anything that stands out from an accuracy or reliability perspectives?

thanks!
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  #13  
Old 12-31-2012, 12:54 AM
ppcgm ppcgm is offline
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If STI's Trojan isn't legal in your state, the second choice would be the S&W Doug Koenig model, both "cheap" compared to the Wilson and Baer models and every bit as reliable, accurate and durable.
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  #14  
Old 12-31-2012, 08:23 AM
Johngun Johngun is offline
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check out fusionfirerms.com website. Since you have previous experience with handguns, you might enjoy selecting the parts you do want in a gun; truly to your own specs. Time to complete isn't bad in this market. They will make kits or completed guns.
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  #15  
Old 12-31-2012, 08:44 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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The Baer PII is where you get into the "semi-custom" field.
I don't think paying more for a dressed up Baer will get you a better shooting gun, just a fancier one.

I'd rather a Wilson, but I don't know if 50% more.
Also, Wilson is running very long on orders, you would have to find a California roster gun at a distributor if you wanted to go shooting any time soon.
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  #16  
Old 12-31-2012, 01:24 PM
tsp45acp tsp45acp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johngun View Post
check out fusionfirerms.com website.


+1. I recommend them every chance I can.
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  #17  
Old 12-31-2012, 02:27 PM
cvann cvann is offline
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Given your primary use, you would be best served by a Manufacturer that is familiar with Bullseye guns, like LB or Springfield Armory. Both have Custom Shops that will build you a gun to order.
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  #18  
Old 12-31-2012, 02:32 PM
cvann cvann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppcgm View Post
If STI's Trojan isn't legal in your state, the second choice would be the S&W Doug Koenig model, both "cheap" compared to the Wilson and Baer models and every bit as reliable, accurate and durable.
That is simply not true. Neither one of those guns will shoot 3 inch groups at 50 yards.
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  #19  
Old 12-31-2012, 02:53 PM
DArBad DArBad is offline
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For a California approved gun and a Kimber brand for range use I recommend..........The Kimber Gold Match II in either blue or stainless steel.

It has a target adjustable sight, trigger that is factory tuned to a clean 3-4 lbs pull, has ambidextrous thumb safety, and the barrel (per Kimber Inc.) is machined oversize and fitted by hand in the custom shop for outstanding accuracy. The blued one is especially beautiful because it is highly poslished and the grips are beautiful rosewood........I used to own one, by the way. I had to sell it away due to an unforeseen money problem.......I still lament my loss!

Brand new, they range in price (California Bay Area) from a low of $1200 to a high of $1400.

Last edited by DArBad; 12-31-2012 at 02:59 PM.
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  #20  
Old 01-01-2013, 08:55 AM
Gregg28 Gregg28 is offline
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You would be doing me a personal favor if you bought this. It has been screaming to me for a couple of days. You have to be registered and logged in to see the listing:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=691138

FS (OH) Kimber Target Match (REDUCED)
I have for sale in Ohio (but will ship to FFL) a Limited Edition Kimber Target Match in .45 acp. This is an early offering from the Kimber Custom Shop, and is probably one of the best they have produced.

Production took place in 2005 and was limited to 1,000 units, with special serial numbers. The frame and slide are finished in matte black with brush-polished flats, an oversize 5-inch barrel fitted by hand in the Custom Shop for accuracy, Kimber's adjustable sight with positive and responsive steel-on-steel click adjustment dials, 30 LPI checkering on front strap and under trigger guard, high relief cut under trigger guard, engraved bullseye on slide, inlaid burl walnut logo grips, solid target trigger, ambidextrous safety, wide slide cocking serrations, and a standard 8 round magazine, 38 oz.

I bought this gun many years ago, but have several other 1911's that I shoot and was "saving" this, and never shot it. I repeat, this gun has been handled but never fired!

The original MSRP when I bought it 7 years ago was $1346. Price reduced to $1200 ftf or add shipping if you are out of state. REMEMBER - you are looking at an unfired example of a 7 year old limited production pistol.
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  #21  
Old 01-01-2013, 10:07 AM
markbob45 markbob45 is offline
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I don't know about California legal but to me a Springfield Range Officer is one heck of a nice target pistol and well under your $3000 top end. I have no experience with the high end guns mentioned and if I had a working price range of $3000 I'd be looking at them too. I wonder if they are $2000+ better than the RO
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  #22  
Old 01-01-2013, 04:32 PM
Hawkeye fan Hawkeye fan is offline
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I'd vote for the Springfield Range Officer however, not sure if CA Legal. My TRP Operator I just picked up has on the case Not Legal in CA.
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  #23  
Old 01-01-2013, 05:47 PM
BlueOvalBandit BlueOvalBandit is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pch View Post
First post, long time lurker.

Bit of background. Own several handguns, including a kimber pro cdp (4" .45 acp) which I've had about 13 years.

I'm looking for a new 1911 to become my primary range pistol. While I don't get much range time compared to most of you on this forum, 6-10 trips a year, maybe 1.5k to 2k rounds per year, that doesn't mean I want to get a basic model or limit my choice based on cost/usage.

I'd say my primary use for this will be friendly bullseye/tightest grouping competition with a few friends to see who pays for the range day, buys food after, etc.

Here are my reqs:
- full size 1911
- adjustable target sites
- < $3k preferred
- CA legal (which limits models, and what can/cant be done after manufacture)

My overall goal is to get the most accurate 1911 for my $/budget. I dont care about "carrying it through sand" or attaching a laser or light, or concealed carry, or night sights.

Thanks in advance for your recommendations.
Hell if you got a budget near $3k that gives a lot to work with. Are you NorCal or SoCal? If SoCal why don't you get a custom 1911 built buy Jimmy or JoJo Vidanes, they do AWESOME work, I wish I could afford one, but pretty much anything you want. You can also do Single Shot exemptions on STIs. JoJo does a SS 1911 game gun that is just WILD but probably more than you want. If you've never met any of them just come down to Norco Run and Gun its practically every saturday at Raahauges and 99.9% of the time both JoJo and Jimmy are there. Jimmy does match registration, JoJo is match director and a shooter.

Alan Tanaka still build 1911's custom, he's in Gardena.

Speak with any of them and tell them your budget and goals.

Last edited by BlueOvalBandit; 01-01-2013 at 05:53 PM.
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  #24  
Old 01-01-2013, 07:06 PM
pch pch is offline
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Thanks again for all the replies.

Per previous poster, I'm looking for an oem 1911, not looking for a
pick-your-part / project pistol (I do understand the benefits, just not what I'm looking for), but thanks for the suggestion!

Right now, I'm leaning towards the Wilson Combat. I've found a few, literally only a few, in the area that are for sale based on WC's "distributor website list". Gunbroker had some listed, but its very hard to tell if they are the CA legal versions (not at the point to start making contact yet).

As many of you have said, and the 100s of websites/postings I've read over the last weeks, there is really no wrong answer with these makers...all are top notch and will do what I'm looking for.

Also, regarding the Kimber, while I like their SuperMatch II, I already have a Pro CPD that I've shot for the last 12-14 or so years. I think I'd like to branch out.

And regarding the Springfields, I've shot many before from friends, and I just don't think they are in the same league as the Baer and WC.
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  #25  
Old 01-02-2013, 12:49 AM
pch pch is offline
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Long post....

Well I hit the range tonight, they had a WC CQB available to demo. Not the Classic I'm looking for, but should be very close. I went into it knowing this was a range pistol and was going to be abused/have some issues compared to be perfectly clean and oiled personal pistol.

I brought along my Kimber Pro CDP so I could compare weight, feel, trigger, recoil, etc etc.

Shot 100 rounds through each; both with factory new 230 FMJ.

- the Wilson weights the same empty as the Kimber with a full mag! Thats the 5in vs 4in and steel vs alloy frame. The balance was great, very even. Surprisingly, I didn't think there was too much of a difference in recoil, physics says there should be, but I didnt really notice.

- I always thought my kimber trigger was the best thing since sliced bread, it was amazing how crisp, light, and how short the reset was on the WC. The WC put it to shame! It felt like I was shooting a DA vs a SA. But at the same time, the WC almost felt too light at <4lbs, and for whatever reason, the trigger was really cutting into my finger. Both pistols have the same fullsize grip, and Match Grade, Aluminum, long triggers, so my grip was the same, but the WC was giving me some cutting/pinching on the outside edge (left side/outside edge of finger).

- Both had the fixed night sites, whereas I want adjustable, so nothing to discuss here.

- FTF!!! I felt I weak-wristed it, at round 43, my Kimber failed to return the slide to position! After removing the mag and opening the slide, the round appeared to be in the barrel, but the slide didnt fully reset. Put the round back in the magazine and fired the remaining 2 rounds from the mag no problem. No other problems the rest of the night. Aside from the possible bad shooting form, I'm probably due for a new recoil spring as well, or maybe the mag should be tossed. In any case, I'd say I've had maybe 8 failures in 12 years, that's still 8 too many for my liking. One of the reasons I'm looking for a higher quality 1911 as well (My 16 year old sig P226 has 12k rounds and 0 failures, hence why it gets the home defense award).

- Felt ironic that I was using WC mags in my Kimber, and the WC had some unknown rickety range mag.

- Shot various 5 round groupings at 7, 12, and 15 yards (small range). With the WC, id say it took 15-20 rounds before the groups started to tighten up... could be range abuse, could just need to warm up, could be me. I did have one 5rnd group at 12 yards where all 5 rounds basically touched each other! That was my tightest of the night. Overall, I'd say my kimber was on par with the WC, maybe more consistent as well. I feel thats due to my years of use of it, and the abusive life of the range WC.

I did get the feeling that a new/personal WC would be more accurate and consistent, but by how much? My kimber was maybe $1k 12 years ago, with WC about $3k. Did it shoot 3x better for 3x the price? No, it didn't. Is the price only about the range trip and the grouping..no its not.

My overall takeaways: I'm @#$% pissed at a FTF in my kimber! Why did the WC trigger cut me up, and was it "too light"? Is the WC "whole package" worth 3x more than my Kimber (or equivalent 1911)?

Anyway, thoughts, comments, suggestions?

thanks!
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