1911Forum
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > 1911 Manufacturers > Rock Island Armory


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-25-2012, 10:42 PM
keystoneweaponBK keystoneweaponBK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 156
Reloading the 22TCM




Anyone else out there Reloading the 22TCM?

I just loaded a few up with H110 and am going to go out and give them a whirl but was wondering if there were others? This may belong in the reloading section but I figured I'd ask here since the TCM was an RIA thing as of now...

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-25-2012, 10:49 PM
OldEagleEars OldEagleEars is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Shawnee, Kansas; a suburb of Kansas City
Age: 69
Posts: 2,078
This seems to be the hotbed of TCM fanatics right here! If I may ask, what bullet did you use and at what weight? There has been a lot of speculation around the LGS about performance with a heavier or more frangible bullet. Enquiring Minds Want to Know (as they say)!
__________________
"If your enemy is doing something foolish...let him!" - Napoleon
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-25-2012, 10:55 PM
keystoneweaponBK keystoneweaponBK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldEagleEars View Post
This seems to be the hotbed of TCM fanatics right here! If I may ask, what bullet did you use and at what weight? There has been a lot of speculation around the LGS about performance with a heavier or more frangible bullet. Enquiring Minds Want to Know (as they say)!
I am actually using the exact same 40gr bullet that is loaded from the factory, I get them from Fred Craig and they are actually pretty darn cheap... I am staying with his prescription so I don't blow my TCM (and hand) up! lol. Here is some of the info:


22 TCM Reloading Component Pricing and Specs
LEE 22 TCM 3 Die set = $ 75.00
22 TCM New Brass Per 100pcs = $ 18.00
22 TCM 40gr. Soft Point HP Per 100 pcs = $ 6.50
TCM 18rd. Magazines = $ 35.00
Standard Shipping (One box of components) = $ 11.00
We only recommend (1) commercial powder for the 22 TCM
Winchester 296 or H110 (same powder)
STARTING LOAD 9.0 grains
MAX LOAD 10.0 grains
Recommended Primer: Tula/Wolf Small Pistol Primers
( Tula Primers are Available from Powder Valley 1-800-227-4299, or you can use any Small Pistol or Small rifle Primers….. NO MAGNUM PRIMERS!!!)
The LEE 22TCM Die set is a three die set which includes a non-carbide sizer/decapper, Powder dropper die, and a Bullet seater/crimp die. The Powder dropper is designed to work with Lee progressive presses but can be altered to work with a manual dropper or with other progressive presses. You may want to purchase a universal expander die from Lee in order to flare the case mouth before bullet seating. Lee does not include this die in the standard set.
WARNING - The 22TCM is a very high pressure cartridge and should only be loaded by an experienced reloader. Failure to follow the given loading data could cause serious damage to your pistol and even you or a bystander. Never exceed the maximum load as indicated on this sheet. Understand that the Rock Island Armory TCM pistol is only warrantied with the use of Factory Ammo, and use of reloads can affect certain warranty related issues.
By purchasing reloading dies and components, the customer acknowledges the risks involved in reloading, and takes full responsibility for any issues that may arise from the use of 22 TCM handloads.
Please send in your order with a Personal Check or Money Order payable to Fred Craig. I’m sorry, but I do not accept credit cards.

Please Mail Check To:
Fred Craig
460 Intrepid St.
Pahrump NV 89048
775-513-3962
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-25-2012, 10:59 PM
keystoneweaponBK keystoneweaponBK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 156
Also, Fred did mention to me that there are other bullets you can use (I believe like the V-Max, etc) but they (Armscor and Fred himself) are hesitant with the reloading of this cartridge in general because people might get a little bit too creative and blow some stuff up... for now I'm sticking with keeping it as close to factory as possible but I'm sure there are some "Interesting" things you could do if you had the urge (and courage) to do so :-)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-25-2012, 11:21 PM
OldEagleEars OldEagleEars is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Shawnee, Kansas; a suburb of Kansas City
Age: 69
Posts: 2,078
Thank you for the information as it may serve to calm down some of the "What if...?" crowd who seem to be speculating stuff they may never do (I hope!). I'm not a reloader myself but this seems like a cartridge that (as you said) should be reloaded by experienced practitioners only. I enjoy shooting TCM and was very impressed at the accuracy of the round in the 1911 platform. I was amazed at the difference between the holes TCM put in target paper versus that left by a good .22LR at the same distance. The TCM made an even, smooth-edged hole that looked like a punch had been used while the LR left a slightly ragged perforation; very noticeable! My usual indoor range has responded to my use of the TCM by banning the cartridge, so I've been getting some time in with the (admittedly cheaper) 9mm configuration. But there are other ranges in the area...
Also, has anyone to your knowledge gathered any data on velocity/energy drop at various distances or anything on maximum effective range for the TCM? I'm curious about how far the beaten ground extends when using this round outside. Again, thank you for the information.
__________________
"If your enemy is doing something foolish...let him!" - Napoleon

Last edited by OldEagleEars; 11-25-2012 at 11:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-26-2012, 07:57 AM
rockyraccoon rockyraccoon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gideons Bible
Posts: 160
9 grains of h110 with the factory bullet would'nt cycle my tcm , always left the spent case in the action .
9.0 grains of h110 only chrono'd at 1500 fps or slower
10.0 grains got things working again but still only hits about 1700 fps
I am at 11 grains now and my tcm behaves the same as factory rounds now and chronos at or around 1900
BTW the factory round comes in at 1950 on my chrono and has quite a bit of spread between rounds like 1900-2050
__________________
Happiness is a warm gun !
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-26-2012, 08:12 AM
keystoneweaponBK keystoneweaponBK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyraccoon View Post
9 grains of h110 with the factory bullet would'nt cycle my tcm , always left the spent case in the action .
9.0 grains of h110 only chrono'd at 1500 fps or slower
10.0 grains got things working again but still only hits about 1700 fps
I am at 11 grains now and my tcm behaves the same as factory rounds now and chronos at or around 1900
BTW the factory round comes in at 1950 on my chrono and has quite a bit of spread between rounds like 1900-2050
Thanks for the info, I just loaded some up with 9.4 Grains of H110 to give it a middle of the road test but haven't got out to try them, Unfortunately where I live we don't have much access to indoor ranges (and the ones we have are old and would probably damage their backstops!) I am loading at the factory depth OAL to try that first, I am also curious to see if different primers make a difference as well.

Once I get to some testing and data I will let you know how mine works out, with the factory loads it would push out 1950fps (39Degrees F @ just barely over sea level) on a chrono but did notice a fairly wide spread in velocity as well.

Also I am shooting it out of what right now is a "special" gun and might have slightly different experiences as mine is a 4.26" Barrel: http://www.keystoneweapon.com/Keysto...Commander.html
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-26-2012, 08:19 AM
keystoneweaponBK keystoneweaponBK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldEagleEars View Post
Thank you for the information as it may serve to calm down some of the "What if...?" crowd who seem to be speculating stuff they may never do (I hope!). I'm not a reloader myself but this seems like a cartridge that (as you said) should be reloaded by experienced practitioners only. I enjoy shooting TCM and was very impressed at the accuracy of the round in the 1911 platform. I was amazed at the difference between the holes TCM put in target paper versus that left by a good .22LR at the same distance. The TCM made an even, smooth-edged hole that looked like a punch had been used while the LR left a slightly ragged perforation; very noticeable! My usual indoor range has responded to my use of the TCM by banning the cartridge, so I've been getting some time in with the (admittedly cheaper) 9mm configuration. But there are other ranges in the area...
Also, has anyone to your knowledge gathered any data on velocity/energy drop at various distances or anything on maximum effective range for the TCM? I'm curious about how far the beaten ground extends when using this round outside. Again, thank you for the information.
I have heard of being banned from some indoor ranges that the backstops are not able to redirect the energy and it causing damage, I think this is kind of a "badge of honor" Once I dial in a load that I'm confortable with shooting through my chrono at a long distance I would be interested to see what its velocity drop is at far distances. I' would rather not shoot one through (Literally) my chrono and blow it's guts out quite yet though, ha.

Love the caliber though and will be working on it until I can match the factory round since it acts like a little paper puncher as you mentioned... burning perfect clean holes, and as long as I can mimic the accuracy for practice I will be happy
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-26-2012, 08:41 AM
keystoneweaponBK keystoneweaponBK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 156
Rockyracoon, are you shooting the traditional OAL and the factory bullet or are you trying something else?

Also Anybody... BRASS... I am a Brass hoarder and try to not lose any.... If any of you want to trade your 22 TCM brass I have lots and lots of brass among other stuff to trade, I'm also always looking for 38 SUPER.

If you have been hoarding your TCM brass and have no desire to reload, I would be interested in trading or bartering... I have lots of brass/nickel... especially in .40 etc...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-26-2012, 11:42 AM
OldEagleEars OldEagleEars is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Shawnee, Kansas; a suburb of Kansas City
Age: 69
Posts: 2,078
Also Anybody... BRASS... I am a Brass hoarder and try to not lose any.... If any of you want to trade your 22 TCM brass I have lots and lots of brass among other stuff to trade, I'm also always looking for 38 SUPER.

If you have been hoarding your TCM brass and have no desire to reload, I would be interested in trading or bartering... I have lots of brass/nickel... especially in .40 etc...[/QUOTE]

I only was able to fire 50 rounds before the banning at my local range and seven empties bounced off the station sidewall and beyond the firing line so they were irretrievable. I still have the other 43 and will have more after I can get to another range to run the gun in TCM configuration. I don't reload so I'll probably donate my brass to whoever can use it. I've heard the factory will also take brass in on trade for new ammo but haven't confirmed that. I'll keep checking this thread for any of your updates.
__________________
"If your enemy is doing something foolish...let him!" - Napoleon
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-26-2012, 11:47 AM
rockyraccoon rockyraccoon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gideons Bible
Posts: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by keystoneweaponBK View Post
Rockyracoon, are you shooting the traditional OAL and the factory bullet or are you trying something else?
factory bullets with oal the same as the armscor rounds . I think Fred errs on the side of caution with the load recommendations .

1450-1500 fps won't vaporize a water bottle like 1950 will

also sucked to have to cycle the action every time because it wouldn't fully cycle the slide or eject the spent case . Maybe it's just my tcm with 5 inch barrel.

Things didn't start to work right until I went to 10 grains , but chrono still showed low fps compared to the armscor rounds .

everything was chrono'd at 5ft or so from muzzle

my pistol is happy camper with 11 grains and I would pretty much assume that to be a max charge. I can vaporize melons like the factory rounds do .
__________________
Happiness is a warm gun !
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-26-2012, 01:05 PM
mazer mazer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 149
Rocky, what primers are you using?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-26-2012, 01:12 PM
keystoneweaponBK keystoneweaponBK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 156
Nice rocky, thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-26-2012, 01:14 PM
keystoneweaponBK keystoneweaponBK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 156
And old eagle ears, if you get a good hunk of them I will pay to ship them to me and see if I can get you something you need in exchange so keep them and if down the road you want to work something out I will make it worth both our while... Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-26-2012, 02:13 PM
rockyraccoon rockyraccoon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gideons Bible
Posts: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mazer View Post
Rocky, what primers are you using?
tried the Tula/Wolfs and they have far too many duds in the pkg maybe it's just the lot of them I have ..........

I use CCI's pretty religiously in everything I reload . and just an FYI there is absolutely no difference in fps on the chrono using the Tula or CCI primers in the 22 TCM cases
__________________
Happiness is a warm gun !
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-26-2012, 04:56 PM
keystoneweaponBK keystoneweaponBK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyraccoon View Post
tried the Tula/Wolfs and they have far too many duds in the pkg maybe it's just the lot of them I have ..........

I use CCI's pretty religiously in everything I reload . and just an FYI there is absolutely no difference in fps on the chrono using the Tula or CCI primers in the 22 TCM cases
Thanks Rocky,

It's interesting because I have never tried Tul in Sm Pistol or Sm Rifle but have used them in Large Pistol... out of the 5000 Large pistol I've shot I only ever had two not go off...

It's too bad there is all that silly HAZMAT fee stuff or else I would tell you to sell me a few so I can experiment with them!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-29-2012, 01:43 PM
3kgt2nv 3kgt2nv is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2
who do i have to contact to order the reloading supplies? or do i just mail a check blindly to the fred craig address from the earlier post?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-29-2012, 02:46 PM
rockyraccoon rockyraccoon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gideons Bible
Posts: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3kgt2nv View Post
who do i have to contact to order the reloading supplies? or do i just mail a check blindly to the fred craig address from the earlier post?
see that phone # at the bottom of his address .......call him .......talk to him .....he's a nice guy ...............

but yep send him a letter with what you want for supplies , a money order always gets me my stuff in just shy of two weeks from the time I mail it . Don't forget to add 11 bucks for shipping charges .
__________________
Happiness is a warm gun !

Last edited by rockyraccoon; 11-29-2012 at 02:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-29-2012, 02:51 PM
3kgt2nv 3kgt2nv is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2
got it. on my phone it cut that off the bottom. thanks for the reply i will call him asap.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-02-2012, 01:30 PM
keystoneweaponBK keystoneweaponBK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 156
Hey Rocky, I got to go out and put some handloads to the test, You were right about them being a little under powered, I didn't have a chrono but I also didn't need one to see that 9.4gr of H110 wasn't going to cut it because they didn't always want to extract, some dribbled out of the gun but many didn't eject and just went like 90% back into battery. The good news is that I've got room for more powder and will be doing so.

On to the next charge in mind, the only nice thing is that the brass was right at my feet and I didn't have to go hunting for it :-)
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-02-2012, 03:36 PM
rockyraccoon rockyraccoon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gideons Bible
Posts: 160
I didn't see an improvement until I was over his max charge at 10 .5 grains and was still nowhere near fps of a factory round. 11.2 is getting me at factory velocitys and the action is nice and crisp.
__________________
Happiness is a warm gun !
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-02-2012, 04:19 PM
keystoneweaponBK keystoneweaponBK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyraccoon View Post
I didn't see an improvement until I was over his max charge at 10 .5 grains and was still nowhere near fps of a factory round. 11.2 is getting me at factory velocitys and the action is nice and crisp.
Wow, I'm shocked you had to go to 11.2 but thanks for that data, that will help as I load up the next few batches to test, I'll keep you posted... would you say that you have maintained accuracy with them in the 11.2 "Factory-like" state? Like on par with factory or...?


Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-02-2012, 06:59 PM
rockyraccoon rockyraccoon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gideons Bible
Posts: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by keystoneweaponBK View Post
Wow, I'm shocked you had to go to 11.2 but thanks for that data, that will help as I load up the next few batches to test, I'll keep you posted... would you say that you have maintained accuracy with them in the 11.2 "Factory-like" state? Like on par with factory or...?


Thanks!
the last batch at 11.2 i wasn't shooting at paper , I was ringing a 6 " gong at 25 yards . I was only shooting to chrono them for fps . but if it helps they were all hitting the 6 inch gong .
you will need to work up to it though and watch for pressure on the spent cases. I saw none . you will need to be above 10 before shell cases start to eject like they should .
going out to the 50 yard range tomorrow , will bring camera and some melons or oranges, and see how they do vs the factory stuff
__________________
Happiness is a warm gun !
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-03-2012, 01:48 PM
keystoneweaponBK keystoneweaponBK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 156
Nice Rocky, sounds good, I was wondering are you using your fired brass or using new brass, the reason I ask is because after resizing/depriming my once fired seems to grow from 1.026" to 1.028" and didn't know if you've got any input on this since youve got a head start on this? If you're trimming I didn't know if you knew an appropriate rate to trim, I was going to take like .002" off of them but wondered what you were up to on this.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-03-2012, 04:55 PM
rockyraccoon rockyraccoon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gideons Bible
Posts: 160
re-using fired brass

these cases have been shot 4 times total since new
have trimmed nothing
out of 500 cases 95% of them are at 1.025/1.026 "
a few come in at 1.020/1.021"
and have found one case at 1.030"

To be honest I think they vary that much even when new .
some of the new cases I measured from pulling the bullets on factory rounds are 1.025/1.026
I have also found a couple of cases that the rim was so big in diameter it would'nt fit in the shell holder .

I'm not too concerned about it as long as nothing goes over 1.030 as they head space off the taper and not the case mouth .

Now for some results ...........

11.0 to 11.1 grains H110 with the 40 grain Craig Bullets
45 degree F no wind
1. 2008 fps
2. 1960
3. 1959
4. 1967
5. 1926
6. 1923
7. 1922
8. 1893
9. 1912

High velocity 2008 low velocity 1893
average velocity 1941
extreme spread 115 fps
std. deviation 35 fps

by the numbers it's right there with the "FACTORY ROUND"

heres a pic of the target with 30 holes in it
18 of them are in the center two rings

this was off hand with NO REST at 25-30 yards , it's an 8 inch target
__________________
Happiness is a warm gun !

Last edited by rockyraccoon; 12-03-2012 at 05:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:50 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2011 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved